Lucid CEO critiques other EV-SUVs

I'll be two years into my GT ownership before Android Auto arrives. In the meantime, our Volvo's built in Google maps with EV charge planning, Google Assistant, Waze, Pocketcasts have been incomparably better than what the Air provides. It's night and day.

For this reason, and my perception that software isn't a priority at Lucid, I'll be looking at other SUV alternatives when the time comes.

I feel your pain. VW didn't invest $5 billion in Rivian because they needed their mechanical expertise - they want their software. It's vitally important that your software is just as good as your hardware because otherwise, it will cause people to look elsewhere.

I have high hopes for the Gravity and the company in general. Rawlinson is not known as a BS'er, so I hope his hyperbolic assessment of the Gravity has truth behind it. I will reserve judgement until seeing UX 3.0. Again, I hope that we will be pleasantly surprised...
 
Here is a link to the EPA test conditions. Highway speed testing done @60mph...
Though EPA test's average speed, upon which the efficiency and range figures are calculated, is in the 40mph range.
 
Here is the kind of OTAs that Rivian owners receive monthly or sometimes even bi-monthly. At this time there is no Dream Drive Pro equivalent to Rivian’s platform, so all of these OTAs go to the entire fleet. Video streaming comes next month.

I really think that Peter should worry about fixing the issues in his own backyard and stop mimicking Elon. He's picking a fight he can't win. On this forum we obsess about efficiency and interior dimensions, but the geveral public who buys EV SUVs doesn't really care. Lucid better get their price right and start taking software seriously, or they will never put a dent into Rivian market share. And yes, the R1S will be Gravity’s main competition whether they like it if not. People LOVE Rivian because of what they are doing with software advancements. The R1S I have today is light years better than the car I received last year and I can't say the same about my GT. I love both, but if I had to get rid of one it would be the GT, hands down. 15 service visits with my GT to 0 with my R1S and my R1s gets better every month, from efficiency, to ride quality to software improvements.


I've had my R1T for almost 2 years now and I know what you mean about it being a different vehicle since buying it. Nav, Music, Handling and performance, off road and now the whole operating system was updated last night with the gen 2 graphics and the promised side view mirror cameras when changing lanes.
 
Heck, if the Gravity is as good as Rawlinson says, I might go and buy one! This despite having no need for another car and especially despising SUVs... 🤣🤣🤣
 
It's vitally important that your software is just as good as your hardware because otherwise, it will cause people to look elsewhere.

I take your point, but I am one of those car owners to still view a car as a driving machine and passenger conveyance first and a rolling PDA second.

We bought our first Model S in 2015 and our second in 2021. While the software was considerably advanced in the later car, it was still a car with significant fit & finish issues, very cramped rear quarters, an under-compliant suspension, and a crescendo of body squeaks and groans.

After driving an Air for two and a half years, I'm pretty sure that it will remain a very roomy, well-put-together, and structurally sound car with great handling and ride compliance.

I lived through 10 months of UX 1.0 hell with the Air. But things took a big leap forward with UX 2.0 and have continued to improve since with the updates. At this point, I now prefer the software in our Lucid over our Tesla, both In terms of features and ease of use.

Hardware can't be upgraded on the fly. Software can.
 
Tesla model 3 real world efficiency isn't that different. Ioniq 6 efficiency can be slightly better. Lucid's drivetrain efficiency is world class, but not a miracle.
Sorry, but you don’t get it. It’s a combination of efficiency, handling, performance and packaging. You need to look at the whole package, not just one thing and be dismissive. You do realize model 3 and Ioniq 6 are a much smaller car?

Go look at Lucid tech videos , you will learn a lot about Lucid’s technological advantage.
 
Though EPA test's average speed, upon which the efficiency and range figures are calculated, is in the 40mph range.
understood. That's why there is a deviation at highway speed.

It begs the question how EV manufacturers should posture the realizable range and range anxiety. For example, the AGT is advertised as having a 516 mile range. To realize this range, driving from Phoenix to LA would have taken me over 10 hours, without air conditioning :-).
 
I reread this a couple of times, and I'm still not sure I get your meaning.

The Rubicon was the river that Julius Caesar crossed when he attacked Rome. He was committed once he crossed it with his army, since that action itself was treasonous. So once he did that there was no turning back: he had started an insurrection.

So usually when I read the phrase "crossing the Rubicon", I infer it means there is "no turning back" or something similar.
In your case, perhaps you meant something like "blazed a trail"? And "stock" in this case means "unmodified"?

All that said, the Rivian refresh looks awesome and is a worthy competitor to the Gravity. Every Rivian owner I've run into is enthusiastic about their car. I hope I can convince my wife to replace her Range Rover with an R1S or a Gravity.

No I meant the Rubicon trail. It's a famous off roading trail. https://www.rubicontrailfoundation.org/. If you are familiar with the Jeep Rubicon, that's what it's named after and the Rubicon trail is considered a benchmark for off-road capable vehicles. The R1S completed the trail in a stock configuration the only thing they added was a winch and rock sliders.
 
understood. That's why there is a deviation at highway speed.

It begs the question how EV manufacturers should posture the realizable range and range anxiety. For example, the AGT is advertised as having a 516 mile range. To realize this range, driving from Phoenix to LA would have taken me over 10 hours, without air conditioning :).
Also, when folks talk about "range anxiety", they are not talking about driving around the city at 40mph or less. They are talking about "a few hundred miles" at highway speed. I think the EV manufacturers should be more forthcoming in their specs and disclosure. Don't turn it into a marketing shell-game.
 
I didn't read through all the comments on this thread, but I don't care for comments like the ones made in this article. There is no need to denigrate the competition and claim something that isn't true. The Rivian R1S crossed the Rubicon trail stock. Rivian has an upcoming variant that goes 0-60 in 2.6 seconds. VW has recently signed an agreement to pay Rivian 5 BILLION dollars to use their software because of how good it is. Considering all the complaints about Lucid software I've seen on this forum, it's another reason why comments like saying all EV SUVs aren't very good won't be received well.

Lucid isn't even as far along as Rivian on the path to profitability or in terms of manufacturing volume. Understandably, you are excited about your upcoming release. It's even acceptable to talk about how your vehicle is unique in the marketplace, but it's not appropriate to do that at the expense of everyone else. It's poor business practice and rooted in a CEO's insecurity. Part of what has turned me off about Tesla is Elon's behavior and antagonistic comments, like the ones Peter just made here, which are on that same spectrum. One of the best things I like about Rivian has been the behavior of R.J. Scaringe, Rivian's CEO. Peter needs to concentrate on his release, fix the issues with his own vehicles, and ensure that Lucid is doing what it can to fulfill their promises to their owners instead of talking about how much better his products are than the competition. Especially when his product doesn't even exist yet, has no independent reviews of a production version, and the competition has been in the market for years.
Nothing wrong in telling the truth ……dumb range is dumb range, you need to get the word out about your advantage or no one will know.
 
Also, when folks talk about "range anxiety", they are not talking about driving around the city at 40mph or less. They are talking about "a few hundred miles" at highway speed. I think the EV manufacturers should be more forthcoming in their specs and disclosure. Don't turn it into a marketing shell-game.
Blame the EPA for that, they need to update their cycles.
 
No I meant the Rubicon trail. It's a famous off roading trail. https://www.rubicontrailfoundation.org/. If you are familiar with the Jeep Rubicon, that's what it's named after and the Rubicon trail is considered a benchmark for off-road capable vehicles. The R1S completed the trail in a stock configuration the only thing they added was a winch and rock sliders.
OK, now that makes sense. Today I learned something new, thanks!
 
Hmp10 and Batteryman, you both make valid points but not everyone shares your viewpoint. The "whole package" is only as good as its weakest link. For many people, something as simple as the key fob or cell phone key not working 100% of the time is enough to dissuade them from purchasing the vehicle again - despite the efficiency, power and performance. Software is undeniably the weakest link. Personally, I find it fine, since I am less inclined to use things like Car Play, HA, and other modern innovations (immediate previous car was 15 years old). However, I think I am in the minority. Yes, software can be improved as opposed to hardware, but are you actively doing it? Still waiting for the ability to close the garage door while in reverse without stopping the rear view camera. Again, not the end of the world for me, but persistently annoying because of the perceived lack of concern by Lucid, that caused many members to find a work around. We should have faith that the company will fix issues instead of self resolving problems because it takes too long to wait - at least for a "premier" EV company.
 
R.J. gets pushed into antagonistic comments by the media all the time, too; he just doesn't take the bait. When the Cybertruck was released, many media personalities tried to get him to say the R1 was superior, but instead, he said something about there being room in the market for everyone and how new entries in the marketplace help everyone to be better. This is a classy response, unlike what was done in Peter's example. Like it or not, Peter's comment is exactly what Elon would make when talking about his competition.

Also, I don't think Lucid has a leg up over Rivian when it comes to innovation in packaging and software-controlled vehicles. They use different tech, for sure, but to discount a vehicle that can drive to the trail in sport mode, then lift to 15" of ground clearance and cross the Rubicon trail in its stock configuration is outrageous. If the Gravity turns out to be what is claimed there will be some advantages over Rivian's R1S, but also drawbacks when compared. Gravity might have better handling and efficiency but both of these things come at the cost of off-road capability. Sure most people, myself included, don't use that capability but to deny those abilities aren't every bit as innovative is to deny reality itself.

It sounds like we both agree for the most part here, where we differ is I cannot excuse these sorts of comments. As an executive myself I disagree with the strategy, and although I'm not the sort of player that Peter or R.J. or Elon are, I still wouldn't speak on the record about my competition that way. It's a bad strategy and as you said, it reveals your own insecurity about your market position. I am possibly interested in the gravity but if Lucid is going to continue down this path my interest will wane and I will cross Gravity off my list. Sure it's only one sale, but when you reach the pot shots at everyone else stage the slope becomes quite slippery and before you know it you're smoking weed on Joe Rogan and buying failing social media platforms.
Luci and Rivian are targeting different segments. How many people take a SUV off road like that? They have superior packaging and efficiency.Agree, Rivian has better software but their motor tech is behind Lucid. Gravity is not meant for off-roading!

Nothing wrong in citing your advantage. If you can’t be aggressive, you will disappear. So you are upset Peter called out other companies for putting in a super large battery for range? Larger battery means more environmental pollution, inefficiency, increased grid demand, larger brakes, more tire wear, more road damage- I can go on and on. I’m glad Peter is bringing this up instead of staying silent about such dumb engineering!
 
Blame the EPA for that, they need to update their cycles.
I agree the EPA spec is outdated. It is based on 55mph (OK, 60 mph) highway of Jimmy Carter's days.

BUT....don't the EV manufacturers have a role for better disclosure? For example, Rivian meets (slightly better than) EPA on highway driving. And the German cars are better than their EPA ratings.
 
I agree the EPA spec is outdated. It is based on 55mph (OK, 60 mph) highway of Jimmy Carter's days.

BUT....don't the EV manufacturers have a role for better disclosure? For example, Rivian meets (slightly better than) EPA on highway driving. And the German cars are better than their EPA ratings.
Why? Does any manufacturer of any product cite weaknesses when they don’t have to? That’s not how you run a business.
 
Why? Does any manufacturer of any product cite weaknesses when they don’t have to? That’s not how you run a business.
It is not a weakness question. Don't treat your customers as morons.

If Lucid and Tesla disclose their 70mph highway speed range (in addition to EPA), they are still the leader, though not by as much.
In part, that's why I trust my Rivian more than I trust my Lucid. Aside from the superior SW, to a first order, Rivian delivers what they spec'ed.
 
R.J. gets pushed into antagonistic comments by the media all the time, too; he just doesn't take the bait. When the Cybertruck was released, many media personalities tried to get him to say the R1 was superior, but instead, he said something about there being room in the market for everyone and how new entries in the marketplace help everyone to be better. This is a classy response, unlike what was done in Peter's example. Like it or not, Peter's comment is exactly what Elon would make when talking about his competition.

Also, I don't think Lucid has a leg up over Rivian when it comes to innovation in packaging and software-controlled vehicles. They use different tech, for sure, but to discount a vehicle that can drive to the trail in sport mode, then lift to 15" of ground clearance and cross the Rubicon trail in its stock configuration is outrageous. If the Gravity turns out to be what is claimed there will be some advantages over Rivian's R1S, but also drawbacks when compared. Gravity might have better handling and efficiency but both of these things come at the cost of off-road capability. Sure most people, myself included, don't use that capability but to deny those abilities aren't every bit as innovative is to deny reality itself.

It sounds like we both agree for the most part here, where we differ is I cannot excuse these sorts of comments. As an executive myself I disagree with the strategy, and although I'm not the sort of player that Peter or R.J. or Elon are, I still wouldn't speak on the record about my competition that way. It's a bad strategy and as you said, it reveals your own insecurity about your market position. I am possibly interested in the gravity but if Lucid is going to continue down this path my interest will wane and I will cross Gravity off my list. Sure it's only one sale, but when you reach the pot shots at everyone else stage the slope becomes quite slippery and before you know it you're smoking weed on Joe Rogan and buying failing social media platforms.
Did you listen to the podcast itself or just read the snippet taken from the podcast published on the website?
 
Yes, software can be improved as opposed to hardware, but are you actively doing it? Still waiting for the ability to close the garage door while in reverse without stopping the rear view camera. Again, not the end of the world for me, but persistently annoying because of the perceived lack of concern by Lucid, that caused many members to find a work around. We should have faith that the company will fix issues instead of self resolving problems because it takes too long to wait - at least for a "premier" EV company.

I think too many people just buy into the notion that other manufacturers deliver their cars with full-featured and fully-functional software from the outset. That is simply not true.

For instance, look at the post @RockSports just put up about his Rivian:

"I've had my R1T for almost 2 years now and I know what you mean about it being a different vehicle since buying it. Nav, Music, Handling and performance, off road and now the whole operating system was updated last night with the gen 2 graphics and the promised side view mirror cameras when changing lanes."

Rivian gets a lot of accolades for its software, but that was far from the case when the first Rivians hit the market. (I had been holding an R1S Launch Edition reservation for over four years, so I was paying close attention to the early reviews of the R1T.) RockSports said he had just received side view mirror camera displays, something our Airs have had for many moons now.

And we've driven Model S's for nine years and are still receiving bug fixes and new software features on our Plaid, some of which our Lucid had from the outset and some which the Tesla will apparently never have: birds-eye-view display, ability to read USB music sticks, CarPlay, etc.

I'm well aware of the key fob woes with the Air, as I lived with that early on. However, the issue now seems resolved with our car, but our Tesla still has problems. Often its key fob will neither open the door nor start the car. We have to keep our key cards on us to do both, meaning we have to rub the card over the phone charging pad for the car to start.

A friend (and most owners of German EV's) has to take his VW ID.4 to the dealer for any updates. Scheduling is a tricky wicket, and the car usually ends up staying several days.

Honestly, I feel a lot of negative comparisons of Lucid's current software to other brands arise from two things: (1) the truly execrable and prolonged mess with Lucid software upon the Air's introduction and (2) lack of personal experience with other brands' software shortcomings.
 
OK, now that makes sense. Today I learned something new, thanks!
Haha. I was thinking the exact same thing as you. “Crossing the Rubicon” has a very specific meaning to an old English teacher like myself.
 
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