Munro on 14-50 outlets for EV charging, and other worries

[DeaneG]

Just watched this video by Munro with a couple pros discussing the problems with using a 14-50 outlet to charge an EV. Also a few related worries to keep you awake on Halloween.
TL;DR don't use a 14-50 outlet, hardwire your charger instead. If you must use a 14-50 outlet, use one made by Hubbell or Cooper (~$100) rather than Leviton ($10).
If you are using a 14-50 outlet, you can periodically litmus-test it by charging your car for a while, then pull out the EVSE's plug from the outlet. Wait a couple seconds, then feel the prongs of the plug you just pulled out.They should be warm but not hot. Also feel around the circuit breaker and give it the sniff test - there should be no hot/burning smell.

 

[EVCar]

Just watched this video by Munro with a couple pros discussing the problems with using a 14-50 outlet to charge an EV. Also a few related worries to keep you awake on Halloween.
TL;DR don't use a 14-50 outlet, hardwire your charger instead. If you must use a 14-50 outlet, use one made by Hubbell or Cooper (~$100) rather than Leviton ($10).
If you are using a 14-50 outlet, you can periodically litmus-test it by charging your car for a while, then pull out the EVSE's plug from the outlet. Wait a couple seconds, then feel the prongs of the plug you just pulled out.They should be warm but not hot. Also feel around the circuit breaker and give it the sniff test - there should be no hot/burning smell.

Yep, Hubbell or Cooper only and beware of potential shortage due to supply chain issues.
All in all, I don’t see any reason not to hardwire, except for the initial labor cost. It’s much safer.

 

[DeaneG]

I suspect that installation cost for a hardwired charging station would be similar to that of having a 14-50 outlet installed and hanging the charger.
People always think they'll want the flexibility of taking their ten-year-old $500 14-50 charger with them next time they move. It's not worth the trouble or risk of a plug-in installation.

 

[OldAg]

I use a 14-50 plug. I don’t like that the Lucid doesn’t give you an option to set charge rate. Pulling 40 amps when unnecessary is something I don’t like. In my case I don’t drive much and would much rather have Lucid limit current draw to say 20 amps. It doesn’t matter to me how long it takes.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

I use a 14-50 plug. I don’t like that the Lucid doesn’t give you an option to set charge rate. Pulling 40 amps when unnecessary is something I don’t like. In my case I don’t drive much and would much rather have Lucid limit current draw to say 20 amps. It doesn’t matter to me how long it takes.

Yep. One of the reasons I installed a Wallbox Pulsar Plus. I can’t adjust from 6Amp to 40 in the app.

 

[stratus]

My 14-50s ( have 2 ) are very finicky . Often I have to reset the breaker. No major problems yet, but I must admit I do get worried when the Lucid cable keeps blinking red. Thanks for this reference.

 

[DeaneG]

My 14-50s ( have 2 ) are very finicky . Often I have to reset the breaker. No major problems yet, but I must admit I do get worried when the Lucid cable keeps blinking red. Thanks for this reference.

Is the breaker a GFCI type? If so, it should not work (can't run an EVSE on a GFCI-protected circuit), and you'd want to have an electrician replace the breaker with a non-GFCI type if legal in your locale and you feel safe enough with that (no children in the area).

If the breaker isn't a GFCI type and it is still tripping, something may be dangerously wrong.

Either way I'm thinking it's probably best to call an electrician.

 

[stratus]

Is the breaker a GFCI type? If so, it should not work (can't run an EVSE on a GFCI-protected circuit), and you'd want to have an electrician replace the breaker with a non-GFCI type if legal in your locale and you feel safe enough with that (no children in the area).

If the breaker isn't a GFCI type and it is still tripping, something may be dangerously wrong.

Either way I'm thinking it's probably best to call an electrician.

Sometimes it works flawlessly and other times it messes with me. I think I will take your advice and consult an electrician when I return in a week.

I better check my breaker

 

[OldAg]

Yep. One of the reasons I installed a Wallbox Pulsar Plus. I can’t adjust from 6Amp to 40 in the app.

I know there are options to address this issue. My point is Lucid can solve it with software and I don’t have to buy anything.

 

[stratus]

Is the breaker a GFCI type? If so, it should not work (can't run an EVSE on a GFCI-protected circuit), and you'd want to have an electrician replace the breaker with a non-GFCI type if legal in your locale and you feel safe enough with that (no children in the area).

If the breaker isn't a GFCI type and it is still tripping, something may be dangerously wrong.

Either way I'm thinking it's probably best to call an electrician.

Thanks again for taking the time to give advice. The breaker is GFCI . So, I started reading all these opinions and codes and regulations and now I am thoroughly confused. It seems that many individuals have a GFCI type of breaker when using the 14-50 plug, without incident. I may be missing something entirely because the plug typically works with the GFCI breaker. I don’t want my house to explode, at least not tonight.

 

[DeaneG]

Thanks again for taking the time to give advice. The breaker is GFCI . So, I started reading all these opinions and codes and regulations and now I am thoroughly confused. It seems that many individuals have a GFCI type of breaker when using the 14-50 plug, without incident. I may be missing something entirely because the plug typically works with the GFCI breaker. I don’t want my house to explode, at least not tonight.

It may work some or most of the time depending on specifics at your house (breaker manufacturer, charging unit manufacturer, and luck of the draw), and may not be reliable, but will certainly be safe. No hurries on that electrician but probably something to address long term.

 

[stratus]

It may work some or most of the time depending on specifics at your house (breaker manufacturer, charging unit manufacturer, and luck of the draw), and may not be reliable, but will certainly be safe. No hurries on that electrician but probably something to address long term.

Sounds great.

 

[Adnillien]

Thanks again for taking the time to give advice. The breaker is GFCI . So, I started reading all these opinions and codes and regulations and now I am thoroughly confused. It seems that many individuals have a GFCI type of breaker when using the 14-50 plug, without incident. I may be missing something entirely because the plug typically works with the GFCI breaker. I don’t want my house to explode, at least not tonight.

The problem is having that two GFCI's in series can cause false trips. The EVSE has GFCI protection built in and if the NEMA 14-50 plug is on a GFCI circuit, then you have two in series. It is not dangerous and does not create any risk. It does create the potential for false trips and for your EVSE to stop charging as @DeaneG points out. Hence, the advantage of a hard wired installation if your local code requires a GFCI on the NEMA 14-50 outlet.

 

[stratus]

The problem is having that two GFCI's in series can cause false trips. The EVSE has GFCI protection built in and if the NEMA 14-50 plug is on a GFCI circuit, then you have two in series. It is not dangerous and does not create any risk. It does create the potential for false trips and for your EVSE to stop charging as @DeaneG points out. Hence, the advantage of a hard wired installation if your local code requires a GFCI on the NEMA 14-50 outlet.

Yes, it is all starting to make sense. I am definitely going to investigate more options . I appreciate both of you giving me advice on this.

 

[Volund]

I'm still a little lost in all of the specifications.
I've talked with an electrician to come out and put a nema 14-50 Amp in my garage, but if that's not the way to go, what is recommended?
Would appreciate help there so I can have this stuff installed before the Lucid arrives

 

[Adnillien]

A 14-50 outlet on a 60 amp line will allow you to charge continously at 48A. Pretty much all you need for an EV.

A NEMA 14-50 outlet can only be put on a 50A breaker since the outlet itself is only rated for 50A. Hence, the EVSE can only draw 40A using the 14-50 outlet. This is still fast enough for me. You will need to be hard wired to be on a 60A circuit that would allow you to charge at 48A.

 

[Electrified]

There is no problem with Leviton devices, all the major manufacturers of electrical devices have different grades of device starting with: Residential Grade, Commercial Grade, Industrial Grade, Spec Grade, Hospital Grade, etc.

https://www.leviton.com/sites/REST/controller/LCProductListRestController/fullpdf/279-S00.pdf?products=279-S00&locale=en

https://www.leviton.com/en/docs/Straight_Blade_Receptacle_Board_Printed_Version_-_Q-1146.pdf

 

[stratus]

I'm still a little lost in all of the specifications.
I've talked with an electrician to come out and put a nema 14-50 Amp in my garage, but if that's not the way to go, what is recommended?
Would appreciate help there so I can have this stuff installed before the Lucid arrives

The Nema 14-50 has been adequate for me. I have had occasional frustrations with the Lucid plug giving me an error when inserting into the outlet. I am not entirely sure why, so I will consult an electrician . It is also quite difficult to insert the plug into the outlet, there is quite a bit of resistance. I used to take the plug out with every use , but according to Lucid, it’s best to leave it in the socket , unless you are going to be away for extended periods . In summary , for overnight charging , the 14-50 outlet , on a 40 or 50 amp, is great for overnight charging.

 

[DeaneG]

I'm still a little lost in all of the specifications.
I've talked with an electrician to come out and put a nema 14-50 Amp in my garage, but if that's not the way to go, what is recommended?
Would appreciate help there so I can have this stuff installed before the Lucid arrives

Buy a nice wall-mounted charging station (e.g. Chargepoint Home Flex to be used on a 50 or 60 amp breaker or Lucid's on a 60-100 amp breaker), and have the electrician hardwire it. EVs are here to stay. For the little additional money you might as well have a convenient, fast, stable, safe method for home charging your new car, and your next cars.

 

[Volund]

Buy a nice wall-mounted charging station (e.g. Chargepoint Home Flex to be used on a 50 or 60 amp breaker or Lucid's on a 60-100 amp breaker), and have the electrician hardwire it. EVs are here to stay. For the little additional money you might as well have a convenient, fast, stable, safe method for home charging your new car, and your next cars.

So to break that down a little further, if I opt to buy the Lucid home charger, then does that home charger operate off of a nema 14-50 or is it directly hard wired?

And I know a member posted a link here somewhere to buy that home charger, but I have to find it again, lost the resource.

And my electrician quoted me $1400 for installation, so that would put me under 3k for the full install