DreamDrive Megathread

[Volund]

I agree that Waymo has a much better track record than Tesla on this. However, isn't the Waymo system usable right now only on a few short routes that are thoroughly mapped digitally? Following a digitally-mapped path is, to me, the software equivalent of following a physical rail track.

I think true autonomous driving -- the kind that will keep people with limited abilities fully mobile and independent -- means a vehicle that can drive itself on any road to any destination in the same circumstances that a human driver could. And it's that system that I believe is a decade or more away.

I think the point of it is to perfect the service at least to a major city, and keep it driverless, then they'll expand outwards. For example, Phoenix doesn't have a lot of weather 'problems' like other states and cities with snow, or hail storms, etc...
Keeping it simple and expanding from there.
There was an announcement last year that they're going to NYC next, but I haven't seen any source that says that they are 'digitally mapped' and not actually navigating traffic or routing with their sensors. In fact, they themselves have said that where maps like Google Maps fail, they can navigate it effortlessly because of their 'mapping technology' which doesn't mean it's pre-mapped or some type of handicapped or assistive technology that takes away from its autonomous driving feats.

 

[EricM]

I’m an FSD beta user in my Tesla. I test its capabilities all the time in a variety of challenging situations. While quite impressive, I expect we’re still a long ways off from true autonomy due to the inability to handle one particular use case: road debris.

I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve had to swerve for small bits of metal, truck tire carcasses and small roadkill. Perhaps someday when airless tires are mainstream and the risk of flats is diminished. Until then, I remain vigilant.

 

[joec]

I’m an FSD beta user in my Tesla. I test its capabilities all the time in a variety of challenging situations. While quite impressive, I expect we’re still a long ways off from true autonomy due to the inability to handle one particular use case: road debris.

I’ve lost track of how many times I’ve had to swerve for small bits of metal, truck tire carcasses and small roadkill. Perhaps someday when airless tires are mainstream and the risk of flats is diminished. Until then, I remain vigilant.

Not to mention speed bumps. My Model 3 still has no idea what they are, and happily drives at full speed over them.

 

[sloth7]

@mcr16
Everybody ordering a Touring or Pure in the near future needs clarity on this. There are some DA's telling customers that DDPro isn't needed for Highway Assist or Traffic Jam Assist. The article from the Lucid site says the same.

Media Room

www.lucidmotors.com

Then there are DA's telling customers that DDPro is needed for those features, including mine. Someone needs to clarify things or I can smell lawsuits when someone is told a feature is included, ordered the car, then it's not there.

On Shuasha's question: Right now I'm finalizing my Touring order. Has anybody on this forum taken delivery of a car with just DD (not DD Pro)? If so, how are the ADAS featured compared to, say, current Tesla Autopilot?

What I gather from this forum is that it has adaptive cruise control but not the lane centering. Can anybody owning a "just DD" car confirm where it's at today?

I know things will get better over time but I want to be realistic about where things stand today. The Autopilot on Tesla MS has changed very little since I bought it 8 years ago... so I want to go in with very low expectations about the rate of change for new ADAS features.

 

[Ned]

I just wanna be able to sleep in the freeway... Then I'll travel a ton more. That will never be allowed though

Already done. See this:

 

[joec]

On Shuasha's question: Right now I'm finalizing my Touring order. Has anybody on this forum taken delivery of a car with just DD (not DD Pro)? If so, how are the ADAS featured compared to, say, current Tesla Autopilot?

What I gather from this forum is that it has adaptive cruise control but not the lane centering. Can anybody owning a "just DD" car confirm where it's at today?

I know things will get better over time but I want to be realistic about where things stand today. The Autopilot on Tesla MS has changed very little since I bought it 8 years ago... so I want to go in with very low expectations about the rate of change for new ADAS features.

No Touring cars have been delivered yet. Therefore, no DDrive only cars have been delivered.

Dream Drive Pro comes standard on all GT, GT-P, and Dream edition cars.

 

[afk]

Data point here — I had asked my sales advisor whether basic Dream Drive includes adaptive cruise with lane centering, and received a thorough explanation via voicemail.

He said their original intent (as explained in that 2020-vintage post on Lucid’s website) was to include adaptive cruise with lane centering (Highway Assist) in basic Dream Drive. They had a vendor (rumor mill says Nvidia?) to create that suite of features, but ultimately they weren’t able to deliver features with quality up to Lucid’s standards, so Lucid pivoted and had to do it in-house, which was considerably more expensive. As a result, standard Dream Drive will not include Highway Assist.

Feels like a bit of a bait-and-switch, and is pretty shocking that a feature that’s standard in a $20k Corolla is a 5-figure upgrade on a $100k+ car (at today’s prices). I shared that feedback in no uncertain terms and asked him to run it up the food chain, but I’m not holding my breath for a change of heart — so sounds like us Touring folks are drawing somewhat of a short straw on that front.

 

[Shuasha]

Well, at least this mostly came out before we were able to order Touring and Pure. If I had ordered and received my Touring assuming lane centering was part of it Dreamdrive, then was told later that it wasn't, I would be VERY mad. That's lawsuit territory.

 

[afk]

The question for me, then, is what happens to those of us who have ordered our Tourings (had our deposit go nonrefundable) expecting lane centering to be part of the deal. I’m not about to pay another $9k for a feature that’s standard on a Corolla, and I’d literally rather keep my current car (with this tech) than drive a Lucid without it. It’s a dealbreaker for me.

I’m sure this doesn’t rise to the level of breach of contract on Lucid’s part, but is it realistic that this is enough of a bait-and-switch that we can get our deposits back if we cancel, even if we’ve already ordered (although I haven’t submitted my finalized spec yet)?

 

[joec]

The question for me, then, is what happens to those of us who have ordered our Tourings (had our deposit go nonrefundable) expecting lane centering to be part of the deal. I’m not about to pay another $9k for a feature that’s standard on a Corolla, and I’d literally rather keep my current car (with this tech) than drive a Lucid without it. It’s a dealbreaker for me.

I’m sure this doesn’t rise to the level of breach of contract on Lucid’s part, but is it realistic that this is enough of a bait-and-switch that we can get our deposits back if we cancel, even if we’ve already ordered (although I haven’t submitted my finalized spec yet)?

My guess is if you really wanted to cancel, and squawked enough about it, they would give you your money back.

 

[Shuasha]

The question for me, then, is what happens to those of us who have ordered our Tourings (had our deposit go nonrefundable) expecting lane centering to be part of the deal. I’m not about to pay another $9k for a feature that’s standard on a Corolla, and I’d literally rather keep my current car (with this tech) than drive a Lucid without it. It’s a dealbreaker for me.

I’m sure this doesn’t rise to the level of breach of contract on Lucid’s part, but is it realistic that this is enough of a bait-and-switch that we can get our deposits back if we cancel, even if we’ve already ordered (although I haven’t submitted my finalized spec yet)?

I would imagine they would return your deposit for both PR and "cost of litigation" reasons if you pushed it.

 

[Drendino]

The question for me, then, is what happens to those of us who have ordered our Tourings (had our deposit go nonrefundable) expecting lane centering to be part of the deal. I’m not about to pay another $9k for a feature that’s standard on a Corolla, and I’d literally rather keep my current car (with this tech) than drive a Lucid without it. It’s a dealbreaker for me.

I’m sure this doesn’t rise to the level of breach of contract on Lucid’s part, but is it realistic that this is enough of a bait-and-switch that we can get our deposits back if we cancel, even if we’ve already ordered (although I haven’t submitted my finalized spec yet)?

I totally understand the sentiment and would probably feel the same if I was in your situation. However, Lucid’s DDP software is fundamentally different than it is in a Corolla and Tesla, which only use cameras. While lane centering may be roughly the same at this point, the use of LiDAR, in addition to cameras and radar will eventually transform the experience and will provide the driver with a more confident hands free experience than a car that only relies on cameras.

This software is a major reason why I purchased the car and I think I would have eventually regretted not getting it once Lucid rolls out more industry changing Dream Drive OTAs. I talked my folks into getting a GT because they are up there in age and I believe that this software will eventually keep them on the road longer. I might be wrong, but that’s my thinking.

 

[afk]

I totally understand the sentiment and would probably feel the same if I was in your situation. However, Lucid’s DDP software is fundamentally different than it is in a Corolla and Tesla, which only use cameras. While lane centering may be roughly the same at this point, the use of LiDAR, in addition to cameras and radar will eventually transform the experience and will provide the driver with a more confident hands free experience than a car that only relies on cameras.

This software is a major reason why I purchased the car and I think I would have eventually regretted not getting it once Lucid rolls out more industry changing Dream Drive OTAs. I talked my folks into getting a GT because they are up there in age and I believe that this software will eventually keep them on the road longer. I might be wrong, but that’s my thinking.

Totally fair. I don’t personally have a need for a true hands-free driving experience most of the time — I love driving! Where I’d see value is during my daily commute on the highway, and that’s where I feel Lucid could’ve found a middle ground, much like how Audi/Mercedes/BMW have — you can pay an extra $1.7-$2k on something like an RS7 to get a couple of radars in your grille and get adaptive cruise/lane centering/etc.

It wouldn’t rub me the wrong way quite so much if (a) they hadn’t promised Highway Assist as part of standard Dream Drive (promises they still have up on their website) when I first reserved my car, or (b) if there was a < $10k olive branch allowing customers to spec just Highway Assist style features (without the full “future L3” suite), in line with offerings from other higher-end manufacturers.

 

[changinator]

Totally fair. I don’t personally have a need for a true hands-free driving experience most of the time — I love driving! Where I’d see value is during my daily commute on the highway, and that’s where I feel Lucid could’ve found a middle ground, much like how Audi/Mercedes/BMW have — you can pay an extra $1.7-$2k on something like an RS7 to get a couple of radars in your grille and get adaptive cruise/lane centering/etc.

It wouldn’t rub me the wrong way quite so much if (a) they hadn’t promised Highway Assist as part of standard Dream Drive (promises they still have up on their website) when I first reserved my car, or (b) if there was a < $10k olive branch allowing customers to spec just Highway Assist style features (without the full “future L3” suite), in line with offerings from other higher-end manufacturers.

they also promised highway assist in regular Dream Drive as recent as Oct 13, 2022 UX 2.0 rollout announcement and their reps at the time were reiterating this, but now they are saying its only on DDP

 

[joec]

they also promised highway assist in regular Dream Drive as recent as Oct 13, 2022 UX 2.0 rollout announcement and their reps at the time were reiterating this, but now they are saying its only on DDP

I don't read that particular page as promising anything, per se. Highway Assist is mentioned under "DreamDrive AND Advanced Driver Assistance Systems refinements." Would it be clearer if they had said "Dream Drive Pro refinements?" Sure. But the bullet point for HIghway Assist falls firmly under "Advanced Driver Assistance Systems."

Basically, they are saying "Here's what 2.0 brings to Lucid's suite of ADAS capabilities." They aren't claiming all cars ship with all of those enhancements.

If they had a bullet point that read "Massaging seats are now even better" that wouldn't mean that they are now promising all cars have massaging seats.

Dream Drive is the umbrella brand name for all of Lucid's ADAS stuff. It comes in two flavors. They aren't making a distinction between the two here, because they aren't selling anything here. They are just outlining the changes in 2.0

They haven't suggested Dream Drive (non pro) would have Highway Assist since their press release of October 2021. And if you want to get lawyers involved, they'd tell you the whole "Forward looking statements" clause on that press release covers them on the change.

I don't understand why folks want to assume malice here, when it's much more likely a case of Lucid thinking one thing would be doable, and then realizing otherwise when they actually went about implementing it. Happens in the tech world several times a day.

They have no interest in angering customers, and benefit far less from the extra $9k they get from a handful of customers vs. the bad taste they leave in the mouths of every other customer. They would not have made this change lightly, in other words. It's clearly not ideal for anyone. But they are clearly listening to their engineering team, which is actually a good sign.

Doesn't mean Dream Drive will never have any form of Highway Assist, either. Just that Lucid doesn't feel cars without that extra hardware are going to work well given the current implementation.

The idea with constantly updating systems is that they get more capable over time. I fully expect Lucid to be refining both Dream Drive and Dream Drive pro for many years to come.

 

[afk]

I don't read that particular page as promising anything, per se. Highway Assist is mentioned under "DreamDrive AND Advanced Driver Assistance Systems refinements." Would it be clearer if they had said "Dream Drive Pro refinements?" Sure. But the bullet point for HIghway Assist falls firmly under "Advanced Driver Assistance Systems."

Basically, they are saying "Here's what 2.0 brings to Lucid's suite of ADAS capabilities." They aren't claiming all cars ship with all of those enhancements.

If they had a bullet point that read "Massaging seats are now even better" that wouldn't mean that they are now promising all cars have massaging seats.

Dream Drive is the umbrella brand name for all of Lucid's ADAS stuff. It comes in two flavors. They aren't making a distinction between the two here, because they aren't selling anything here. They are just outlining the changes in 2.0

They haven't suggested Dream Drive (non pro) would have Highway Assist since their press release of October 2021. And if you want to get lawyers involved, they'd tell you the whole "Forward looking statements" clause on that press release covers them on the change.

I don't understand why folks want to assume malice here, when it's much more likely a case of Lucid thinking one thing would be doable, and then realizing otherwise when they actually went about implementing it. Happens in the tech world several times a day.

They have no interest in angering customers, and benefit far less from the extra $9k they get from a handful of customers vs. the bad taste they leave in the mouths of every other customer. They would not have made this change lightly, in other words. It's clearly not ideal for anyone. But they are clearly listening to their engineering team, which is actually a good sign.

Doesn't mean Dream Drive will never have any form of Highway Assist, either. Just that Lucid doesn't feel cars without that extra hardware are going to work well given the current implementation.

The idea with constantly updating systems is that they get more capable over time. I fully expect Lucid to be refining both Dream Drive and Dream Drive pro for many years to come.

All super valid points — I certainly don’t mean to imply malicious intent on Lucid’s behalf! I’m pleased they went the extra mile to make sure the feature suite was up to snuff, but clearly there are several of us who were at least led to the wrong conclusion due to the ambiguous use of “Dream Drive” nomenclature in their press releases (and the apparent outright claim by some reps that standard DD would include HA, seemingly as recently as a month ago).

Ordered the car because I’m a big believer in the team, the tech, and the mission — and the car is amazing as it is (and it’ll only get better). Desperately want to see Lucid do well. But the expectations-vs-reality delta on this one element is important, especially when they’re trying to build trust as a new make.

 

[sloth7]

OK, I spoke with the Lucid sales advisor and got some more color consistent with the above posts:

• Dream Drive - today it only does adaptive CC, some day it might do lane centering or other features.
• Dream Drive Pro - Highway Assist (adaptive CC + lane centering) but it "works better" than other OEMs versions of these futures thanks to the Lidar and other hardware. In the future will add more features.

Can anybody with a current Lucid confirm that second point... Is the current DDP worse / equal / better versus Tesla autopilot at the basic driving within a lane on the highway (level 2 automation)?

I understand that things improve over time, I'm just looking for where the starting point is today.

 

[changinator]

I don't read that particular page as promising anything, per se. Highway Assist is mentioned under "DreamDrive AND Advanced Driver Assistance Systems refinements." Would it be clearer if they had said "Dream Drive Pro refinements?" Sure. But the bullet point for HIghway Assist falls firmly under "Advanced Driver Assistance Systems."

Basically, they are saying "Here's what 2.0 brings to Lucid's suite of ADAS capabilities." They aren't claiming all cars ship with all of those enhancements.

If they had a bullet point that read "Massaging seats are now even better" that wouldn't mean that they are now promising all cars have massaging seats.

Dream Drive is the umbrella brand name for all of Lucid's ADAS stuff. It comes in two flavors. They aren't making a distinction between the two here, because they aren't selling anything here. They are just outlining the changes in 2.0

They haven't suggested Dream Drive (non pro) would have Highway Assist since their press release of October 2021. And if you want to get lawyers involved, they'd tell you the whole "Forward looking statements" clause on that press release covers them on the change.

I don't understand why folks want to assume malice here, when it's much more likely a case of Lucid thinking one thing would be doable, and then realizing otherwise when they actually went about implementing it. Happens in the tech world several times a day.

They have no interest in angering customers, and benefit far less from the extra $9k they get from a handful of customers vs. the bad taste they leave in the mouths of every other customer. They would not have made this change lightly, in other words. It's clearly not ideal for anyone. But they are clearly listening to their engineering team, which is actually a good sign.

Doesn't mean Dream Drive will never have any form of Highway Assist, either. Just that Lucid doesn't feel cars without that extra hardware are going to work well given the current implementation.

The idea with constantly updating systems is that they get more capable over time. I fully expect Lucid to be refining both Dream Drive and Dream Drive pro for many years to come.

why are you implying that I or some other folks here are assuming malice? no one was assuming malice. I am just stating that it was obviously confusing because many members here have heard from multiple Lucid reps following the UX 2.0 announcement that Highway Assist was a regular Dream Drive function at that point, with some reps citing the recent UX 2.0 announcement as evidence. it wasn't until later that they flipped the script and added Highway Assist onto the configurator for DDP (which didn't say that before).

 

[changinator]

OK, I spoke with the Lucid sales advisor and got some more color consistent with the above posts:

• Dream Drive - today it only does adaptive CC, some day it might do lane centering or other features.
• Dream Drive Pro - Highway Assist (adaptive CC + lane centering) but it "works better" than other OEMs versions of these futures thanks to the Lidar and other hardware. In the future will add more features.

Can anybody with a current Lucid confirm that second point... Is the current DDP worse / equal / better versus Tesla autopilot at the basic driving within a lane on the highway (level 2 automation)?

I understand that things improve over time, I'm just looking for where the starting point is today.

better than Teslas on highway, Tesla sometimes sees ghosts on the freeway and freaks out for a sec by phantom breaking a bit

 

[th14]

OK, I spoke with the Lucid sales advisor and got some more color consistent with the above posts:

• Dream Drive - today it only does adaptive CC, some day it might do lane centering or other features.
• Dream Drive Pro - Highway Assist (adaptive CC + lane centering) but it "works better" than other OEMs versions of these futures thanks to the Lidar and other hardware. In the future will add more features.

Can anybody with a current Lucid confirm that second point... Is the current DDP worse / equal / better versus Tesla autopilot at the basic driving within a lane on the highway (level 2 automation)?

I understand that things improve over time, I'm just looking for where the starting point is today.

Here's my review of Highway Assist in its current form with the 0.18 software.

2.0.18 - Highway Assist Experiences

Sounds like a lot of us are finally getting 2.0.18 which includes our first taste of Highway Assist. Starting this thread so people can share their experiences specific to this build. For the general public, this is the only build with HA. I don't know how long we'll be on this version. I know...

lucidowners.com