Some odds and ends

While I certainly expected there to be some software issues for a good while with such a new car, I thought they would be more like glitches in one feature or another, or delays in activating certain features -- inconveniences and minor annoyances, but nothing major.

I did not, however, expect to receive a car with software that is not yet released for production vehicles and that has frozen significant operational aspects of the car every single time we have driven it so far.
I really hope that Lucid works overtime to fix the most glaring software issues before the next wave of AGT rollouts. They really have a window of about 6 months to make a 1st impression. If word gets out (beyond this forum) into the larger public sphere that the car drives great but is plagued by unreliable software, then as an automaker rooted in tech, that is a hard reputation to get rid of and will haunt Lucid for a long time.

Why do people love the integrated Apple ecosystem so much and are willing to keep paying a premium, because it all just works and is reliable. Design and coolness factor aside, there is no substitute for reliability for software-driven tech products.
 
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It's not a question of being complicated. I'm not an idiot. It's a question of being sure you have the key fob with you instead of just the mobile key or the key card (which is all some people use regularly), having to get out of the car, move away from it for a few minutes, and then hope it resets. If you're not near shelter when you do this, good luck with the weather.

We just got back from a drive to check out the one road in the Naples area that has decent graded curves on it that you can take at speed. My partner drove up to test the handling in Swift and Sprint modes (and it was stellar, btw). However, by the time we arrived at the shopping center where we traded drivers, the Pilot Screen had frozen yet again. We got out of the car, moved away to stand under some shade trees while the car rebooted, and then tried the reset. This time it did not work (as it did not on one occasion yesterday), and I drove home with the car defaulted to the Smooth mode where it remained frozen.

Thank God Lucid had some manual backups for adjusting the A/C and audio volume, but we were unable to get our masks out of the glovebox at the shopping center because we could not open the glovebox.

You may think this is super easy to deal with. I respectfully disagree.
I don't think its easy to deal with, unfortunately from what you said, you have a version of the software which is causing too many new issues. Hopefully they can roll you back to the older 1.0.7 version which isn't causing any of these glitches.
 
Why do people love the integrated Apple ecosystem so much and are willing to keep paying a premium, because it all just works and is reliable. Design and coolness factor aside, there is no substitute for reliability for software-driven tech products.
well, my iPad crashes daily and I have to perform a soft reboot to clear everything, so You can’t say that the Apple iOS software is reliable.
 
I told them I had 1.1.0, and they said that was impossible
That is a rookie statement. Anything is possible in a development environment. In software dev (and other areas I'm sure), it's "we can make it fool proof but we can't make it damn fool proof". IT sets up a dev environment that is supposed to be isolated from production but it only takes 1 idiot to break that isolation. I think this is the second report of being on 1.1.0. I've seen this where I worked - Mr. Know-it-all doesn't read or follow the SOP and the dev environment becomes the prod and we have angry customers.

Lucid needs to get the car back to 1.0.7 where it's a known set of code and problems. They have no idea where in development the 1.1.0 that is on the car was in when it was loaded. You can't debug that - you can only revert to the production level.

rest assured not all EVs have these kinds of software issues
You're comparing 2 legacy auto companies to 2 start-ups. The legacy companies already had software developed over years of work running on other vehicles and just had to add some functionality for the new models on platforms the developers had vast experience using. They still had bugs - just not to the scale we see with the start-ups. Tesla built from scratch. Given the complexity and number of lines of code, there is no way there weren't going to be problems. We're seeing the same with Lucid. I think Peter knew the mechanical portion of the car was ready but didn't understand the state of the software or didn't care enough about that side. I am disappointed at just how buggy and undeveloped the software is. The decision to release the Air at this point in software development was deadline driven. Lucid had to know it wasn't ready for production. Can I drive the car? Yes. Can I enjoy the car? No. Outside of the mechanical, am I satisfied with the car? I don't have one so can't answer but guessing that's a hard no based on what we're reading. If this was the year 2000 and fobs only locked and unlocked, doors had mechanical handles, no aux inputs to stereos, no ADAS, the car would be fantastic.

You're right that legacy companies don't have the scale of problems we see with Tesla and Lucid but it needs to be into context.
 
I don't think its easy to deal with, unfortunately from what you said, you have a version of the software which is causing too many new issues. Hopefully they can roll you back to the older 1.0.7 version which isn't causing any of these glitches.

I just spent two hours on the phone with Lucid Customer Care. To their credit, they had a sizable team on the problem, and all had been briefed before I even called today. The only sticking point was that I was told the IT person did not have the capability to join the call, so everything had to be relayed back and forth through the service rep, which meant a lot of time sitting on hold and an occasional misunderstanding about the symptom I was describing.

However, reboots have ceased to correct the problem with the Pilot Screen, which is now perpetually frozen. They pushed Version 1.0.7 to the car which I was able to load through the mobile app, as the "Settings" on the Pilot Screen were not accessible. The car is now running 1.0.7 instead of 1.1.0, but that did not resolve the problem. Anything which can be controlled off the Glass Cockpit (nav, music, phone) is working; nothing that has to be controlled through the Pilot Screen (settings, drive modes, granular A/C and seat adjustments, massages, interior lighting) is working.

They are sending a mobile service tech to try to deal with the problem in person.
 
You may think this is super easy to deal with. I respectfully disagree.
Oh, I was not implying that. I thought it “humorous” that you could so easily restart the software when you didn’t even want to.
 
Oh, I was not implying that. I thought it “humorous” that you could so easily restart the software when you didn’t even want to.

My comment was not directed at you, but thanks.
 
Sounds like the entire computer needs to be wiped and a fresh copy installed.
 
My comment was not directed at you, but thanks.

I'm thinking this may be the "fit and finish" issue(s) that is holding up the rest of the Dream Edition cars?? I was anxious about possibly losing the $7500 tax credit, but now I'm kind of glad they are holding my car up. Hopefully these multiple software issues can be solved soon. As mentioned earlier if this gets out to the "public" Lucid will be tarnished for sure.
 
On a brighter note:

The car is everything I hoped it would be (and even a little more) in terms of design, structural robustness, build quality, fit and finish, power delivery, and handling. We've now spent several hours in it, and there is nary a squeak or rattle, and you can find any seating position you can imagine and throw in a good massage to boot. I've never thought twice about motorized thigh supports, and now I never want to buy a car again without them.

As for power delivery, there is real differentiation between the three drive modes, and each brings something useful to whatever driving you're in the mood for. The throttle response is notably different between Smooth and Swift, and the power difference between Swift and Sprint will have you hanging onto your toupee. Yes, the motor whine in the Air is a bit more prominent than in a Tesla Model S, but you really notice it only under brisk acceleration -- and that's exactly when I like to hear a car delivering its magic.

As for handling, I think a reviewer nailed it when he said that, if Lotus built a 5,200-pound sedan, this is the suspension set up it would have. The combination of precision and compliance is approached only by the best BMW's of recent years.

The sound stage of the audio system, whether with Atmos-encoded material or not, is clear, detailed, and perfectly balanced. It's just as good as it's advertised to be. (One owner said he found it a bit bass-deficient. I was surprised to find that this system delivers more bass -- and more accurately -- when set to its middle default position than the new Tesla Model S with its bass cranked up 6db+ (which I hate, anyway, but have to live with to keep peace on the homefront . . . . .)

And the back seat which, since early days, has been my biggest worry about the Air falling short of billing -- well, it's really pretty good, although people do comment that their knees are jacked up a bit. Last night we had a six-footer in the front seat and a six-footer in the seat behind. The person in the rear said the front seat could be moved back, as he had more room than he needed. By the time the seat reached his feet, the front passenger had lost contact with the front firewall and actually wanted to move the seat more forward.

So . . . the initial take on the Air compared to our Model S Plaid (leaving software issues aside for the moment):

The Air handily beats the Plaid on almost every aspect of the interior, from design aesthetic to materials to fit and finish to passenger space and comfort front and rear. The Tesla has a better storage layout in the front console, and I've come to enjoy the large, horizontal screen more than I thought I would. The biggest miss to me in the Air -- the Google Earth satellite map, which I got addicted to with my first Tesla.

In terms of exterior styling, the Model S has held up well over the past ten years and is still a sharp-looking car. But its body shell imposes limits on what can be done with interior space that just can't be overcome. If there was ever any doubt, Lucid -- with virtually identical exterior dimensions -- proved it. And they proved it with a very fetching visual design.

In terms of driving, there is absolutely no contest. The Plaid steering yoke absolutely sucks, and there is almost nothing Lucid could have put on its steering column that would have been worse. Fortunately, they did better than that and put in a darned good steering wheel and some very serviceable stalks (although the turn signal stalk could stand being a bit closer to the wheel). Even if the Plaid could handle better than the Lucid -- and it can't -- having to use the yoke to do it would wipe out any advantage.

In terms of power delivery and acceleration, this one's a tie. It would be hard to beat the Plaid for brutal acceleration, but there is a smoothness to the way the Lucid leaps forward when ridden hard that somehow makes it a more enticing experience to me. BUT . . . a car needs to be kept under control during hard acceleration, and the Lucid -- while rearward weight transfer can be felt in the suspension -- stays better planted with its front end than the Tesla. So, for pure thrills, maybe the Tesla. For thrills while staying alive to recount them, the Lucid. (This is one of those areas where Rawlinson's time running engineering at Jaguar and Lotus really comes through.)
 
That is a rookie statement. Anything is possible in a development environment. In software dev (and other areas I'm sure), it's "we can make it fool proof but we can't make it damn fool proof". IT sets up a dev environment that is supposed to be isolated from production but it only takes 1 idiot to break that isolation. I think this is the second report of being on 1.1.0. I've seen this where I worked - Mr. Know-it-all doesn't read or follow the SOP and the dev environment becomes the prod and we have angry customers.

Lucid needs to get the car back to 1.0.7 where it's a known set of code and problems. They have no idea where in development the 1.1.0 that is on the car was in when it was loaded. You can't debug that - you can only revert to the production level.


You're comparing 2 legacy auto companies to 2 start-ups. The legacy companies already had software developed over years of work running on other vehicles and just had to add some functionality for the new models on platforms the developers had vast experience using. They still had bugs - just not to the scale we see with the start-ups. Tesla built from scratch. Given the complexity and number of lines of code, there is no way there weren't going to be problems. We're seeing the same with Lucid. I think Peter knew the mechanical portion of the car was ready but didn't understand the state of the software or didn't care enough about that side. I am disappointed at just how buggy and undeveloped the software is. The decision to release the Air at this point in software development was deadline driven. Lucid had to know it wasn't ready for production. Can I drive the car? Yes. Can I enjoy the car? No. Outside of the mechanical, am I satisfied with the car? I don't have one so can't answer but guessing that's a hard no based on what we're reading. If this was the year 2000 and fobs only locked and unlocked, doors had mechanical handles, no aux inputs to stereos, no ADAS, the car would be fantastic.

You're right that legacy companies don't have the scale of problems we see with Tesla and Lucid but it needs to be into context.
There was no distinction made between legacy & startups in the statement I was responding to, “Cars are not mobile computers or PDA's and should not be thought of and designed as such. Maybe in the future when software development skills have developed further but, after six years of owning Teslas with ever-evolving software glitches, I can tell you that we're still a long way away from prime time.“

So my response was simply to show it can be done and is being done. You’re absolutely correct that legacy EVs have software glitches too, and I’ve had them on my MS, I-Pace and e-Tron, but nothing on the order of what we’ve been seeing here. Owners, especially at this price point, and with the very expectations raised by Rawlinson himself, had every reason to expect better than this.
 
Just got a call from the Lucid Service Manager in Riviera Beach on the other side of the state. He had received word about my problem with the Pilot Screen and was apologetic that he couldn't get a mobile tech to me today. He said he would find someone to come over tomorrow if I was available. I told him not to try to get someone who was not already scheduled to work to give up their Sunday and that I could easily wait until someone was heading over this way, as the car was drivable and we have other cars. He still said he wanted to get someone here by Monday morning and would call me back with a time.

The software issue is aggravating, but you really can't beat the response I've seen from Lucid thus far.
 
well, my iPad crashes daily and I have to perform a soft reboot to clear everything, so You can’t say that the Apple iOS software is reliable.
I have several iPads and iPhones and don’t have those problems. The only time they get rebooted is when I update software - and I run the beta version.

The same may be true for my Lucid Air: although I have the same latest software, I haven’t experienced any catastrophic errors.
 
So my response was simply to show it can be done and is being done.

Two observations: my friends who bought a VW ID.4 and a Mustang Mach-E wouldn't exactly call their software experiences problem-free thus far.

And, for the most part, legacy manufacturers aren't yet attempting to reach as far with software as Tesla and Lucid are, such as Full Self Driving and running a 32-sensor suite for ADAS.
 
There was no distinction made between legacy & startups in the statement I was responding to, “Cars are not mobile computers or PDA's and should not be thought of and designed as such. Maybe in the future when software development skills have developed further but, after six years of owning Teslas with ever-evolving software glitches, I can tell you that we're still a long way away from prime time.“

So my response was simply to show it can be done and is being done. You’re absolutely correct that legacy EVs have software glitches too, and I’ve had them on my MS, I-Pace and e-Tron, but nothing on the order of what we’ve been seeing here. Owners, especially at this price point, and with the very expectations raised by Rawlinson himself, had every reason to expect better than this.

I guess I am wondering where people are expecting the software to come from? All the mentioned companies have software patents. I don't think there is any way to test the software until its implemented by the consumer. All the various scenarios challenge the program.
 
I have several iPads and iPhones and don’t have those problems. The only time they get rebooted is when I update software - and I run the beta version.

The same may be true for my Lucid Air: although I have the same latest software, I haven’t experienced any catastrophic errors.

What year did the first iPod come out? 2001? Apple has had years to perfect their software from consumer use before everyone had it in their pocket. No never mind I used my first computer in 1983 the "Apple" computer.
 
Two observations: my friends who bought a VW ID.4 and a Mustang Mach-E wouldn't exactly call their software experiences problem-free thus far.

And, for the most part, legacy manufacturers aren't yet attempting to reach as far with software as Tesla and Lucid are, such as Full Self Driving and running a 32-sensor suite for ADAS.
Except that the issues you and some others are experiencing don’t appear to be related to FSD (that I’ll never trust in any car) or the ADAS.

Again, as I said before, all EVs have software glitches, but most are not of the magnitude I’m seeing here. Although I still have my reservation and I’m not an owner yet, I am disappointed with what I’m seeing.

I sincerely hope owners don’t let Lucid off the hook with a variety of rationalizations like, “well, they’re just a startup”. If that comes to pass, then this forum will look just like the Tesla forum I frequented during my 3 year tenure with my MS. Tesla could do no wrong, and heaven help you if you suggested otherwise.

I don’t mean to suggest that’s happening here to any great degree, but I do see some signs of it.
 
I think it's more like...well we are having these issues, everyone here, I assume is already on touch with Customer Care, it's just a matter of getting it fixed. Doubt anyone is giving them a pass, but Lucid is definitely on top of getting the problems fixed. I don't get the feeling anyone is giving them a pass, but fixes take time.
 
There was no distinction made between legacy & startups in the statement I was responding to
Right...you introduced the distinction when you stated that your Audi and Jaguar don't have these issues. I was just trying to add that legacy companies like you pointed to started with very small amounts of programming and it allowed them to build from very simple to complex providing them with a much simpler learning curve and development path. Lucid has to build everything from the ground up while avoiding patents other companies have claimed. I was not an early adopter of the MS but I have read that their software was a mess initially.

I was an early naysayer to Tesla and EVs in general - guess I missed the boat on that one. I still have not owned a Tesla due to build issues. My brother is a Tesla apologist. Build quality? That's just a few complainers. Wind noise on M3, there's an after market gasket that takes care of it (Uh, why doesn't Tesla negate the need for that?). So far, I haven't detected an apologist attitude. Some have allowed that start-ups will have problems but I think they will hold Lucid responsible for fixes and enhancements.
 
A couple of questions if Alexa is not working:

- I have an iPhone linked to the car with access to my contacts. Is there any way to dial by voice command?

- Is there any way to use voice command to select a streaming service (Spotify or Tidal) and a specific artist or song? (I have my accounts set up in both apps.) Alexa always defaults to Amazon Music and will not search Spotify or Tidal.
 
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