Electrify America is enraging EV owners

[Bunnylebowski]

Here’s why I would never dream of selling my Lucid in spite of the sometimes frustrating EA charging experience. I was able to drive at 80mph from Providence Rhode Island to the middle of PA starting at 96% SOC and arrived at the charger at 11% SOC. Yes 2/4 chargers were down even though all worked the day before, and yes I had to wait 40 minutes to plug in, but still my car made it farther than any other EV could that you could buy. In retrospect I should have stopped at another charger that was 45 min closer, but the Lucid gave me the ability to choose to go further if I wanted to and have more than one option. This is why I don’t get the OutOfSpec and other complainers who are all like “you can’t road trip a Lucid cuz EA sucks”. Bullshit, I’ve done 24k miles and many road trips without ever being stranded or severely delayed, you just have to plan well. Hopefully one day it will be as convenient and reliable as it is for gasoline but it’s not yet, not even for Tesla where SC have waits plenty of times and you had to drive noisy uncomfortable terrible user interface super glitchy “self-driving” car to get there, rather than the much more elegant and serene Lucid.

Also, if you hate EA, there’s EVGo, Chargepoint, and other options opening up pretty quickly. Some of them are expensive but you were the one who bought an expensive car so don’t act like you can’t afford to pay 0.50/kW though I agree yes that’s more expensive than charging should be.

 

[Ampere]

Consider the Lucid advertising about how fast its cars can charge. . . . It doesn't matter that I don't get 350kw. I'd be perfectly happy with a steady, reliable 150kw. I know the charger says:
"Up to 350kw." I get it. But I'm really tired of charging at less than, usually far less than, 125kw, even with 20 minutes of pre-conditioning. And yes, I do most of my charging at home, but that doesn't help me 175 miles away.

 

[xponents]

Consider the Lucid advertising about how fast its cars can charge. . . . It doesn't matter that I don't get 350kw. I'd be perfectly happy with a steady, reliable 150kw. I know the charger says:
"Up to 350kw." I get it. But I'm really tired of charging at less than, usually far less than, 125kw, even with 20 minutes of pre-conditioning. And yes, I do most of my charging at home, but that doesn't help me 175 miles away.

But your touring DOESNT have 350 kWh charging. And search the charging curve up, that will usually be right!

 

[Bunnylebowski]

150kw EA charger can me 184kw at 10% SOC at 34F exterior temps if the battery is fully preconditioned, which takes 45 min to do. It pretty much can exactly follow the InsideEVs charging curve. I’ve also gotten 301kw at 8% SOC when it was 80F out on at 350kw EA unit in Chicopee Mass. Lucid can do what it advertises, the issue is there are so many variables and yes EA reliability problems that can make it so the Lucid doesn’t do what is advertised. Honestly though if EA just swapped everything out for the newest units things would improve dramatically. I’ve had zero failures on the new ones (the single cable units), and got speeds of 254kw and 245kw in freezing temps on a preconditioned battery at 20% SOC, once in Ohio and once in PA. I’m really not worried about road tripping, you just have to plan wisely. If I were to complain it would be that I have to frequently use the awesome Siri GT Range shortcut @joec created since the car does a bad job of predicting miles remaining based on current efficiency.

 

[scal_air]

Honestly, EA has increased the number of chargers and also increased their reliability. It's just that they can't keep up with the increased demand of new EV sales with "free" charging. It reminds me of freeway construction in Southern California - don't see much relief after the project is completed because of the increased traffic....

If you see a charger that is not working, you really should call to report it. Most of us aren't doing much during the 20-30 minutes that we are charging so why not help out?

 

[segbrk]

For what it’s worth, in the VA/MD area, EA is not nearly as bad as folks here are describing. Yes sometimes stands are broken for months at a time, yes there are far too few.

I keep hearing from people here that EA never gets anywhere near 150kW though. Not true here, there is only one location where I’ve seen charging limited to 60kW or so - which, annoyingly, is the super crowded Tysons mall, the closest EA to the Lucid service center here. I suspect maintenance there is very costly since it’s right at the entrance of an incredibly crowded parking garage, not easy to dig up power lines running to it if that’s part of the problem. Normally I start around 170kW whether it’s a 150kW stand or a 350kW stand, but I’ve seen as high as 220s on the 350kW stands (briefly at low SOC), which is the limit for my Touring.

I’ve had to wait for a charger… behind one other car. That’s the longest line I’ve seen. At more rural stations I’m often the only car there the whole time.

I’m also shocked and jealous of the photos I’ve seen on here of 10-stand stations even if several aren’t working, because the most I think I’ve ever seen here is 4 (also often with one or two not working). Definitely something that needs improvement on this coast.

I do think many of the stations here have been upgraded rather recently though, so I wonder if a number of these issues have already been resolved and it’s just taking longer to roll out on the west coast. I’ve charged outside the EA headquarters here in Reston, VA - I wouldn’t be shocked if they’re starting upgrades closer to home.

 

[HariK]

Here’s why I would never dream of selling my Lucid in spite of the sometimes frustrating EA charging experience. I was able to drive at 80mph from Providence Rhode Island to the middle of PA starting at 96% SOC and arrived at the charger at 11% SOC. Yes 2/4 chargers were down even though all worked the day before, and yes I had to wait 40 minutes to plug in, but still my car madeA it farther than any other EV could that you could buy. In retrospect I should have stopped at another charger that was 45 min closer, but the Lucid gave me the ability to choose to go further if I wanted to and have more than one option. This is why I don’t get the OutOfSpec and other complainers who are all like “you can’t road trip a Lucid cuz EA sucks”. Bullshit, I’ve done 24k miles and many road trips without ever being stranded or severely delayed, you just have to plan well. Hopefully one day it will be as convenient and reliable as it is for gasoline but it’s not yet, not even for Tesla where SC have waits plenty of times and you had to drive noisy uncomfortable terrible user interface super glitchy “self-driving” car to get there, rather than the much more elegant and serene Lucid.

Also, if you hate EA, there’s EVGo, Chargepoint, and other options opening up pretty quickly. Some of them are expensive but you were the one who bought an expensive car so don’t act like you can’t afford to pay 0.50/kW though I agree yes that’s more expensive than charging should be.

And I had charging issue only in Las Vegas (lot of cars and 1hr wait) and just one in a small town near Arches National Park on my 8k mile trip.

 

[no gas]

And I had charging issue only in Las Vegas (lot of cars and 1hr wait) and just one in a small town near Arches National Park on my 8k mile trip.

I'm guessing once a lot of the free charging goes away, most other charges will help reduce wait times.

 

[Haggy]

Also, if you hate EA, there’s EVGo, Chargepoint, and other options opening up pretty quickly. Some of them are expensive but you were the one who bought an expensive car so don’t act like you can’t afford to pay 0.50/kW though I agree yes that’s more expensive than charging should be.

It's not even a question of whether or not you have to pay for it. People who argue that EA is bad so you should get something else such as a Tesla are willing to pay for charging anyway. If you are willing to pay for charging, then just because Lucid might have given you EA charging doesn't mean that you have to use it. It's cheaper to charge at EVGo or somewhere else than to trade in for a Tesla, and then still pay for charging.

 

[pjdcorp]

It's not even a question of whether or not you have to pay for it. People who argue that EA is bad so you should get something else such as a Tesla are willing to pay for charging anyway. If you are willing to pay for charging, then just because Lucid might have given you EA charging doesn't mean that you have to use it. It's cheaper to charge at EVGo or somewhere else than to trade in for a Tesla, and then still pay for charging.

Of course, there are those of us who paid full freight for our Lucids (before all the current "gimmees" (free DDpro etc), & were promised 3 years of free charging, actually expected to get 1) chargers that worked & 2) to not have to pay for charging. Of course, EVGO or others are an option, but we have a contract that is supposed to give us free charging. Should we have to go to an alternative provider because EA works on occasionally??

 

[momo3605]

Of course, there are those of us who paid full freight for our Lucids (before all the current "gimmees" (free DDpro etc), & were promised 3 years of free charging, actually expected to get 1) chargers that worked & 2) to not have to pay for charging. Of course, EVGO or others are an option, but we have a contract that is supposed to give us free charging. Should we have to go to an alternative provider because EA works on occasionally??

Uhh lucid doesn’t own EA…what would you prefer? A 3 year contract with EVGO? They barely have any 350kw chargers. EA is the biggest fast charging provider after Tesla. If EA chargers suck and you were relying on that, you probably shouldn’t have bought the Lucid…

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Of course, there are those of us who paid full freight for our Lucids (before all the current "gimmees" (free DDpro etc), & were promised 3 years of free charging, actually expected to get 1) chargers that worked & 2) to not have to pay for charging. Of course, EVGO or others are an option, but we have a contract that is supposed to give us free charging. Should we have to go to an alternative provider because EA works on occasionally??

I recall a comment from Rawlinson suggesting one of the reasons behind making Lucid have the most range was that while surveys indicated most people are fine with a 300 mile EV, the charging infrastructure wasn’t up to the task and having more range offsets those troubles some. So be happy you have an EV that gives you more freedom of choices than the others, which mostly don’t give you free charging on any network.

 

[pjdcorp]

Uhh lucid doesn’t own EA…what would you prefer? A 3 year contract with EVGO? They barely have any 350kw chargers. EA is the biggest fast charging provider after Tesla. If EA chargers suck and you were relying on that, you probably shouldn’t have bought the Lucid…

You're right, Lucid doesn't own EA. However, does Lucid have an obligation to provide this service (free charging) by selecting a provider capable of providing this service? If not, then isn't promising to provide this service thru EA merely illusory? After a year of owning a Lucid, I know a ton more about the benefits & pitfalls of an EV than I did pre-ownership. But shouldn't the powers that be at Lucid, who presumably have much greater knowledge in this area than a relatively uninformed consumer like me, (& I suggest, many more like me) have some obligation to investigate the ability of the provider to fulfill their obligation?

 

[pjdcorp]

I recall a comment from Rawlinson suggesting one of the reasons behind making Lucid have the most range was that while surveys indicated most people are fine with a 300 mile EV, the charging infrastructure wasn’t up to the task and having more range offsets those troubles some. So be happy you have an EV that gives you more freedom of choices than the others, which mostly don’t give you free charging on any network.

Bunny, I've read a lot of your posts & respect your positions on most. However, on this one I approach the EA question from another perspective. We gave our money to Lucid based on receiving a certain product. In the first 6 months I, like many, had to deal with Lucid's teething pains, very glitchy software, etc. For the most part I was willing to suck that up as part of their learning curve. However, I don't share your view of EA charging as a throw-in on the part of Lucid. Lucid promised "x" & has delivered "y" The "free" charging was part of the contract we all executed. Buyers of Lucids promised the complimentary charging are entitled to charging that works. If we had not been promised complimentary charging, I would not be bitching. But we were given this promise. And I believe Lucid had a responsibility to choose a supplier that could perform this element of the contract. I know I sure knew next to nothing about EA's capabilities, or lack thereof, before actually trying to use this service. Was I wrong to presume that Rawlinson & Co. knew, or should have known better than I? I don't think so.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect a free 3rd party service to be perfect. It would be nice if it was, but even with the middling reliability I’ve still been saved hundreds of dollars if not more by using EA, which yes maybe 20% of the time has been aggravating. I’ve never not been able to charge though, just inconvienced and delayed sometimes. That’s not Lucid’s fault. Even with EA being bad, because there are so many more of them than Chargepoint/EVGo in the Lucid I still use EA mostly on road trips. However when I was in LA and had a Polestar rental, most of my charging was on EVGo because of the lower range and many broken EA chargers. In Colorado in the EV6 I had I used Chargepoint exclusively, which was way slower than advertised. Welcome to reality, many of the things promised to us for money don’t exactly pan out, so if something is free and isn’t super reliable, well it’s annoying but I’ll live with it given the paid options aren’t that much better. I can’t get my contractor to show up and fix my new windows he installed that are leaking, same for the company that installed my Mitsubishi heat pump where one of the units has a bad thermostat. Appointments made, nobody shows up or they try to come when I told them we’re not home. My solar company just did this also after having to fix roof damage they caused. And I’m paying for all that! So if EA only gives me 50kw on a 350kw charger or half the handles are broken and I have to wait 30min to plug in to use their free mediocre service, I’ll live with it cuz at least it’s saving me a decent amount of $ even though yes, it’s irritating.

 

[Adnillien]

You're right, Lucid doesn't own EA. However, does Lucid have an obligation to provide this service (free charging) by selecting a provider capable of providing this service? If not, then isn't promising to provide this service thru EA merely illusory? After a year of owning a Lucid, I know a ton more about the benefits & pitfalls of an EV than I did pre-ownership. But shouldn't the powers that be at Lucid, who presumably have much greater knowledge in this area than a relatively uninformed consumer like me, (& I suggest, many more like me) have some obligation to investigate the ability of the provider to fulfill their obligation?

Unfortunately EA is the best CCS provider available so it is natural that Lucid chose EA. EVGo covers cities but does not enable cross country travel. Chargepoint is hit or miss because the equipment is owned and maintained but individual site owners with Chargepoint handling the billing. Some sites are good, some are not maintained at all. Other players are regional and cannot support a national contract. I am not saying that EA is great, just that they are the best choice out there. I do wish that they would improve their reliability and time to repair.

 

[Snafu]

I've had my AGT for over a year, and I've only needed to use an EA station fewer than a dozen times. I charge at home 99% of the time. Maybe a dozen times I've been out and about and under 50% and figured I was near an EA charger, so why not "top up" (typically at least an hour from home). I will say that there is a marked improvement in the EA charging stations in the places I frequent in NH and CT, meh in MA, but there is also a lot more traffic so I may or may not stop. The earlier comment about having the longer range so I don't NEED to charge away from home as much is exactly why I purchased this car over others (yes, since I don't drive from 100% to 0%, the range is not 500 miles, but the drive is phenomenal too). Non-Tesla charging networks are ALL sub-optimal, but EA had the broader country-wide coverage, even if it is pretty sparse in places, so it would be the logical company to pair. My gripe is that EA was a "penance" to VW, and there should have been conditions to accept their "repayment" based on efficiency and reliability. If they didn't meet them, there should have been government oversight/pressure applied to improve the system or extend/increase their debt owed. It's unknown how much pushback Lucid (and other EV companies have applied).

That said, I bought a start-up and am impressed with Lucid's progress and customer service. Perhaps my standards may not be as exacting as others and my reliance on wide-ranging entertainment options while driving are not as varied, but when driving they don't seem so vital. The car has itself has been solid. (Android user here, FYI.)

 

[DeaneG]

FWIW in my experience, EA reliability was objectively better until about two years ago. It went through a dip since, and appears to be getting better again as more funds are allocated to maintenance, and as newer chargers with better remote management capabilities have replaced older units. EA is currently on their fourth iteration of charging stands.

I'm no fan, but the more I read about the situation, the more I think that EA's federal oversight was similarly unprepared for the task, and failed to mandate remote monitoring by EA, to establish adequate uptime metrics, and to allocate a portion of the funds to EA for site maintenance. Initially the entire emphasis was on getting chargers installed, with insufficient regulation and allocated resources to keep them running.

 

[Adnillien]

FWIW in my experience, EA reliability was objectively better until about two years ago. It went through a dip since, and appears to be getting better again as more funds are allocated to maintenance, and as newer chargers with better remote management capabilities have replaced older units. EA is currently on their fourth iteration of charging stands.

I think EA made some design choices early on that really hurt their reliability and ability to maintain sites. Unfortunately, I think their site infrastructure needs a major rework so that half of the chargers can remain online during repairs and upgrades. These types of architecture choices early on are tough to overcome. I still don't think that EA understands the need to keep critical sites partially open during upgrades.

 

[DeaneG]

...I still don't think that EA understands the need to keep critical sites partially open during upgrades.

EA will even shut down two adjacent entire locations at a time for upgrade, leaving (for me) a 100-mile charging gap in the desert. EA did this without warning two days before a trip I'd carefully planned.