DreamDrive Megathread

[hydbob]

DreamDrive will include Highway Assist and Traffic Jam Assist. Highway Assist is lane centering, adaptive cruise control, steering, on highways (GPS-controlled). Off highways, Adaptive Cruise Control is available, but you are responsible for steering. None of this is hands free, and you will be warned if your hands are not on the wheel for six seconds or longer (sometimes it may take a few extra seconds, but six seconds is the intent). If you continue to not put your hands on the wheel, the system will assume you are asleep or dying, and come to a slow in-lane stop, open the doors, and turn on the flashers, in hopes that someone will help you. Please note: in-lane stops are illegal in many places, and if you are not in dire danger, you may be ticketed or prosecuted for doing so. So, in brief: with Highway Assist, you are expected to maintain control of the vehicle at all times, and take over if necessary.

DD Pro includes additional hardware (LiDAR) built into the car, and thus is not a software-only option. The first announced feature of DD Pro is Highway Pilot which will be true handsfree driving on highways. It does not exist yet and no announcements have been made as to a release date yet. Additionally, the expectation is that over time Lucid may release city driving assistance as well, but no announcement has been made about that. The additional cameras, sensors, and computing power do enable things like greater granularity through LiDAR and an increased experience with Highway Assist as a result, but none have been released yet; largely, we assume, because no cars without LiDAR have been produced yet. It remains to be seen precisely how DD Pro highway assist features will differ, but the media release does specify “For vehicles equipped with DreamDrive Pro, further functions for Highway Assist are already in development.”

You can find more information here: https://www.lucidmotors.com/media-room/dreamdrive-advanced-driver-assistance-platform

 

[windscar911]

If you continue to not put your hands on the wheel, the system will assume you are asleep or dying

dying -> incapacitated for...you know.. less serious messaging

 

[borski]

dying -> incapacitated for...you know.. less serious messaging

Touché

 

[noobzilla]

I just wanna be able to sleep in the freeway... Then I'll travel a ton more. That will never be allowed though

 

[hmp10]

I just wanna be able to sleep in the freeway... Then I'll travel a ton more. That will never be allowed though

What?! Musk says Tesla FSD will allow you to do it starting next week. You can trust him.

 

[OCDC]

Touché

I see what you did there...

 

[hellolucid]

The highway assist is pretty cool. It did restart from a complete stop without any input from me. Nice to have feature in a stop and go traffic.

 

[noobzilla]

What?! Musk says Tesla FSD will allow you to do it starting next week. You can trust him.

I trust Musk but I don't trust the popo's! I might wake up in jail!

Jokes aside, I've been thinking what I would miss out by opting out of DDPro. For me personally "FSD" is pointless if I still have to pay attention to the. That will be more stress for me switching my attention back and forth. Perhaps I'm imagining the use incorrectly? I should be able to use my phone reading and playing games or do I still need my hands on the wheel and look at the road majority of the time since the car will alert me if Im not paying attention?

I could see the value of safety features ie driver falling asleep and the car avoiding crash, but to go from point A to point B then I dont think DDPro will be sufficient to be legally approved for full self drive. If it does it will be more than a decade from now I'm assuming. How are people planning to use this? Would you nap on a long freeway trip? Be on the phone and occasionally look at the road?

 

[joec]

I trust Musk but I don't trust the popo's! I might wake up in jail!

Jokes aside, I've been thinking what I would miss out by opting out of DDPro. For me personally "FSD" is pointless if I still have to pay attention to the. That will be more stress for me switching my attention back and forth. Perhaps I'm imagining the use incorrectly? I should be able to use my phone reading and playing games or do I still need my hands on the wheel and look at the road majority of the time since the car will alert me if Im not paying attention?

I could see the value of safety features ie driver falling asleep and the car avoiding crash, but to go from point A to point B then I dont think DDPro will be sufficient to be legally approved for full self drive. If it does it will be more than a decade from now I'm assuming. How are people planning to use this? Would you nap on a long freeway trip? Be on the phone and occasionally look at the road?

No one is going to have a system where you can be playing video games while the car drives you around. Not for at least another decade. Anyone trying to say otherwise is dreaming.

If you really want that, take an Uber.

All "autonomous" driving features are basically stuck at level 2 right now. Which means you babysit a crappy teenage driver, taking over as the car make numerous mistakes, and the company selling you the autonomous feature collects the corrections you make and benefits from your free labor.

Some people find on long road trips it's nice not to have to keep steering, or to not have their foot on the accelerator. That can get tiring after several hours. Highway assist is good for that sort of thing. But you still have to pay attention and be ready to take over. It's a convenience feature. Nothing more.

People talk about these systems being helpful if you've had one too many drinks or are tired, but that's ridiculous. If you're drunk or tired, you will be in no condition to take over when the car does something stupid. Which still happens quite a lot, even on the best systems. Any cop catching you driving drunk in a Tesla will arrest you just the same. For good reason. A tired or drunk person is more likely to get into a battle with the car than be prevented from any sort of accident.

One area where Lucid will be "catching up" to what Tesla is offering now will be to have the car change lanes for you (which is terrible right now in the Tesla system, but it could be done right) and to have it navigate you to the correct highway exits and such. That will be coming in DDPro at some point. Given how fast they got Highway Assist going, and the fact that they are sharing data with Nvidia, that could be here as soon as next year. Personally, I don't really see the benefits of the car steering me to the exits, but if you're the sort of person who tends to miss your exit, I guess that's helpful?

Any sort of automated city street driving I consider still in its infancy at this point. FSD is supposed to be the "best" at it, and I haven't been able to get it to drive me to the neighborhood hardware store without having to take over at least three times. I have no idea why anyone would use that feature in its current state. It's way more exhausting than just driving yourself.

So if all of this sounds like way more trouble than its worth, you probably aren't a good candidate for DDPro. Or any autonomous system. At least not anytime soon.

 

[Shuasha]

@mcr16
Everybody ordering a Touring or Pure in the near future needs clarity on this. There are some DA's telling customers that DDPro isn't needed for Highway Assist or Traffic Jam Assist. The article from the Lucid site says the same.

Media Room

www.lucidmotors.com

Then there are DA's telling customers that DDPro is needed for those features, including mine. Someone needs to clarify things or I can smell lawsuits when someone is told a feature is included, ordered the car, then it's not there.

 

[Crdgk]

I trust Musk but I don't trust the popo's! I might wake up in jail!

Jokes aside, I've been thinking what I would miss out by opting out of DDPro. For me personally "FSD" is pointless if I still have to pay attention to the. That will be more stress for me switching my attention back and forth. Perhaps I'm imagining the use incorrectly? I should be able to use my phone reading and playing games or do I still need my hands on the wheel and look at the road majority of the time since the car will alert me if Im not paying attention?

I could see the value of safety features ie driver falling asleep and the car avoiding crash, but to go from point A to point B then I dont think DDPro will be sufficient to be legally approved for full self drive. If it does it will be more than a decade from now I'm assuming. How are people planning to use this? Would you nap on a long freeway trip? Be on the phone and occasionally look at the road?

Main causes of death from vehicle where I live with are falling asleep in the car and alcohol on 2 lane highway roads. Both would be far less with an active system like Highway Assist universally available. It would prevent the swerving that causes both pedestrian and vehicle deaths on our roads. Just keeping a hand on steering wheel is not a big imposition unless you are trying to make youtube/tiktok videos to show you dont have to. If you live in CA or AZ and use the highway to go to grocery store, maybe its useless, don't know. But in many places lives will be saved. I wonder what defensive motion this will take as a head on approaches? Car already will stop you completely if you approach another vehicle too fast.

 

[joec]

Main causes of death from vehicle where I live with are falling asleep in the car and alcohol on 2 lane highway roads. Both would be far less with an active system like Highway Assist universally available. It would prevent the swerving that causes both pedestrian and vehicle deaths on our roads. Just keeping a hand on steering wheel is not a big imposition unless you are trying to make youtube/tiktok videos to show you dont have to. If you live in CA or AZ and use the highway to go to grocery store, maybe its useless, don't know. But in many places lives will be saved. I wonder what defensive motion this will take as a head on approaches? Car already will stop you completely if you approach another vehicle too fast.

I think at some point studies will be done on this to verify my take. But my hypothesis is having an automated system might help in certain limited circumstances if you're tired or drunk. But just as often as not, it'll cause more accidents, not fewer.

Anyone who has driven with these features in their current state knows they need to be constantly monitored, as they make serious mistakes on a regular basis. My Tesla has actively tried to steer into cyclists in bike lanes, for instance. It also brakes for no reason on highways quite often. Several owners have driven straight into dividers because they were playing video games while the car went off the rails for no apparent reason.

If you're not alert enough to drive, you aren't alert enough to react to autonomous system failures such as these. Worse, if you're sleepy or otherwise incapacitated, you are likely to not fully understand the car's defensive maneuvering and attempt to wrestle control from the car, resulting in far worse swerving.

Considering this an advancement in safety is ludicrous to me.

Take a cab if you're drunk or tired. Your car won't make up for your poor judgment.

 

[TCGT]

No one is going to have a system where you can be playing video games while the car drives you around. Not for at least another decade. Anyone trying to say otherwise is dreaming.

If you really want that, take an Uber.

All "autonomous" driving features are basically stuck at level 2 right now. Which means you babysit a crappy teenage driver, taking over as the car make numerous mistakes, and the company selling you the autonomous feature collects the corrections you make and benefits from your free labor.

Some people find on long road trips it's nice not to have to keep steering, or to not have their foot on the accelerator. That can get tiring after several hours. Highway assist is good for that sort of thing. But you still have to pay attention and be ready to take over. It's a convenience feature. Nothing more.

People talk about these systems being helpful if you've had one too many drinks or are tired, but that's ridiculous. If you're drunk or tired, you will be in no condition to take over when the car does something stupid. Which still happens quite a lot, even on the best systems. Any cop catching you driving drunk in a Tesla will arrest you just the same. For good reason. A tired or drunk person is more likely to get into a battle with the car than be prevented from any sort of accident.

One area where Lucid will be "catching up" to what Tesla is offering now will be to have the car change lanes for you (which is terrible right now in the Tesla system, but it could be done right) and to have it navigate you to the correct highway exits and such. That will be coming in DDPro at some point. Given how fast they got Highway Assist going, and the fact that they are sharing data with Nvidia, that could be here as soon as next year. Personally, I don't really see the benefits of the car steering me to the exits, but if you're the sort of person who tends to miss your exit, I guess that's helpful?

Any sort of automated city street driving I consider still in its infancy at this point. FSD is supposed to be the "best" at it, and I haven't been able to get it to drive me to the neighborhood hardware store without having to take over at least three times. I have no idea why anyone would use that feature in its current state. It's way more exhausting than just driving yourself.

So if all of this sounds like way more trouble than its worth, you probably aren't a good candidate for DDPro. Or any autonomous system. At least not anytime soon.

I think you nailed the essential misunderstandings people have about "autonomous driving", and this deserves to be bumped so people read it again. The usefulness of "Highway assist" is, for me, pretty much only on a long road trip, and certainly not because I'm unable to manage driving on my own. I also wouldn't want to drive in such an unaware manner that my car is exiting the freeway without my direction. At some point in the future, maybe the computers will have the capacity to be trusted, but for now they're no where close.

 

[Steveinarizona]

I think at some point studies will be done on this to verify my take. But my hypothesis is having an automated system might help in certain limited circumstances if you're tired or drunk. But just as often as not, it'll cause more accidents, not fewer.

Anyone who has driven with these features in their current state knows they need to be constantly monitored, as they make serious mistakes on a regular basis. My Tesla has actively tried to steer into cyclists in bike lanes, for instance. It also brakes for no reason on highways quite often. Several owners have driven straight into dividers because they were playing video games while the car went off the rails for no apparent reason.

If you're not alert enough to drive, you aren't alert enough to react to autonomous system failures such as these. Worse, if you're sleepy or otherwise incapacitated, you are likely to not fully understand the car's defensive maneuvering and attempt to wrestle control from the car, resulting in far worse swerving.

Considering this an advancement in safety is ludicrous to me.

Take a cab if you're drunk or tired. Your car won't make up for your poor judgment.

I only partly agree. Where I live I am one house off another street (perpendicular to mine). The house to the North of me has its backyard facing me so I have a block wall all the way tot he sidewalk. On the other side of that house is a street. I can't see a car waiting at the corner because of the block wall. I back out carefully but some a car pulls out from that street into my street and hits the gas. It is good to have a warning as I have to watch both sides of the street for traffic.

 

[TRJ_Lucid45]

DreamDrive will include Highway Assist and Traffic Jam Assist. Highway Assist is lane centering, adaptive cruise control, steering, on highways (GPS-controlled). Off highways, Adaptive Cruise Control is available, but you are responsible for steering. None of this is hands free, and you will be warned if your hands are not on the wheel for six seconds or longer (sometimes it may take a few extra seconds, but six seconds is the intent). If you continue to not put your hands on the wheel, the system will assume you are asleep or dying, and come to a slow in-lane stop, open the doors, and turn on the flashers, in hopes that someone will help you. Please note: in-lane stops are illegal in many places, and if you are not in dire danger, you may be ticketed or prosecuted for doing so. So, in brief: with Highway Assist, you are expected to maintain control of the vehicle at all times, and take over if necessary.

DD Pro includes additional hardware (LiDAR) built into the car, and thus is not a software-only option. The first announced feature of DD Pro is Highway Pilot which will be true handsfree driving on highways. It does not exist yet and no announcements have been made as to a release date yet. Additionally, the expectation is that over time Lucid may release city driving assistance as well, but no announcement has been made about that. The additional cameras, sensors, and computing power do enable things like greater granularity through LiDAR and an increased experience with Highway Assist as a result, but none have been released yet; largely, we assume, because no cars without LiDAR have been produced yet. It remains to be seen precisely how DD Pro highway assist features will differ, but the media release does specify “For vehicles equipped with DreamDrive Pro, further functions for Highway Assist are already in development.”

You can find more information here: https://www.lucidmotors.com/media-room/dreamdrive-advanced-driver-assistance-platform

Lucid is taking the right approach. I don't care what Tesla says, but their system is not an Autopilot, it is stricly an Driver Assist system and they should not be allowed to call it an Autopilot System. Because of the name, too many idots are treating it as a self-driving system and putting other drivers at risk!! Especially now that they only using cameras.

 

[hmp10]

I don't care what Tesla says, but their system is not an Autopilot, it is stricly an Driver Assist system and they should not be allowed to call it an Autopilot System. Because of the name, too many idots are treating it as a self-driving system and putting other drivers at risk!! Especially now that they only using cameras.

Oh, it's much worse than that. They are calling their system "Full Self Driving" and charging $15,000 extra for it, even though it has no additional hardware over the base car. It's a marketing scam pure and simple. Maybe one day they'll get there, but they are far, far from it right now.

 

[hmp10]

I only partly agree. Where I live I am one house off another street (perpendicular to mine). The house to the North of me has its backyard facing me so I have a block wall all the way tot he sidewalk. On the other side of that house is a street. I can't see a car waiting at the corner because of the block wall. I back out carefully but some a car pulls out from that street into my street and hits the gas. It is good to have a warning as I have to watch both sides of the street for traffic.

I don't think anyone here is objecting to warning and even some intervention systems, especially for low-speed situations such as you describe. I think the concern is more about systems that claim an ability safely to take over driving tasks on the road.

As the primitive single-camera early Autopilot system in our 2015 Model S showed, these systems are already able to handle steering, acceleration, and braking for long stretches in a narrow range of optimal traffic conditions, provided the driver is constantly vigilant and able to take over immediately.

However, that system is almost ancient in terms of software development -- with several of its features since abandoned in the name of safety. Yet now, seven years later and despite all Musk's cynical hype, there is still no driver-assistance system on the market that can be operated safely with any lapse of full attention from the driver.

Instead of the the past several years proving Musk's contention that "full self driving" is just months away, the passing of time has instead proved Rawlinson's contention that true self-driving systems are at least a decade away by the most optimistic and realistic estimates.

 

[Volund]

I think at some point studies will be done on this to verify my take. But my hypothesis is having an automated system might help in certain limited circumstances if you're tired or drunk. But just as often as not, it'll cause more accidents, not fewer.

Anyone who has driven with these features in their current state knows they need to be constantly monitored, as they make serious mistakes on a regular basis. My Tesla has actively tried to steer into cyclists in bike lanes, for instance. It also brakes for no reason on highways quite often. Several owners have driven straight into dividers because they were playing video games while the car went off the rails for no apparent reason.

If you're not alert enough to drive, you aren't alert enough to react to autonomous system failures such as these. Worse, if you're sleepy or otherwise incapacitated, you are likely to not fully understand the car's defensive maneuvering and attempt to wrestle control from the car, resulting in far worse swerving.

Considering this an advancement in safety is ludicrous to me.

Take a cab if you're drunk or tired. Your car won't make up for your poor judgment.

I don't think anyone here is objecting to warning and even some intervention systems, especially for low-speed situations such as you describe. I think the concern is more about systems that claim an ability safely to take over driving tasks on the road.

As the primitive single-camera early Autopilot system in our 2015 Model S showed, these systems are already able to handle steering, acceleration, and braking for long stretches in a narrow range of optimal traffic conditions, provided the driver is constantly vigilant and able to take over immediately.

However, that system is almost ancient in terms of software development -- with several of its features since abandoned in the name of safety. Yet now, seven years later and despite all Musk's cynical hype, there is still no driver-assistance system on the market that can be operated safely with any lapse of full attention from the driver.

Instead of the the past several years proving Musk's contention that "full self driving" is just months away, the passing of time has instead proved Rawlinson's contention that true self-driving systems are at least a decade away by the most optimistic and realistic estimates.

For what it's worth, I was a passenger in a Waymo to the mall with my wife and it had no driver and it was neat. I have been following them for a while and I'll share my video here for those interested in true autonomous driving. But they're definitely #1 in the world for any autonomous driving system right now. And this was highway and city driving.

 

[hmp10]

For what it's worth, I was a passenger in a Waymo to the mall with my wife and it had no driver and it was neat. I have been following them for a while and I'll share my video here for those interested in true autonomous driving. But they're definitely #1 in the world for any autonomous driving system right now. And this was highway and city driving.

I agree that Waymo has a much better track record than Tesla on this. However, isn't the Waymo system usable right now only on a few short routes that are thoroughly mapped digitally? Following a digitally-mapped path is, to me, the software equivalent of following a physical rail track.

I think true autonomous driving -- the kind that will keep people with limited abilities fully mobile and independent -- means a vehicle that can drive itself on any road to any destination in the same circumstances that a human driver could. And it's that system that I believe is a decade or more away.

 

[joec]

I agree that Waymo has a much better track record than Tesla on this. However, isn't the Waymo system usable right now only on a few short routes that are thoroughly mapped digitally? Following a digitally-mapped path is, to me, the software equivalent of following a physical rail track.

I think true autonomous driving -- the kind that will keep people with limited abilities fully mobile and independent -- means a vehicle that can drive itself on any road to any destination in the same circumstances that a human driver could. And it's that system that I believe is a decade or more away.

Bingo. Waymo is super impressive. But limited to very specific routes that have been mapped out. At the end of the day, maybe that’s good enough for a robo taxi service in major cities. But it won’t get us to the point where a car can take us wherever we want to go.