Munro on 14-50 outlets for EV charging, and other worries

Electrified

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I watched half of the video, did they ever mention anything about aluminum wire? I ask because it looks like the receptacle and the melted box both look like they were wired with aluminum conductors.
There are specific methods that must be used when stripping and terminating aluminum conductors, unfortunately the specified methods are not always followed, and it doesn't matter if it's receptacle or a charging station, if it isn't wired properly something is going to fail.

It is also my qualified opinion that copper conductors should be used for the continuous load that EV charging requires.
I watched the whole video and they never mention aluminum wire.
 

Electrified

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ChargePoint specifically states: Use 90C wire conductors only. Haven't checked other EVSEs.
Most all building wire used today is THHN which is rated 90C, yet the breakers they are connected to are 75C and the current carrying load of the wire must be derated to 75C to match the temperature rating of the breaker.
 

NPN

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Oh it looks like Lucid charger is not on the list
I probably have to wait then

Any other charge on this list that anyone would recommend?
I've been very happy with Wallbox Pulsar Plus. You can use with either Wifi or Bluetooth which is an advantage in my garage which doesn't have reliable Wifi. Others on the forum also have this charger.
 

bunnylebowski

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I watched the whole video and they never mention aluminum wire.
I’m a little skeptical anytime Sandy says “I’ve never seen anything this bad, this is shocking” because he says it a lot about a lot of things. When my car is charging off my copper wire connected 50amp 14-50 plug, there is no detectable heat anywhere. This video scared me so I checked everything from cable to breaker box and there was zero increase in temperature during charging. I don’t have a Hubbel outlet either. It’s possible the Lucid does a good job of temperature control?
 

Volund

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I’m a little skeptical anytime Sandy says “I’ve never seen anything this bad, this is shocking” because he says it a lot about a lot of things. When my car is charging off my copper wire connected 50amp 14-50 plug, there is no detectable heat anywhere. This video scared me so I checked everything from cable to breaker box and there was zero increase in temperature during charging. I don’t have a Hubbel outlet either. It’s possible the Lucid does a good job of temperature control?
If he doesn't find some drama with anything he tests, his channel would die of lame, boring and well tested/created equipment.
It's the hype monsters who make the money and attract attention.

And as tech gets better, as well as engineering, he may not be able to poke fun at these companies anymore so picks some anomaly to bash on 🤣
 

bunnylebowski

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If he doesn't find some drama with anything he tests, his channel would die of lame, boring and well tested/created equipment.
It's the hype monsters who make the money and attract attention.

And as tech gets better, as well as engineering, he may not be able to poke fun at these companies anymore so picks some anomaly to bash on 🤣
What’s funny is the 14-50 outlet they say is the worst (Leviton?) is ubiquitous in hospital operating rooms pulling current 24/7. I realize some equipment doesn’t pull the amount of kW an EV would and operating rooms have a special electrical design with line isolation monitors in addition to GFCI, and of course were installed by professional electricians, but I don’t think you’re going to burn your house down or melt your outlet if you use a 14-50 plug to charge if it was installed properly.
 

Electrified

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I’m a little skeptical anytime Sandy says “I’ve never seen anything this bad, this is shocking” because he says it a lot about a lot of things. When my car is charging off my copper wire connected 50amp 14-50 plug, there is no detectable heat anywhere. This video scared me so I checked everything from cable to breaker box and there was zero increase in temperature during charging. I don’t have a Hubbel outlet either. It’s possible the Lucid does a good job of temperature control?
What that video did not discuss was the aluminum (AL) conductors that appeared to be used, while AL is a fine conductor and safe to use IT MUST BE terminated properly this includes stripping the insulator off, treating the bare conductor with an anti oxidizing compound, and last but not least torquing the conductor in the lug to the manufacturers specification. FTR copper must also be terminated properly even though it is a more robust material with lower resistance.

There are a lot of factors and methods that must be considered when designing and installing power for high load equipment such as our at home charging stations and receptacles. I'll bore you with some technical videos, but I would also recommend hiring a local contractor that belongs to the National Electrical Contractors Association (NECA) as those folks have the properly trained personnel to design and install your electrical charging system.

Remember, electrical installation is expensive, poor electrical installation is costly, but quality electrical installation is safe.


 

Electrified

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What’s funny is the 14-50 outlet they say is the worst (Leviton?) is ubiquitous in hospital operating rooms pulling current 24/7. I realize some equipment doesn’t pull the amount of kW an EV would and operating rooms have a special electrical design with line isolation monitors in addition to GFCI, and of course were installed by professional electricians, but I don’t think you’re going to burn your house down or melt your outlet if you use a 14-50 plug to charge if it was installed properly.
Great points, and most importantly installed properly and I will add... Designed properly!
 

bunnylebowski

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Great points, and most importantly installed properly and I will add... Designed properly!
Yeah luckily my installer is a master electrician who’s a friend of a friend, normally does big state projects like schools and hospitals but has started a side hustle installing not just home EV chargers but contracted to do some DCFC too, he did a Chargepoint at a Harley Davidson near me that works flawlessly every time (except it’s 62kw ☹️)
 

emoylv

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I’m a little skeptical anytime Sandy says “I’ve never seen anything this bad, this is shocking” because he says it a lot about a lot of things. When my car is charging off my copper wire connected 50amp 14-50 plug, there is no detectable heat anywhere. This video scared me so I checked everything from cable to breaker box and there was zero increase in temperature during charging. I don’t have a Hubbel outlet either. It’s possible the Lucid does a good job of temperature control?
I think any receptacle that is UL listed is good enough, assuming you are using it for its intended purpose, i.e. setting the charger at 40A maximum on a 14-50 receptacle. That's the purpose of Underwriter Laboratories. They test the product, and their seal of approval is not free.
 

emoylv

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I think any receptacle that is UL listed is good enough, assuming you are using it for its intended purpose, i.e. setting the charger at 40A maximum on a 14-50 receptacle. That's the purpose of Underwriter Laboratories. They test the product, and their seal of approval is not free.
If using outdoors, make sure enclosure is NEMA 3R (I think) rated, again for its intended purpose.
 

DeaneG

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What’s funny is the 14-50 outlet they say is the worst (Leviton?) is ubiquitous in hospital operating rooms pulling current 24/7. I realize some equipment doesn’t pull the amount of kW an EV would and operating rooms have a special electrical design with line isolation monitors in addition to GFCI, and of course were installed by professional electricians, but I don’t think you’re going to burn your house down or melt your outlet if you use a 14-50 plug to charge if it was installed properly.
Hospital grade receptacles (and industrial grade) from any manufacturer are much more robust than the $14 Legrand and Leviton spec grade outlets available at Home Depot. I think that's what Munro's people were warning about.
 

bunnylebowski

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Hospital grade receptacles (and industrial grade) from any manufacturer are much more robust than the $14 Legrand and Leviton spec grade outlets available at Home Depot. I think that's what Munro's people were warning about.
My hospital uses Leviton, unless there’s some other version of them that’s better?
 

BradSholl

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My hospital uses Leviton, unless there’s some other version of them that’s better?
Pretty sure those Leviton outlets have a green dot on them, signifying they are specced for hospital use. Can’t find those in Home Depot…
 

bunnylebowski

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Hmmm maybe mine was trying to save some $? No green dot.
 

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johnjbarton

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Is there any evidence that the receptacle fails vs poor install?

Here is a case with a picture of a burnt receptacle that was attributed to poor install: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/nema-14-50-plug-meltdown-near-fire.155492/
Same could happen with an EVSE install.

Failures of an outlet can have many causes and you can bet as the number rise we will see EVSE failures as well. Properly installed and used these devices are all much safer than driving your Lucid:
 

emoylv

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Hmmm maybe mine was trying to save some $? No green dot.
A green dot just means it's hospital grade. What THAT means is that they are sampled more frequently during a production run to ensure that they meet quality standards.
 

MikeTz

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Often failures are due to connections not being torqued down properly. A loose connection can create enough resistance to become a heat source that in an enclosed environment can raise the wire temperature to melting and/or igniting nearby materials. I suspect we will see changes to the code and the UL approval process soon, as more failure data becomes available.
 
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