Can you get your 1000$ refunded if you ordered stealth and they keep saying Q1 and or who knows at this point just wondering is my 1000$ lost forever? I only signed it to get that tax credit and that appears to be falling through as well
Refund on order?
- Thread starter blueice89
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Ned
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You should be able to get the refund.
If you turned it into an order after your reservation, Lucid has the right to keep your money. They were upfront about it which is what they are legally required to do. If you make the case that you were under the impression you could get a car prior to the end of the year, they might refund your "deposit" but that is wholly up to them. You don't have any leverage in the matter. Just my thought.
Ned
Member
You ordered a car with Apple CarPlay. It doesn't have Apple CarPlay. You are entered to a full refund.
See the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
Ned
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If this is the argument it is a pretty bad one. I'm surprised anyone would accept this. Lucid says their Air is compatible with CarPlay. It is not. This is a pretty back and white case.
To be clear. "Lucid says their Air IS compatible with CarPlay." It doesn't say it might be one day.
No, no, I can't let it go. I'm too invested in this to just move on. I must post about "compatible" and whether that means it has carplay or is just capable of running carplay. And I don't care what whichever dictionary you cite says the definition is, it's whatever definition suits my viewpoint.
And I want to add that carplay is trash - android auto is a far superior implementation
Ned
Member
I'm not trying to argue this point. I am trying to explain the law to blueice89. Both CarPlay and Android Auto were promised and neither were delivered. blueice89 now asks if he can get a refund on a product that he ordered and that was never delivered. I find the issue to be very clear and it saddens me that American consumers believe they cannot protect their contractual rights, but apparently some do.
This was a deceptive representation by Lucid; plain and simple. As the Ninth Circuit has stated many times, it is well established that a communication is deceptive where it can be reasonably read to have two or more different meanings, one of which is inaccurate. Gonzales v. Arrow Fin. Servs., LLC, 660 F.3d 1055, 1062 (9th Cir. 2011). Obviously the statement that the Lucid Air "is compatible with CarPlay" can be reasonably read mean the the Lucid Air is compatible with CarPlay when in fact it is not.
If blueice89 or anyone else believes Lucid can make such a misrepresentation and thereafter the purchaser is obligated to accept that misrepresented product, that is up to them, but under the law such an idea is simply untrue.
This was a deceptive representation by Lucid; plain and simple. As the Ninth Circuit has stated many times, it is well established that a communication is deceptive where it can be reasonably read to have two or more different meanings, one of which is inaccurate. Gonzales v. Arrow Fin. Servs., LLC, 660 F.3d 1055, 1062 (9th Cir. 2011). Obviously the statement that the Lucid Air "is compatible with CarPlay" can be reasonably read mean the the Lucid Air is compatible with CarPlay when in fact it is not.
If blueice89 or anyone else believes Lucid can make such a misrepresentation and thereafter the purchaser is obligated to accept that misrepresented product, that is up to them, but under the law such an idea is simply untrue.
I actually agree with you they should get the refund, provided they didn’t finalize the order. Some folks have reported here that Lucid has been happy to do that without much of a fuss.
All the legal mumbo jumbo is not necessary. Nor are threats or implications of deception, etc. There isn’t a court anywhere in the US that would find Lucid in violation of anything in the use of “compatible” on their web site. But none of that matters. You continue to make a giant issue out of something that is not an issue at all. Anyone who does five minutes of research can clearly find out CarPlay is shipping soon and make their decision about moving forward based on that.
At this point I’m more looking forward to Lucid shipping CarPlay so we can stop having these pointless debates than I am about actually having CarPlay.
Ned
Member
The idea that "there isn’t a court anywhere in the US that would find Lucid in violation of anything in the use of “compatible” on their web site" is untrue. Lucid has liability here. The word "compatible" is false, deceptive, or misleading. In fact, I suspect that Lucid gets sued for it all the time and they lose that case. Lucid is being deceptive. However, one thing about the agreement you signed is that you agreed to confidential, binding arbitration. The results of arbitration are confidential.
That said, you say "Anyone who does five minutes of research can clearly find out CarPlay is shipping soon and make their decision about moving forward based on that." While I hope that is true, I am unconvinced that CarPlay is shipping soon. What you are referring to is nothing but rumors. Lucid can't get their software to work. If Lucid really plans of releasing CarPlay "soon," why doesn't it at least say so?
I am looking forward to the addition of CarPlay/AA to the Lucid for two reasons.
1. So I can enjoy it and use it.
2. So I don't have read threads like these anymore.
1. So I can enjoy it and use it.
2. So I don't have read threads like these anymore.
Ned
Member
I think it is unfortunate that this site is more of a cheerleading site that an informational one. It is practically a religion for many. A lot of people out here don't want to hear the truth, but would rather hear that they purchased a great car, etc.
If we actually worked to improve the Lucid, it might improve. Maybe you find it objectionable anytime someone has the nerve to say anything negative about the car you purchased, but I am interested in the truth, good or bad. I fail to see how telling Lucid that we all find it acceptable to be deceived by them does anything other than encourage this type of deceptive behavior.
Are you always this angry? It’s not a cheerleading site, but it is frequented by people who tend to be pretty happy folks. We realize there are many problems in life that are far greater than the absence of CarPlay on our Lucids. Believe me, I wish it were there, too. I have it on my other vehicles and use it frequently. I have personally called out Lucid on this and at this point I am under the impression it will be added soon. I was hoping to see it by now, but I am too busy enjoying the holidays and my beautiful family to sit around and be pissed off over such a minor thing.
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1. I opted out of arbitration, which is trivial to do by sending an email, so no, the results don’t have to be confidential for everyone. In fact, there was a thread on here about the arbitration clause and how to opt out - I may have even started it, but I don’t remember tbh.
2. You suspecting that Lucid gets sued for it all the time doesn’t make it true. Without any proof, the assumption any reasonable person would make is that they don’t.
3. They have said so. Derek Jenkins said they were hoping to get it out by the end of the year in his AMA a month or so ago. That doesn’t look like it’s happening, but to say that Lucid has provided no guidance about CarPlay coming soon is to put your head in the sand.
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- Air DE-P, ZR, 21"
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Truth is all I care about, actually. What I don’t care about is speculation.
Also, “working to improve the Lucid” implies constructive criticism. The car has issues, and nobody has ever refuted that. But screaming the sky is falling and that they are being deceptive is far from the truth.
Furthermore, it is certainly less deceptive (if at all) than other car companies out there; one just has to point to “full self driving” to see that.
Also, please try to approach conversations here from a place of kindness and assuming the best intent. Cynicism for the sake of being cynical has no place here.
If you take nothing away from this, at least read this: criticism alone is not helpful unless it is constructive. Please aim to have conversations in a constructive way. We are all here trying to share, learn, and improve the car and everyone’s experience with it.
You are arguing the point. The point being the definition of compatible. The crux of your claim relies on a definition I can’t find which makes your claim that it can be interpreted In multiple ways by reasonable people invalid. Since the dictionary definition of compatible is that the hardware/software is capable of running CarPlay, you would have to prove it isn’t, not just that Lucid hasn’t delivered CarPlay. The back and forth on this basically pits those that accept the dictionary definition versus those that want to define compatible any way they choose.
Ned
Member
You can spin the word "compatible" all you like, but the issue is "it is well established that a communication is deceptive where it can be reasonably read to have two or more different meanings."
Ned
Member
I will address all the recent comments as to my comment concerning CarPlay, jointly.
You can attack me all you like and spin crazy idea like "compatible" doesn't really mean "compatible". It doesn't address the issues.
When I decided to purchase an electric vehicle, the number one priority for me was that the user interface be a good one. Because I was used to CarPlay on other cars, and because CarPlay is the number one user interface for luxury vehicles, that's what I wanted. When I looked into it, I found out Tesla did not have CarPlay. Furthermore, Elon Musk made it clear that his ongoing fight with Apple meant Tesla was never going to have CarPlay. So I rejected Tesla.
But Lucid assured me that it did provide CarPlay and I (apparently foolishly) believed them. Like many others, no doubt, I relied on Lucid's representations in making my purchase. So when I took delivery on the vehicle, I assumed it would have CarPlay. But, of course, it didn't. Lucid lied to us. You can try to sugar coat it all you like, but that's the only accurate characterization. Lucid lied to us. When I complained to Lucid about it the Lucid rep told me that Lucid would have CarPlay “by the end of the year.” Well here we are. It’s the end of the year and still no CarPlay. So am I angry about that? Absolutely. I don’t like being lied to. Perhaps you find that to be acceptable, but I don't.
Now I'm hearing people say that, with regard to the contract we have with Lucid, “there isn’t a court anywhere in the US that would find Lucid in violation of anything in the use of “compatible” on their web site” a ridiculous statement. Further, if you want to get your money back on a car that promised you CarPlay people out here find that unacceptable. If Lucid lies to us about what the cars can do, “there isn’t a court anywhere in the US” that would do something about it, but if you want to get a refund on your thousand dollars down payment, because Lucid lied, forget it. That is the position many are taking.
As for the “speculation,” that you say you find of little use, that's all that's going on out here about Lucid and CarPlay. I've even heard people talk about how it's Apple's fault. God forbid we point the finger at Lucid. “There's licensing issues” some say. But of course, neither apple nor Lucid has ever said it has licensing issues. That is the speculation. That's speculation blaming Apple rather than Lucid when it is Lucid that lied.
Also, saying, Lucid “is certainly less deceptive (if at all) than other car companies out there; one just has to point to “full self driving” to see that” is just more of the same. You are saying, in affect, “if Lucid lied (you just can’t bring yourself to admit it did) Tesla was worse about its full self driving claims. But I don’t see how saying “Tesla is worse” addresses the issue. I don’t care if Tesla is worse. I care that Lucid has been lying to us. People need to stop making excuses for Lucid.
Finally, I will do as you ask. I will leave you some constructive criticism. Lucid needs to put out a press release. Are they or are they not going to release CarPlay and Android Auto for the Lucid? It is a simple request that Lucid should not fear addressing unless they don’t plan on releasing it. I am not at all impressed by Lucid's inability to write decent software. I don't know how anyone justifies the idea that Lucid can sit silently by and not tell people what they are they going to do about an issue that is clearly the number one problem and that they've been promising in their sales literature. If Lucid gets hit with a class action on this, it will diminish my car, and yours, considerably. I don't want to see that.
You can attack me all you like and spin crazy idea like "compatible" doesn't really mean "compatible". It doesn't address the issues.
When I decided to purchase an electric vehicle, the number one priority for me was that the user interface be a good one. Because I was used to CarPlay on other cars, and because CarPlay is the number one user interface for luxury vehicles, that's what I wanted. When I looked into it, I found out Tesla did not have CarPlay. Furthermore, Elon Musk made it clear that his ongoing fight with Apple meant Tesla was never going to have CarPlay. So I rejected Tesla.
But Lucid assured me that it did provide CarPlay and I (apparently foolishly) believed them. Like many others, no doubt, I relied on Lucid's representations in making my purchase. So when I took delivery on the vehicle, I assumed it would have CarPlay. But, of course, it didn't. Lucid lied to us. You can try to sugar coat it all you like, but that's the only accurate characterization. Lucid lied to us. When I complained to Lucid about it the Lucid rep told me that Lucid would have CarPlay “by the end of the year.” Well here we are. It’s the end of the year and still no CarPlay. So am I angry about that? Absolutely. I don’t like being lied to. Perhaps you find that to be acceptable, but I don't.
Now I'm hearing people say that, with regard to the contract we have with Lucid, “there isn’t a court anywhere in the US that would find Lucid in violation of anything in the use of “compatible” on their web site” a ridiculous statement. Further, if you want to get your money back on a car that promised you CarPlay people out here find that unacceptable. If Lucid lies to us about what the cars can do, “there isn’t a court anywhere in the US” that would do something about it, but if you want to get a refund on your thousand dollars down payment, because Lucid lied, forget it. That is the position many are taking.
As for the “speculation,” that you say you find of little use, that's all that's going on out here about Lucid and CarPlay. I've even heard people talk about how it's Apple's fault. God forbid we point the finger at Lucid. “There's licensing issues” some say. But of course, neither apple nor Lucid has ever said it has licensing issues. That is the speculation. That's speculation blaming Apple rather than Lucid when it is Lucid that lied.
Also, saying, Lucid “is certainly less deceptive (if at all) than other car companies out there; one just has to point to “full self driving” to see that” is just more of the same. You are saying, in affect, “if Lucid lied (you just can’t bring yourself to admit it did) Tesla was worse about its full self driving claims. But I don’t see how saying “Tesla is worse” addresses the issue. I don’t care if Tesla is worse. I care that Lucid has been lying to us. People need to stop making excuses for Lucid.
Finally, I will do as you ask. I will leave you some constructive criticism. Lucid needs to put out a press release. Are they or are they not going to release CarPlay and Android Auto for the Lucid? It is a simple request that Lucid should not fear addressing unless they don’t plan on releasing it. I am not at all impressed by Lucid's inability to write decent software. I don't know how anyone justifies the idea that Lucid can sit silently by and not tell people what they are they going to do about an issue that is clearly the number one problem and that they've been promising in their sales literature. If Lucid gets hit with a class action on this, it will diminish my car, and yours, considerably. I don't want to see that.
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