Problems, glitches, issues and observations etc

[hmp10]

The rate of Covid inside Tesla's Fremont factory was/is lower than the surrounding Alameda County.

This overlooks the fact that the increased spread of Covid in Alameda County was thought to have been aided by the reopening of a factory with thousands of workers in close proximity to each other at a time when most of the people in the county were remaining relatively more isolated.

And don't forget that Musk was an anti-vaxxer who fancied himself better able to understand the science of immunology than the medical community.

There is no law against yoke steering devices in the US EU or China. Don't like it don't buy it. Toyota is introducing the BZ4x in China and maybe Japan with yoke steering.

I did not say there was a law against it. I said Tesla did not wait for an NHTSA administration review of whether a device such as a yoke introduced safety issues, which is one of the reasons the agency was established.

Musk agreed not to tweet about non disclosed materially relevant info that would affect Tesla stock price without prior review of Tesla legal team.

Yes, and Musk subsequently violated that agreement when he tweeted that Tesla's stock price was too high and discussed solar rooftop panel production numbers, both without the approval of his chief counsel as was required. The SEC issued a public admonishment for that violation.


And don't forget that Musk outright lied about the role Peter Rawlinson played in the development of the Model S, as proved by Tesla's own press releases at the time Rawlinson joined Tesla and by other events of record.

As for buying a Tesla, we have owned two because, at the time, they were the only game in town if you wanted a sporty, high-performance EV and were willing to accept certain compromises. With Lucid and others entering the arena, we have almost certainly bought our last Tesla.

 

[Lucken]

I don't get the impression that the "software" is part of the quality control. Based on reports here it would take a very long time to go through every potential situation software can encounter off the line. You'd never produce a car. ICE cars have not been this dependent on their software until the last two decades. Even still many will still run if you bypass certain components. It seems EV its all or none car and software are one.

I disagree, cars whose doors don't lock or lock the driver inside unless they're carrying a cellphone with the Lucid app, should be picked up in QC and its presence enough to deter the car from being released. Likewise, frequent screen blackouts should also be grounds from withholding the car. If you tout 'perfect' or 'nearly perfect' cars as one of the main hallmarks for your existence and at least part of the justification for a $170,000 price tag, you don't let things like this happen. Some of these issues are serious and not flip software bugs. If it was a $25,000 Corolla I'd be furious. I don't care if the issues are mechanical or software driven, you don't release a car like that to the customer.

I'm upset for hmp10, who had every right to have expected a far better first experience with the car he's waited for, for so long. We shall surely agree to disagree.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I disagree, cars whose doors don't lock or lock the driver inside unless they're carrying a cellphone with the Lucid app, should be picked up in QC and its presence enough to deter the car from being released. Likewise, frequent screen blackouts should also be grounds from withholding the car. If you tout 'perfect' or 'nearly perfect' cars as one of the main hallmarks for your existence and at least part of the justification for a $170,000 price tag, you don't let things like this happen. Some of these issues are serious and not flip software bugs. If it was a $25,000 Corolla I'd be furious. I don't care if the issues are mechanical or software driven, you don't release a car like that to the customer.

I'm upset for hmp10, who had every right to have expected a far better first experience with the car he's waited for, for so long. We shall surely agree to disagree.

Like many of us I am am slated to get one of these soon. I plan NOT to use Alexa. I agree it should be picked up in QC if it fails but what if failure is a memory stack/StackOverflowError? In other words takes time to occur.

"We have a 1201...1201"

 

[hmp10]

I disagree, cars whose doors don't lock or lock the driver inside unless they're carrying a cellphone with the Lucid app, should be picked up in QC and its presence enough to deter the car from being released. Likewise, frequent screen blackouts should also be grounds from withholding the car.

I think the issue here is that these software problems only show up sporadically and, unlike most mechanical or cosmetic faults, might well elude even a thorough post-assembly inspection on a lot of cars.

When I first spoke with Zak Edson about delivery, he told me my car was already off the production line but still had to go through final inspection. He warned me that if issues emerged in that inspection, the car would not be delivered by year end, and there was nothing he could or would try to do about that. I told him I agreed that should be the case. Based on some comments he made about transport, I got the impression that it was with shipping logistics that he thought he might be able to help speed things along.

I want to say again: the car I got is flawless in terms of paint quality, panel alignment, interior fit & finish, absence of squeaks or rattles. In decades of buying cars, the Lucid is joined only by the Audi R8s I bought in that accomplishment. (Is it a coincidence that Peter Hochholdinger designed and ran the factories in which the Lucid and the R8s were manufactured?)

The software problems I have range from annoying to deeply aggravating, but as I posted before I got the car, I was braced to expect some of this on the software front. I'm a bit worried that the fixes to the software issues I'm seeing aren't going to come as quickly as I hoped, but I believe they will come in due course.

 

[hydbob]

I disagree, cars whose doors don't lock or lock the driver inside unless they're carrying a cellphone with the Lucid app, should be picked up in QC and its presence enough to deter the car from being released. Likewise, frequent screen blackouts should also be grounds from withholding the car. If you tout 'perfect' or 'nearly perfect' cars as one of the main hallmarks for your existence and at least part of the justification for a $170,000 price tag, you don't let things like this happen. Some of these issues are serious and not flip software bugs. If it was a $25,000 Corolla I'd be furious. I don't care if the issues are mechanical or software driven, you don't release a car like that to the customer.

I'm upset for hmp10, who had every right to have expected a far better first experience with the car he's waited for, for so long. We shall surely agree to disagree.

I mean..yes and no? Even after the techs went out there, they drove the car together and everything was working fine. Let's say a car comes off the production line and during the QC testing, no glitches arise. How does the QC test that they supposedly put every car through catch something that didn't show up? It doesn't sound like the problems are reproducible in a regular fashion or by doing certain things.

I wad able to reproduce issues on my car by performing specific functions. That is a much easier problem to address. I'm not giving Lucid a pass, but it could simply be that everything was working fine when they tested it. Alex had the same software supposedly and his car isn't having issues.

 

[hmp10]

. . . what if failure is a memory stack/StackOverflowError? In other words takes time to occur.

Interesting that you say that. We picked up a friend for dinner last night who is a software engineer and programmer. As I was explaining the symptoms we were seeing, he started talking about memory stacks and overflow errors. I had no idea what he was saying, but it seems he has the same suspicion you do.

 

[hmp10]

Even after the techs went out there, they drove the car together and everything was working fine.

Exactly right. We took a 40-mile round trip drive to a restaurant the night before the mobile techs arrived, and everything worked fine. This left me worried that I'd have the classic situation where you arrive at a dealer service department only to find the problem you went there for won't present itself in front of the mechanic. As luck would have it, the lower screen froze as soon as the mobile techs arrived yesterday, and they were able to get a screen shot and document it for IT.

After the hard reset they were told to do, I went on two test drives with them as they continued to reprogram devices after the reset and then took a test drive after they left. Although we knew they had not fixed the Alexa problems, the screens functioned fine every time. Then, two hours later, we got back in the car to head out to dinner and found the upper and lower screens blanked out yet again.

It is very easy to believe this car behaved just fine on the software front during final inspection at the factory.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

In California we have a "lemon" law which essentially states that after the car has been in for the same repair multiple times with unsatisfactory results, it can be returned for a full refund to the manufacturer. Not sure if Florida has a similar law??

 

[hydbob]

Yea, I wonder how that law applies to EVs with software. Is it "software" issues or would it be, screen freeze is separate from parking sensor which is separate from something else.

 

[Paladin732]

CA has both a Lemon Law and they have this: https://www.ncdsusa.org/consumers/automotive-warranty-disputes/ We actually had to use NCDS to get our Center screen in our Model S replaced several years ago. It is essentially binding arbitration for the automaker but not the consumer. (Worked quite well, and quite a few claims were filed against Tesla for those screens back then).

All states have Lemon Laws AFAIK. CA is one of the more generous ones, but they all tend to have them.

It would be interesting to see what role software plays in the Lemon Law world. However, I wouldn't want to pursue it this early(besides of which, the cars are currently reselling at a profit). I would absolutely prefer to give Lucid a chance to fix the software issues. I would just make sure to document the issues if it ever came to that. We have seen quite a few threads where support and service keep mentioning a significantly improved software experience coming soon.

Every interaction I have had with them has made it clear they want to do right by the customers, they are just facing "growing pains". I would prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt, BUT, that will run out relatively quickly.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

CA has both a Lemon Law and they have this: https://www.ncdsusa.org/consumers/automotive-warranty-disputes/ We actually had to use NCDS to get our Center screen in our Model S replaced several years ago. It is essentially binding arbitration for the automaker but not the consumer. (Worked quite well, and quite a few claims were filed against Tesla for those screens back then).

All states have Lemon Laws AFAIK. CA is one of the more generous ones, but they all tend to have them.

It would be interesting to see what role software plays in the Lemon Law world. However, I wouldn't want to pursue it this early(besides of which, the cars are currently reselling at a profit). I would absolutely prefer to give Lucid a chance to fix the software issues. I would just make sure to document the issues if it ever came to that. We have seen quite a few threads where support and service keep mentioning a significantly improved software experience coming soon.

Every interaction I have had with them has made it clear they want to do right by the customers, they are just facing "growing pains". I would prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt, BUT, that will run out relatively quickly.

Behavior is one that appears to be able to be fixed with a software upgrade or worst case scenario a memory chip change. I'd revert my car to its simplest form, no resets no facial recognition, Alexa or any of that and see if same issues arise.

 

[hellolucid]

my 2 cents as a software engineer:

Lucid is a new car manufacturer and both hardware and software issues are expected. Fortunately, there are no hardware issues that i recall seeing in this forum (except for the wireless charger getting scratched on). Hardware issues are much more expensive to fix. Software issues can be fixed over the air and so far, they are doing a great job at that (two updates in the past month and half iirc). Right now their engineers are probably back to work after 1 week of holidays and getting into their groove. I wouldn't be surprised if most of these software issues are fixed in the next 3-4 weeks. Remember Apple's "you're holding it wrong" when people experienced dropped calls on their new iPhones? At least, Lucid is not blaming the customer, instead, they owning up to their software issues which is a good sign.

No matter how many QA engineers they have, there are going to be bugs that go into production and issues that magically disappear when service tech comes to visit ("it was working on my machine" har har).

I have been following r/teslamotors and r/realTesla for many years and i know Tesla is plagued with issues. Their fanboys keep defending them but the quality is not on par with a $50k car (panel gaps, no blind spot monitoring on the side mirrors [their video camera feed implementation is stupid], horrible sales experience etc.). Their self driving is a joke in anything other than perfect weather conditions. The other day i was trying to see if autopark works in a really tight parking spot (like downtown areas) and i couldn't find any videos. So far, Tesla has been over promising and under delivering even after 10yrs of manufacturing.

So i would give Lucid some slack and wait a little longer before judging.

 

[hydbob]

So question for people more familiar with the issue than I am...for the Alexa issues, is the problem with Alexa or with Lucid. My guess I'd a little of both, but anyone who has experience with Alexa able to weigh in on how many or how much of the problem is something that Lucid isn't able to control on their end? I've only ever tried using it for music which is working for me without issue using Tidal or Spotify.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

my 2 cents as a software engineer:

Lucid is a new car manufacturer and both hardware and software issues are expected. Fortunately, there are no hardware issues that i recall seeing in this forum (except for the wireless charger getting scratched on). Hardware issues are much more expensive to fix. Software issues can be fixed over the air and so far, they are doing a great job at that (two updates in the past month and half iirc). Right now their engineers are probably back to work after 1 week of holidays and getting into their groove. I wouldn't be surprised if most of these software issues are fixed in the next 3-4 weeks. Remember Apple's "you're holding it wrong" when people experienced dropped calls on their new iPhones? At least, Lucid is not blaming the customer, instead, they owning up to their software issues which is a good sign.

No matter how many QA engineers they have, there are going to be bugs that go into production and issues that magically disappear when service tech comes to visit ("it was working on my machine" har har).

I have been following r/teslamotors and r/realTesla for many years and i know Tesla is plagued with issues. Their fanboys keep defending them but the quality is not on par with a $50k car (panel gaps, no blind spot monitoring on the side mirrors [their video camera feed implementation is stupid], horrible sales experience etc.). Their self driving is a joke in anything other than perfect weather conditions. The other day i was trying to see if autopark works in a really tight parking spot (like downtown areas) and i couldn't find any videos. So far, Tesla has been over promising and under delivering even after 10yrs of manufacturing.

So i would give Lucid some slack and wait a little longer before judging.

Well I was just told of a major hardware issue. USB ports are wired for power only. So that has wide implications. Really, bad decision...

This could be the root of many of these issues...? @hmp10 how did tech connect to the car using the OBDII???

What is HIGHLY short sighted here is I will be driving across the states of California, Nevada and Arizona through areas with NO CELL coverage. Car already has NO Sirius XM. This was not thought through. Cell coverage is not that good everywhere. I get dropped on my way to work occasionally in the city of Indianapolis...

 

[Lucken]

I’m not sure if others think like I do, but I can tell you from my experience with Tesla there’s one thing that bothers me more with cars than almost anything else, uncertainty.

Will the screen go blank as I put the car in reverse and can’t see anything? It didn’t work yesterday, but it did 2 days ago. Will a soft or hard reboot work this time around? It worked yesterday but didn’t work last week. Will I lose the radio on this trip? That happened last week, what about today?

You get the idea, uncertainty is a real bummer for me. Other than rattles, nothing impacts my perception of quality more than uncertainty.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

I’m not sure if others think like I do, but I can tell you from my experience with Tesla there’s one thing that bothers me more with cars than almost anything else, uncertainty.

Will the screen go blank as I put the car in reverse and can’t see anything? It didn’t work yesterday, but it did 2 days ago. Will a soft or hard reboot work this time around? It worked yesterday but didn’t work last week. Will I lose the radio on this trip? That happened last week, what about today?

You get the idea, uncertainty is a real bummer for me. Other than rattles, nothing impacts my perception of quality more than uncertainty.

I agree. Lucid appears to be super secretive about everything. Won't allow fly-overs, wouldn't tell @hmp10 color made a difference in getting his car. Dolby Atmos in is truest form REQUIRES a Tidal subscription. What's next???

 

[hydbob]

I agree. Lucid appears to be super secretive about everything. Won't allow fly-overs, wouldn't tell @hmp10 color made a difference in getting his car. Dolby Atmos in is truest form REQUIRES a Tidal subscription. What's next???

I don't get the hangup on this? Can Dolby be upscale and maintain quality? If not, wasn't it always the case that some Dolby source would always be required to have Dolby sound?

 

[hydbob]

Well I was just told of a major hardware issue. USB ports are wired for power only. So that has wide implications. Really, bad decision...

This could be the root of many of these issues...? @hmp10 how did tech connect to the car using the OBDII???

What is HIGHLY short sighted here is I will be driving across the states of California, Nevada and Arizona through areas with NO CELL coverage. Car already has NO Sirius XM. This was not thought through. Cell coverage is not that good everywhere. I get dropped on my way to work occasionally in the city of Indianapolis...

Did Lucid say that the USB ports were power only? I don't recall seeing that anywhere.

 

[Dortreo]

Two mobile techs arrived right on time in a service vehicle bigger and better equipped than any mobile service vehicle I've seen from Tesla. (This summer a Tesla tech arrived in a 2015 Model S with the rear hatch loaded with tools and paraphernalia. I had just found that the rear sun mesh from our 2015 Model S would not fit the Plaid, so I donated it to him, as he said that things got hot to the touch back there.)

I had sent a detailed description of the latest problems I was having to Lucid Customer Care before 6:00 a.m. this morning, and it had already been forwarded to and read by the techs by the time they arrived.

Lucid seems to have delivered on its promise to have service capability in place from the start of deliveries. As aggravating as the car has been thus far, every single contact with Service so far has been all anyone could expect. Now, we'll see if they can actually fix the problems I'm having . . . .

Is that really your driveway? I don't see any alligators.

 

[borski]

There are a few times when I drive the car and have none of the problems I experience most of the time. Earlier cars were delivered with 100 miles on the odometer, and the DMV affidavit I was asked to sign showed a delivery odometer reading of 100 miles. My car was delivered with 14 miles on it. I'm wondering if the addition of more QC posts on the production line that we heard about, the working of kinks out of the production line, and the attempts to deliver as many cars by year end as possible led them to shortening the post-production test driving during which things such as software instability have a better chance of revealing themselves?

The 100 miles is just a minimum in certain states like CA - it can be any number under 100, if it’s a brand new car, but the paperwork will say 100.