Tesla blamed drivers for failures of parts it long knew were defective

Oh, I know. I was just using it as an analogy for 'what the CEO should be responsible for' rather than suggesting anyone actually try and sue.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if one knowingly commits intentional fraud, presumably the corporate veil would be pierced then, and D&O/E&O insurance wouldn't come into play, per my understanding.

(I've run companies, but I am definitely not a lawyer)
Technically accurate but practically impossible to prove. Our Corps professor had a saying that the only way to pierce the veil was if you, the officer, wanted it pierced or wrote down some incredibly stupid memos.

So can be done, and I guess Elon's in the Tyson Zone at this point so anything is possible, it just feels like a weird and unlikely tangent so don't want to throw people off.
 
Technically accurate but practically impossible to prove. Our Corps professor had a saying that the only way to pierce the veil was if you, the officer, wanted it pierced or wrote down some incredibly stupid memos.

So can be done, and I guess Elon's in the Tyson Zone at this point so anything is possible, it just feels like a weird and unlikely tangent so don't want to throw people off.
Fair enough! I guess I'm just assuming potential idiotic behavior, like all the conversations and writings available for proving SBF's fraud at FTX, or like Elon trying to get out of buying Twitter, for example.

You're right though, it's a tangent. It's not going to happen. Perhaps too strained of an analogy.
 
None of this "blame the client" culture with Tesla surprises me at all. Six months after getting my Model Y, the charging computer in the car malfunctioned and also fried the corded mobile connector I used plugged into a dedicated NEMA 14-50 outlet. I had my electrician check the outlet and current and all was working correctly. It took well over a month for Tesla to get the replacement parts and do a mobile repair, but they refused to replace the connector cable and insisted my outlet had malfunctioned and actually caused the damage. They were fixing the car itself as a "customer service" favor. It was weeks for me to track down a person to deal with that was not on the app or via email and to get them to admit that there was no way to definitively prove it was my outlet at fault (I had sent them my electrician's report) and there was also no way for them to prove it was NOT their computer at fault. I've often wondered if this had happened to any other Tesla owners. I had almost two months where I had to pay for SuperCharging vs lower home rates (that was the only way to charge the car) with no compensation or discounts. After the repair was done, it was another two months trying to get a replacement connector. They ended up sending me a free wall charger, which I never opened, and I sold on eBay along with several accessories once I offloaded the car and ordered my Lucid. I have yet to hear anyone on this forum say that Lucid's Customer Service has blamed them for items being repaired or replaced, especially with the car still being under warranty.
 
None of this "blame the client" culture with Tesla surprises me at all. Six months after getting my Model Y, the charging computer in the car malfunctioned and also fried the corded mobile connector I used plugged into a dedicated NEMA 14-50 outlet. I had my electrician check the outlet and current and all was working correctly. It took well over a month for Tesla to get the replacement parts and do a mobile repair, but they refused to replace the connector cable and insisted my outlet had malfunctioned and actually caused the damage. They were fixing the car itself as a "customer service" favor. It was weeks for me to track down a person to deal with that was not on the app or via email and to get them to admit that there was no way to definitively prove it was my outlet at fault (I had sent them my electrician's report) and there was also no way for them to prove it was NOT their computer at fault. I've often wondered if this had happened to any other Tesla owners. I had almost two months where I had to pay for SuperCharging vs lower home rates (that was the only way to charge the car) with no compensation or discounts. After the repair was done, it was another two months trying to get a replacement connector. They ended up sending me a free wall charger, which I never opened, and I sold on eBay along with several accessories once I offloaded the car and ordered my Lucid. I have yet to hear anyone on this forum say that Lucid's Customer Service has blamed them for items being repaired or replaced, especially with the car still being under warranty.
Tesla is a very rich company, worth 770 billion as of today, yet they continue to nickel and dime, treating customers like trash and not taking responsibility. This culture stems down from the CEO. Why can't they own up and fix the issues that are actually their fault? Lack of ethics? No moral values?
 
This thread, while lively in discussion, seems to be leading a certain way. Let's attempt to keep it civil, but based on previous history, I'm sure someone will be locking this thread soon.
 
I would be surprised if Elon knew. I don't think he has time to deal with such day to day issues. But being CEO you are ultimately responsible and you set the tone for the company.
 
I would be surprised if Elon knew. I don't think he has time to deal with such day to day issues. But being CEO you are ultimately responsible and you set the tone for the company.
Yeah, it's probably unlikely he intentionally made the choice to defraud. But as you mentioned, he doesn't get to abdicate that responsibility.
 
This thread, while lively in discussion, seems to be leading a certain way. Let's attempt to keep it civil, but based on previous history, I'm sure someone will be locking this thread soon.
Fair, although it has been pretty civil, and is in fact actually a thread about Tesla for once, lol
 
I read the Reuters story as just another biased hit piece. Sorry, but I've seen too much media malpractice to take this seriously.
 
I read the Reuters story as just another biased hit piece. Sorry, but I've seen too much media malpractice to take this seriously.
Lol did you even read the article? I guess all the evidence is considered a hit piece now.
 
@TFCooper Do you have any specific examples of it being a 'hit piece' or is that just your 'feeling'? Because if it's the latter, I pose the same question to you as @hydbob

Otherwise, feel free to add to the discussion! But "nah it's an article by BIG MEDIA" is not exactly a major contribution.
 
A lot of manufacturers do that. I just had a work order on a Bentley with them telling me all control arms are cracked, engine mounts need replacement and since Bentleys don't have an active forum, I looked and asked around. Apparently the control arms cracking and engine mounts are a fairly common issue and the cost is a whopping $28,000 with each engine mount ( active engine mounts) coming in at 4k each.
Lincoln has some issue with their V6's. Mine just got it done under good faith warranty since I got it done 20k miles before but it's a fairly common issue
 
@TFCooper Do you have any specific examples of it being a 'hit piece' or is that just your 'feeling'? Because if it's the latter, I pose the same question to you as @hydbob

Otherwise, feel free to add to the discussion! But "nah it's an article by BIG MEDIA" is not exactly a major contribution.
Fair enough.

1) The article consists of talking with specific owners about specific problems, and the owners blame Tesla. That happens with every car company, and we know that sometimes it's the owner's fault, and sometimes not. Remember the sudden acceleration issues? It turns out the majority are due to driver error. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration
2) Tesla makes a lot of cars with new technology, and some are bound to have issues. The article's author talked to some owners and concluded there's a systematic problem with the quality of certain parts. OK, the plural of anecdote is data, but is it strong evidence? Maybe yes, maybe no. Here's my anecdote: my Model X, bought in 2016, had the half-shaft vibration problem, and Tesla fixed it under warranty. The car had zero problems after that, and I traded it in for a 2019 Model S. That Model S never needed service (except for a new set of tires), and I recently traded it in for a 2023 Model S. Was the half-shaft problem systematic? Probably yes, because there were hundreds of Model X owners with similar problems. Did my Model S have the half-shaft problem? No. (Note that the Reuters article shows a picture of Model S front suspension parts, not Model Y parts. Why?)
Is the Model Y problem systematic? Does it exist at all? We don't have enough data yet.
3) Tesla didn't discuss the issue with Reuters: why not? We know there are two sides to every issue and have only heard from one side. I can tell you one reason the other side is often not heard from in an article is because the author didn't give them enough time to respond.
4) We know that journalists don't like Elon Musk. Perhaps partly because of his politics, and perhaps partly because Twitter contributes to the demise of traditional media. I believe that animus matters a lot in writing articles like this.
5) Reuters could easily write a similar article about Lucid, using the issues that owners have detailed on this forum.
 
Fair enough.
Thank you for responding in kind! (I mean that; lots of people just chant things and run away)

At least on one point:
3) Tesla didn't discuss the issue with Reuters: why not? We know there are two sides to every issue and have only heard from one side. I can tell you one reason the other side is often not heard from in an article is because the author didn't give them enough time to respond.
Because Elon fired Tesla’s entire PR team, this providing nobody to respond, and has refused calls to build a new one repeatedly. That’s certainly not Reuters’ fault.
 
Thank you for responding in kind! (I mean that; lots of people just chant things and run away)

At least on one point:

Because Elon fired Tesla’s entire PR team, this providing nobody to respond, and has refused calls to build a new one repeatedly. That’s certainly not Reuters’ fault.

Elon believe he is one man marketing man for Tesla, X Platform and SpaceX. He basically is just branding himself for that leverage and cost saving. But I bet it is PR nightmare for each of 3 companies.
 
5) Reuters could easily write a similar article about Lucid, using the issues that owners have detailed on this forum.
Folks have and members of this forum have called them hit pieces as well. I think the bottom line is that one could make the argument about every EV (different problems).

I think you lucked out on your 2021 Model S. CR rated that model for that year as the worst for reliability (two arrows down). But every car purchase/lease is a compromise. One needs to decide what is most important, important, less important and which are positives and which are negatives and then make a decision. If a Model S works for you, go for it. If it is a Lucid Air...the same. At least now we have choices.
 
Back
Top