Open letter to Lucid after 7 months of ownership

[BS8899]

I find it amusing people are comparing Lucid's software to Rivian and acting like Rivian is king. While I did sell my Rivian a little over a year ago, its software was awful during my ownership. So was its hardware. I wanted to love that truck so badly, but its constant failings, trips to the service center, and reboots in my 13 months of ownership made that the worst ownership experience I've ever had.

Meanwhile, I've had my Lucid for 3 months and while the software gets weird once in a while, the car has never left me stranded. I've not needed to have repeated calls to the service center (although I have had to call them once or twice for minor things we resolved over the phone). So yeah, Lucid's software is whatever. Tidal could be better, built-in Apple Music would be great, I wish Nav wouldn't fully reset itself every time I stop to charge on a road trip, I wish it could wake up via the app faster, etc.

But overall it could be much worse. I hear Rivian's software is better now than when I owned mine, but it also shows that things can change pretty quickly when a company places its focus there. So I have hope we'll be in a better place before too long.

My personal experience with Rivian started in Nov 2023, probably right around the time when you sold your Rivian. As I said in my post, I don't love everything on the Rivian SW suit, but it seems to work as intended. Perhaps they've fixed a lot of the issues since your ownership.

SW refinement is, in my experience, an iterative exercise. The pertinent question is whether you drag your customers through the early iterations or, you do enough validation and bug fixes before you release the OTA.

Also, keep in mind that Rivian's volume is about 8X that of Lucid's. As such, Rivian has a much larger database to work from for their SW refinement. Rivian's OTA is also much more detailed about what changes and bug fixes are in the OTA. Lucid's OTAs are much more cryptic.

As Lucid's product line and volume broaden, the OTA compatibility across the trims/models will be very challenging. Lucid needs a holistic plan on how they are going to manage this landscape.

 

[Halodde]

I find it amusing people are comparing Lucid's software to Rivian and acting like Rivian is king. While I did sell my Rivian a little over a year ago, its software was awful during my ownership. So was its hardware. I wanted to love that truck so badly, but its constant failings, trips to the service center, and reboots in my 13 months of ownership made that the worst ownership experience I've ever had.

Meanwhile, I've had my Lucid for 3 months and while the software gets weird once in a while, the car has never left me stranded. I've not needed to have repeated calls to the service center (although I have had to call them once or twice for minor things we resolved over the phone). So yeah, Lucid's software is whatever. Tidal could be better, built-in Apple Music would be great, I wish Nav wouldn't fully reset itself every time I stop to charge on a road trip, I wish it could wake up via the app faster, etc.

But overall it could be much worse. I hear Rivian's software is better now than when I owned mine, but it also shows that things can change pretty quickly when a company places its focus there. So I have hope we'll be in a better place before too long.

I agree with the OP on much of the sentiment. And I also agree with this. The grass is always greener, right? I've been driving a Wagoneer rental for a week and a half. And while I'm enjoying being able to use AA, the entire infotainment system froze twice yesterday when I was in unfamiliar areas so I had to use my phone for nav.

My neighbor's new Caddy was in the shop last year for over a month for malfunctions, too.

The point is, we all expect perfection or close to it. But we live in a world where manufacturers are pressured to release products quickly and well before they are perfect. There's no magic bullet for Lucid or anyone else.

As consumers, we have to either accept products as is or stay away from the cutting (bleeding) edge.

The OP was well written and seems to be respectful with the best intentions of providing feedback to Lucid. Just like Bobby's wish list. I agree that the majority of the American public will stay far away from anything Lucid or other manufacturers produce unless it is less expensive AND very user friendly. To that point, they will hopefully make significant improvements quickly so the midsize will be well received. IMO, if they launched it having the same problems as the Air currently has, they would only sell a small fraction of what they could.

 

[momo3605]

My personal experience with Rivian started in Nov 2023, probably right around the time when you sold your Rivian. As I said in my post, I don't love everything on the Rivian SW suit, but it seems to work as intended. Perhaps they've fixed a lot of the issues since your ownership.

SW refinement is, in my experience, an iterative exercise. The pertinent question is whether you drag your customers through the early iterations or, you do enough validation and bug fixes before you release the OTA.

Also, keep in mind that Rivian's volume is about 8X that of Lucid's. As such, Rivian has a much larger database to work from for their SW refinement. Rivian's OTA is also much more detailed about what changes and bug fixes are in the OTA. Lucid's OTAs are much more cryptic.

As Lucid's product line and volume broaden, the OTA compatibility across the trims/models will be very challenging. Lucid needs a holistic plan on how they are going to manage this landscape.

My experience mirrors yours. Rivian's software has generally been rock solid for me. Yes...back in 2022 it had some finnickiness. But monthly updates removed more bugs than they added and the constant barrage of updates has mostly turned them into a Tesla software competitor at this point. They bought ABRP and had that integrated into the Rivian app and UI within 2 months. They've been blazing fast when it comes to responding to feedback and software. Their head of software development does regular AMAs on Reddit and literally integrates asks from there directly into the software within a couple months

 

[BS8899]

My experience mirrors yours. Rivian's software has generally been rock solid for me. Yes...back in 2022 it had some finnickiness. But monthly updates removed more bugs than they added and the constant barrage of updates has mostly turned them into a Tesla software competitor at this point. They bought ABRP and had that integrated into the Rivian app and UI within 2 months. They've been blazing fast when it comes to responding to feedback and software. Their head of software development does regular AMAs on Reddit and literally integrates asks from there directly into the software within a couple months

Yes, Rivian updates have been frequent and bug free.

The data I saw suggest Lucid shipped (slightly) less than 20kU since inception. Rivian shipped more than 51kU in 2024 alone. Keep in mind that Rivian also has a commercial product line. Thus, their knowledge and database is much larger than that of Lucid's.

Inasmuch as I'd love to see many Gravity SW features (and key FOB) waterfall to the Air trims, I seriously doubt that would (or should) happen. Gravity is supposed to have a different (faster/more memory) computer. Also, witness the difficulties with the recent OTA 2.4.X rollout across the different trims/variants of just the Air. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the bug-exposure goes up geometrically/ exponentially as the number of trims/platforms proliferate. I can't see how Lucid would be able to mange that with their track record.

Hence, I think Lucid should come clean (clear) with statements as to what the owners can expect in terms of OTAs and features going forward. While the "same" features (e.g., DD) might be invoked in various trims, I am doubtful if they can be (or should be) done on the same OTA and on the same schedule.

As many owners alluded to, the current owners are probably the risk-takers and more tolerant of bugs and OTAs. The next 20k customers will likely be much less forgiving!

 

[sri]

My experience mirrors yours. Rivian's software has generally been rock solid for me. Yes...back in 2022 it had some finnickiness. But monthly updates removed more bugs than they added and the constant barrage of updates has mostly turned them into a Tesla software competitor at this point. They bought ABRP and had that integrated into the Rivian app and UI within 2 months. They've been blazing fast when it comes to responding to feedback and software. Their head of software development does regular AMAs on Reddit and literally integrates asks from there directly into the software within a couple months

If Lucid's goal is to compete with Mercedes, BMW, and other traditional luxury brands, it might fall short of matching or surpassing the software quality of Tesla or Rivian. I hope I’m wrong , but from what I’ve observed with other modern automotive brands, we seem to be lagging further behind in software every day.

I spoke with Lucid employees at an event in Florida, and it’s clear that consumer priorities are shifting. While the older generation valued the driving experience, today's buyers are increasingly focused on software features and high-tech innovations. Many of my friends, for example, care less about how a car drives and more about safety features and software capabilities when spending $100k on a vehicle.

 

[hydbob]

If Lucid's goal is to compete with Mercedes, BMW, and other traditional luxury brands, it might fall short of matching or surpassing the software quality of Tesla or Rivian. I hope I’m wrong , but from what I’ve observed with other modern automotive brands, we seem to be lagging further behind in software every day.

I spoke with Lucid employees at an event in Florida, and it’s clear that consumer priorities are shifting. While the older generation valued the driving experience, today's buyers are increasingly focused on software features and high-tech innovations. Many of my friends, for example, care less about how a car drives and more about safety features and software capabilities when spending $100k on a vehicle.

Porsche - Hold My Beer

 

[Joelaron]

So... picked up the car today. I love my service guy, Travis, but their service center is a f'ing joke. Looking at my invoice for the service, they did correct the camera issues and ambient lights, but the one thing that literally draws blood... the DD button on the steering wheel, they said that they looked and could not find anything wrong... so i showed Travis when I got back into my car.. and was amazed that they didn't do anything, and now they want to send a tech guy to me at home to correct it. I mean.... COMMUNICATION!!! All they need to do.. is TALK to the customer instead of putting on the invoice:

 

[momo3605]

So... picked up the car today. I love my service guy, Travis, but their service center is a f'ing joke. Looking at my invoice for the service, they did correct the camera issues and ambient lights, but the one thing that literally draws blood... the DD button on the steering wheel, they said that they looked and could not find anything wrong... so i showed Travis when I got back into my car.. and was amazed that they didn't do anything, and now they want to send a tech guy to me at home to correct it. I mean.... COMMUNICATION!!! All they need to do.. is TALK to the customer instead of putting on the invoice: View attachment 26038

Lol, Travis is my SA too. He’s a really nice guy. But yea communication is definitely an issue. They spent 4 appointments trying to adjust my wipers from not streaking. Didn’t even look like they bothered to test the wipers after supposed adjustments. The last time I stood with the guy and literally one minor adjustment and in 5 minutes they were perfect. Sigh…

 

[Joelaron]

Lol, Travis is my SA too. He’s a really nice guy. But yea communication is definitely an issue. They spent 4 appointments trying to adjust my wipers from not streaking. Didn’t even look like they bothered to test the wipers after supposed adjustments. The last time I stood with the guy and literally one minor adjustment and in 5 minutes they were perfect. Sigh…

lol! ya know how in your head, there's a full team of technicians with lab coats and clipboards (with black lucid baseball caps on)... it's probably just Travis, Fred, and a greasy dude that does the work as they wait for news from headquarters on what they need to do next, and move on to the next car... so they too are probably dealing with lackluster engineer feedback as Newark regroups from their Gravity high. Looking at my work order.. all they did for two weeks.. calibrate cameras and reset the A/C. albeit the cameras WORK and are snappy to turn on.

 

[Batteryman]

Lol, Travis is my SA too. He’s a really nice guy. But yea communication is definitely an issue. They spent 4 appointments trying to adjust my wipers from not streaking. Didn’t even look like they bothered to test the wipers after supposed adjustments. The last time I stood with the guy and literally one minor adjustment and in 5 minutes they were perfect. Sigh…

At least they tried 4 times.....making that effort....vs telling you this is normal, go away

 

[Batteryman]

So... picked up the car today. I love my service guy, Travis, but their service center is a f'ing joke. Looking at my invoice for the service, they did correct the camera issues and ambient lights, but the one thing that literally draws blood... the DD button on the steering wheel, they said that they looked and could not find anything wrong... so i showed Travis when I got back into my car.. and was amazed that they didn't do anything, and now they want to send a tech guy to me at home to correct it. I mean.... COMMUNICATION!!! All they need to do.. is TALK to the customer instead of putting on the invoice: View attachment 26038

At least they are looking to fix whatever is wrong....and they are not ignoring the issue.....people complaining about every little thing.....

 

[Batteryman]

To all those complainers...my Model s had a steering wheel vibration when driving in cold weather...what did Tesla do- hey, its normal.....we don't need to fix it. Lucid service is miles better.

Sometimes you forget reality and have unreasonable expectations.

These are minor things, go enjoy driving your car, you know Lucid will eventually get things right.

 

[Blue Lectroid]

I find a lot of the complaining on this forum both completely counter to my personal experience with Lucid thus far as well as really confusing given the experience I had with all four of my wife and my most recent cars — a Tesla Model 3 Performance from 2018, a 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5, a 2016 Chevy Volt and a 2012 Chevy Volt. Every one of them had issues, several of those far worse than what folks complain about here.

Dealing with Lucid as a company, however, has been far more pleasurable than Hyundai, Tesla or GM. I feel like I am being treated like a person by real people at Lucid…and that counts for a lot IMHO.

Also, again, for those doom and gloom folks prognosticating that software will be the ruin of Lucid.

 

[momo3605]

I find a lot of the complaining on this forum both completely counter to my personal experience with Lucid thus far as well as really confusing given the experience I had with all four of my wife and my most recent cars — a Tesla Model 3 Performance from 2018, a 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5, a 2016 Chevy Volt and a 2012 Chevy Volt. Every one of them had issues, several of those far worse than what folks complain about here.

Dealing with Lucid as a company, however, has been far more pleasurable than Hyundai, Tesla or GM. I feel like I am being treated like a person by real people at Lucid…and that counts for a lot IMHO.

Also, again, for those doom and gloom folks prognosticating that software will be the ruin of Lucid.

Lucid has like 17 customers. Of course the service experience is better and more personal. Rivian was like that in the early days when I got my car. After they sold another 20x the number of cars, the service responsiveness went down the drain. Same with Tesla. I don’t actually think service is an issue with Lucid at all. (At least not yet).

Just as OP said, it all comes back to software. It’s not even adding new features. There’s no much random instability. If you try to play music while you’re at home connected to WiFi and you leave within a certain amount of time, too fast, you’ll just randomly lose connectivity for like 10 minutes. No internet maps, nada. Or the screen will black out for no reason, or the touch elements will stop responding. And then randomly it’ll come back after a leisurely amount of time. Once you’ve owned your car for a few months I think you’ll start to get a feel for all the things you had taken for granted in a Tesla that will start to become annoyances once again. But If not, good for you! I still think the vast majority of potential buyers won’t put up with all the UX glitches and issues.

 

[BS8899]

Lucid has like 17 customers. Of course the service experience is better and more personal. Rivian was like that in the early days when I got my car. After they sold another 20x the number of cars, the service responsiveness went down the drain. Same with Tesla. I don’t actually think service is an issue with Lucid at all. (At least not yet).

Just as OP said, it all comes back to software. It’s not even adding new features. There’s no much random instability. If you try to play music while you’re at home connected to WiFi and you leave within a certain amount of time, too fast, you’ll just randomly lose connectivity for like 10 minutes. No internet maps, nada. Or the screen will black out for no reason, or the touch elements will stop responding. And then randomly it’ll come back after a leisurely amount of time. Once you’ve owned your car for a few months I think you’ll start to get a feel for all the things you had taken for granted in a Tesla that will start to become annoyances once again. But If not, good for you! I still think the vast majority of potential buyers won’t put up with all the UX glitches and issues

@momo3605 is correct. The doom-and-gloom folks complaining about SW (e.g., @marsarbu) are concerned folks who want Lucid to improve their attention on SW in order to match the mechanical prowess of their cars.

We are mixing the issues of the Service Center's performance vs SW bugs. While I mention the SW bugs to the SC, I have no expectations that they can or will fix them. SW bug fixes belong to the factory and the SW development/validation engineers.

As I posted earlier, I am perfectly satisfied with what my SC (Scottsdale) have done to service my car. But the SC cannot/does not fix SW issues. The frustration you see is precipitated by lingering unresolved SW issues, botched OTAs, Lucid blaming partners (e.g., Google on AA) on SW delays, and no communicated plans and schedules to address the issues.

Rawlinson acknowledges SW is their Archelle's heel. It is the limiting factor impeding Lucid to reach higher volume and launch new models. They need to get serious about it.

 

[Green G]

I want to say that I enjoyed reading this series of posts but it’s like eating a bag of chips: it starts good but in the end you feel nauseous.

In my early days on this forum I vented about my experience acquiring the AGT and railed against the process. Mea maxima culpa. I now LOVE driving my car and definitely want the SW to improve. It’s the best car I have ever driven.
What I fail to understand is what repeated lashings against Lucid actually hope to accomplish. I mean, seriously, do you really think that anything you’re saying is new to the company? Please understand that I am not being disrespectful to any of the forum members; on the contrary: you all teach me a lot. That said, every other day (or so it seems), there is a catharsis of sorts, a confessional even some expressing relief as if their abscess was drained, spilling guts for all to read about how bad things were and are and announcing departures, physical or emotional. Are they hoping to keep the beatings going until the product improves? Yes, Lucid needs feedback but there are avenues to do so directly with them. I communicated with the executive team around my displeasure with the acquisition process and got prompt replies (as a method of escalation - becoming a Karen of sorts).

I wholeheartedly agree with some who have promoted the suggestion of communicating with Lucid directly as a means to accomplish change. I also agree that communication/transparency should be better.

I cannot imagine that their execs are sitting in CA eating cupcakes laughing at those unhappy with the cars. I am sure they’re working at the speed that resources will allow which clearly is never fast enough.

If you’re not happy about your car, do what you would do with any other product: call/email/write to the customer service/CEO etc. Writing the things that everyone knows all over again, helps no one except maybe your own feelings.

 

[momo3605]

I wholeheartedly agree with some who have promoted the suggestion of communicating with Lucid directly as a means to accomplish change.

You said it yourself in your first paragraph… this is nothing new to Lucid. The question is…does management and the money bag holders think investing in UX and software is worth it compared to say discounting cars and shipping as many as they can out the door. From the looks of it, I would say no.

The purpose of an open letter or posted online is to bring buzz and attention from a large group to enact change. Make enough noise, go viral, force management to respond, even if they’d rather dig their head in the sand. As I said in a previous post, many of the issues, enhancements, ideas that Rivian gets and applies to their software updates comes from Reddit and forum posts!

Emailing the CEO…I guarantee that’s going straight into spam/trash.

 

[hydbob]

Like you said in your first paragraph this is nothing new to Lucid. The question is…does management and the money bag holders think investing in UX and software is worth it compared to say discounting cars and shipping as many as they can out the door. From the looks of it, I would say no.

The purpose of an open letter or posted online is to bring buzz and attention from a large group to enact change. Make enough noise, go viral, force management to respond, even if they’d rather dig their head in the sand. As I said in a previous post, many of the issues, enhancements, ideas that Rivian gets and applies to their software updates comes from Reddit and forum posts!

Emailing the CEO…I guarantee that’s going straight into spam/trash.

Just give it some time. Lots has improved since 1.0.4 and now their focus is on Gravity. The comparison to Rivian isn't exactly the same as these are two completely different vehicles and the R1T and R1S are very similar in what they need software wise compared to the Air vs Gravity.

 

[Green G]

Like you said in your first paragraph this is nothing new to Lucid. The question is…does management and the money bag holders think investing in UX and software is worth it compared to say discounting cars and shipping as many as they can out the door. From the looks of it, I would say no.

The purpose of an open letter or posted online is to bring buzz and attention from a large group to enact change. Make enough noise, go viral, force management to respond, even if they’d rather dig their head in the sand.

Emailing the CEO…I guarantee that’s going straight into spam/trash.

Discounting and shipping etc is basic business strategy. Both of us aren’t aware of the inner decision making in the company. With limited resources in a household paying your rent and insurance first and not renewing the furniture does not mean you don’t care about what your house looks like. It is, clearly, about priorities.

I also don’t think that it has been the “buzz” or momentum cast on this forum that has gotten the UX/SW improvement to 2.5, however flawed it may be. It then again, what do I know?

 

[Leftlane]

I find a lot of the complaining on this forum both completely counter to my personal experience with Lucid thus far as well as really confusing given the experience I had with all four of my wife and my most recent cars — a Tesla Model 3 Performance from 2018, a 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5, a 2016 Chevy Volt and a 2012 Chevy Volt. Every one of them had issues, several of those far worse than what folks complain about here.

Dealing with Lucid as a company, however, has been far more pleasurable than Hyundai, Tesla or GM. I feel like I am being treated like a person by real people at Lucid…and that counts for a lot IMHO.

Also, again, for those doom and gloom folks prognosticating that software will be the ruin of Lucid.

Your ownership experience with Lucid has been like 3 weeks with a brand new car, hopefully with every system updated.