2024 Grand Touring changes and release

Bobby · Jan 29, 2024

Shane_SLC said:
But you can only be that efficient by driving responsibly at reasonable speeds. If I'm not going 20+ over the limit in Sprint mode, am I really even driving?

You are 100% correct. However, driving a bit more slowly allowed me to get all the way home without having to worry about stopping. Stopping would've taken longer than slowing down. Under normal circumstances, when I am not on a road trip, I really don't care about my efficiency or range.

LucidPez · Jan 29, 2024

momo3605 said:
I don’t think it’s necessary. Both car and driver and Edmunds and that independent test showed they got peak charge rate of 270kw. That means none of them were at derated stalls.

I recall Kyle from OutOfSpec getting 349kW on an AGT.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/xt0iwv

borski said:
112kWh battery, firstly, and no. For example, @Bobby just drove Casa Grande to San Diego and at his efficiency got close to 450 mi or so.

Even Edmunds’ test found 438mi. In the DE, they got 505mi, so something changed significantly between their tests. My guess? Weather.

Fine, fair point, but only because the testing cycles are different - between Porsche and Lucid, for example.

Thing is, though, it’s still not mid-pack. It’s very hard to control all the factors, especially when charging at public charging stations, which is where all these tests were done.

But comparing Tesla to Lucid, it makes no difference, as they use the same EPA test.

Also, all of this implies that Edmunds did the correct thing to charge. For example, did they precondition? Was the weather the same? Was it the same charger? Was it back to back or months apart? Was the charger derated?

If my car is in service again, sure. But press or not, this is what I have personally seen, empirically.

And, again, see above about controlling confounding factors which is extremely difficult, if not impossible. Chargers get derated all the time.

Actually Edmunds did 3 tests. The third test it got 465 miles. So yeah clearly there is a lot of factors in play to getting the right range.

borski · Jan 29, 2024

I’ve personally gotten 320kW on a GT and 342kW on my DE.

But it’s usually lower.

Bobby · Jan 29, 2024

Reactor said:
Does anyone know anything about the release or major changes? According to the press release last month, it indicated that it would be introduced in January 2024 and also hinted at increased efficiency based on lessons learned from the Grand Touring Performance. Could this mean a possible heat pump? Wil the Grand Touring Performance still exist with the introduction of the Sapphire which has a heat pump?

The 2024 GT will start production in March. I may be wrong, but I do not think it will have a heat pump. I am still researching what the difference in efficiency will be. The GT-P has been discontinued.

xponents · Jan 30, 2024

Bobby said:
The 2024 GT will start production in March. I may be wrong, but I do not think it will have a heat pump. I am still researching what the difference in efficiency will be. The GT-P has been discontinued.

If the other 2024 Airs dont have it(which im pretty sure is true), then I would not expect the GTs to have it either, as you said!

Shane_SLC · Jan 30, 2024

Bobby said:
You are 100% correct. However, driving a bit more slowly allowed me to get all the way home without having to worry about stopping. Stopping would've taken longer than slowing down. Under normal circumstances, when I am not on a road trip, I really don't care about my efficiency or range.

I guess my sarcasm didn't come across.

I agree that slowing down and taking it easy is often the best strategy for long distance travel, and that it doesn't take too much effort to get close to EPA numbers with favorable conditions. The Air is still amazingly efficient when given the chance.

Shane_SLC · Jan 30, 2024

borski said:
I’ve personally gotten 320kW on a GT and 342kW on my DE.

But it’s usually lower.

Out of curiosity, when's the last time you saw over 300kW with a GT? Or was that recently?

Bobby · Jan 30, 2024

Shane_SLC said:
Out of curiosity, when's the last time you saw over 300kW with a GT? Or was that recently?

I haven’t seen it recently because most of the EA 350 chargers are split between two units so if there is a vehicle charging at the other one, you be splitting the 350. Remember, if you take a look at the charging curve, it’s a pretty rare event to see 300… Requires a certain state of charge and preconditioning and the stars to align properly.

koflo · Jan 30, 2024

Alright, who has a GT in the Phoenix area that can test this with me to solve this debate? I have the DE-P. We can get the cars down to >10%, go to the same charger, use the same stall, and see how quickly 0-80% goes. Should be as close to a controlled test as possible.

Bobby · Jan 30, 2024

koflo said:
Alright, who has a GT in the Phoenix area that can test this with me to solve this debate? I have the DE-P. We can get the cars down to >10%, go to the same charger, use the same stall, and see how quickly 0-80% goes. Should be as close to a controlled test as possible.

Make sure to precondition.

hydbob · Jan 30, 2024

Bobby said:
Make sure to precondition.

And use the exact same charger

koflo · Jan 30, 2024

hydbob said:
And use the exact same charger

Already noted that one down "use the same stall"

Neurio · Jan 30, 2024

hydbob said:
And use the exact same charger

But the second person could be handicapped if the charger gets too warm from the first charge and then limits the second charge, right? It's happened to me a few times at really busy stations where I've had to wait a while to charge.

hydbob · Jan 30, 2024

Neurio said:
But the second person could be handicapped if the charger gets too warm from the first charge and then limits the second charge, right? It's happened to me a few times at really busy stations where I've had to wait a while to charge.

True, so park there. Wait an hour block both chargers. Upset owners. See post on Twitter about douchebag Lucid owners.

Neurio · Jan 30, 2024

All in the name of science!

Lucken · Jan 30, 2024

Bobby said:
Make sure to precondition.

And precondition for the same amount of time.

terrycs · Jan 30, 2024

I wonder why I never see tests like these to compare how fast ICE cars take to fill up their gas tanks?

momo3605 · Jan 30, 2024

terrycs said:
I wonder why I never see tests like these to compare how fast ICE cars take to fill up their gas tanks?

Unless you're joking, it's obvious, a gas fillup takes 5 minutes.

A newer model 3/model S can get you enough charge to make it to the next of plentiful and reliable supercharger in 20 minutes or less. An ioniq or taycan can do 80% in 20 minutes. Lucid needs 40 minutes for 80%. I think 20 minutes is ok for a break when on a roadtrip, 40 minutes is a long time for a car on 900V architecture.

If Lucid puts the GT-P cell chemistry and/or motor tech in to the GT, i think it'll be a game-changer. We know the DE/GT-P charge well without the aggressive taper and consistently do 10-15% better efficiency at highway speeds.

LucidPez · Jan 30, 2024

momo3605 said:
Unless you're joking, it's obvious, a gas fillup takes 5 minutes.

A newer model 3/model S can get you enough charge to make it to the next of plentiful and reliable supercharger in 20 minutes or less. An ioniq or taycan can do 80% in 20 minutes. Lucid needs 40 minutes for 80%. I think 20 minutes is ok for a break when on a roadtrip, 40 minutes is a long time for a car on 900V architecture.

If Lucid puts the GT-P cell chemistry and/or motor tech in to the GT, i think it'll be a game-changer. We know the DE/GT-P charge well without the aggressive taper and consistently do 10-15% better efficiency at highway speeds.

80% on an Ioniq though is like 200 miles.

80% on a Lucid is like 300+. A Lucid can just leave earlier technically.

But the Kia/Hyundai/Genesis E-GMP curves are pretty insane. Stays around 235kW until about 55-56% on my old Genesis.

momo3605 · Jan 30, 2024

LucidPez said:
80% on an Ioniq though is like 200 miles.

80% on a Lucid is like 300+. A Lucid can just leave earlier technically.

But the Kia/Hyundai/Genesis E-GMP curves are pretty insane. Stays around 235kW until about 55-56% on my old Genesis.

I think it might depend on the model but apparently the ioniq 6 RWD can do 340 miles at 70mph. That gets you ~270 miles in 20 minutes.

In 20 minutes you can get maybe 50% on a GT which would get you approximately 200 miles. A pure or Touring would only get 150 miles in 20 minutes

2024 Grand Touring changes and release

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