Lucid CEO critiques other EV-SUVs

[hydbob]

Great! But Joe, you are ONLY 6ft 2". Rawlinson was talking about six guys, all over 6ft 4in fitting into the Gravity. You and I don't qualify!

Lucid im sure will release a video or pics of it. I know for certain they took 7 6'+ individuals to test the space during a HQ tour.

 

[hydbob]

Here is a composite pic I made up to (roughly) the same scale to visualize the R1S and Gravity comparison. Note the height and profile differences.

Why are you equating interior space with exterior profile? I've been in both vehicles and can definitely say the Gravity blows the R1S out of the water for interior space, it's not even close.

 

[BS8899]

Why are you equating interior space with exterior profile? I've been in both vehicles and can definitely say the Gravity blows the R1S out of the water for interior space, it's not even close.

Let's calibrate:

• most of us on this forum are Lucid Air owners. We all appreciate Lucid's innovations in reducing the size of the power train thus freeing up space for the cabin.
• that said, it is simple geometry, even with innovation in miniaturizing the power train, the cabin size affects the interior space. You can't get something from nothing.
• EV SUVs have different space utilization than ICE SUVs.
• At present, there are two TRUE-3-row EV SUV shipping in volume vis-a-vis, the Rivian R1S and the Hyundai SUVs. I am not counting the Tesla Model X and Y 3-rows. Therefore, we are using these shipping products to assess Gravity's offering.

The recent forum discussions:

• centers around Rawlinson's assertion he can fit a bunch of 6Ft-plus passengers into the cabin.
• most of us have not sat in the Gravity cabin. You and perhaps another couple of folks have. So, enlighten us.

Let's calibrate on the relevant parameters:

• no one is questioning whether the front row of the Gravity can seat passengers comfortably, even if they are 6ft 6in.
• No one is questioning if the second row can seat 6ft 4in passengers.
• As in every 3-row SUV (with 4 doors), the unknown is whether the 3rd-row passengers (say 6ft 4in, according to Rawlinson), can be accommodated comfortably AND can ENTER and EXIT the vehicle with ease.
• Rawlinson's assertion is Gravity can fit six to seven passengers, all 6ft 4in and taller. He didn't say "comfortably". Can it?! Will it be comfortable in seating? Entry and Exit of the 3rd row?
• @borski says he has sat inside the Gravity and there is a "stupid amount of room".

Please enlighten us.

Remember, most of us on this forum are Lucid Air owners and we understand and appreciate the cabin room in the Air. Many of us are also LCID stockholders and want to see Lucid succeed.

 

[Neurio]

Maybe this will help?

Lucid Motors on LinkedIn: #lucidgravity | 67 comments

Seven (really) tall adults plus seven suitcases. The interior space of the #LucidGravity must be seen to be believed! Who would you bring with you in the Lucid… | 67 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

 

[BS8899]

Maybe this will help?

Lucid Motors on LinkedIn: #lucidgravity | 67 comments

Seven (really) tall adults plus seven suitcases. The interior space of the #LucidGravity must be seen to be believed! Who would you bring with you in the Lucid… | 67 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

Great video!

Good to see the Gravity can carry 7 passengers (presumably in 3 rows) and their luggage. That puts it in the same category with the Model X/Y, R1S, and Hyundai.

While some of the passengers are big beefy guys, not all of them are 6ft 4in plus as Rawlinson's recent assertion. Nevertheless, it says the Gravity is reasonably roomy.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, my personal focus in looking at 7 passenger SUV is on the comfort of the 3rd row. In particular, the headroom, legroom, and the ease in entry and exit. To me, these are my critical parameters for 3 row SUV.

Beyond these static parameters, one must also look at the comfort of the ride for long distance. For example, while you can carry 7 passengers in a Model X or Model Y, and the Model X with its gull-wing doors actually makes 3rdrow entry/exit easier, can you carry enough luggage and can you transport these passengers for a 2 hr trip in reasonable comfort?

If Gravity can deliver these parameters, it can be a winner.

 

[joec]

Great video!

Good to see the Gravity can carry 7 passengers (presumably in 3 rows) and their luggage. That puts it in the same category with the Model X/Y, R1S, and Hyundai.

While some of the passengers are big beefy guys, not all of them are 6ft 4in plus as Rawlinson's recent assertion. Nevertheless, it says the Gravity is reasonably roomy.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, my personal focus in looking at 7 passenger SUV is on the comfort of the 3rd row. In particular, the headroom, legroom, and the ease in entry and exit. To me, these are my critical parameters for 3 row SUV.

Beyond these static parameters, one must also look at the comfort of the ride for long distance. For example, while you can carry 7 passengers in a Model X or Model Y, and the Model X with its gull-wing doors actually makes 3rdrow entry/exit easier, can you carry enough luggage and can you transport these passengers for a 2 hr trip in reasonable comfort?

If Gravity can deliver these parameters, it can be a winner.

You can see from the video the shortest woman was actually in the second row. As was the shortest man.

Zak is by far the tallest. He was in the driver's seat.

The two people in the third row are the people who end up on the far right at the end of the video.

Going by relative sizes and how tall I know Zak is compared to me, I'd say the two folks in the third row are slightly above average height for their respective genders.

Also telling that no one in the video is particularly overweight. My guess is that would make more difference than height in the third row, unless you are over six feet tall, which is rare.

 

[BS8899]

You can see from the video the shortest woman was actually in the second row. As was the shortest man.

Zak is by far the tallest. He was in the driver's seat.

The two people in the third row are the people who end up on the far right at the end of the video.

Going by relative sizes and how tall I know Zak is compared to me, I'd say the two folks in the third row are slightly above average height for their respective genders.

Also telling that no one in the video is particularly overweight. My guess is that would make more difference than height in the third row, unless you are over six feet tall, which is rare.

Yeah, good point on weight. I can take a hint! I will go on a diet!

Seriously, unless you have a large family, it is probably infrequent you will use all 7 seats on long drives. But, on the occasions you need it, you don't want it to be a torture chamber in the 3rd row.

 

[Pragmatic]

If your travelling regularly with 7 people you should be purchasing a van (mini or other).

Speaking of vans saw the ID Buzz charging at EA station back in March. That thing is huge. Too bad they aren't bringing the swb version to NA. The lwb is too big for most people. I'm probably wrong about that since most people like to buy XL vehicles.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Right on!

The Gravity is an "Urban wannabe SUV" to go to Costco and soccer practices. As I noted in a prior post, it is 12" shorter (in height) than the R1S. This shorter height can cut seriously into Gravity's headroom, legroom, and storage.

The R1S is rugged and has adequate ground clearance to do some off-roading. Its under-carriage is heavy-duty. I recently installed running boards on my R1S and spend several hours under the R1S attaching the running boards. I know how rugged it is.

It depends upon how one wants to use the vehicle. The other day I was parked next to a young woman driving a Rivian. I asked her how she liked it expecting the usual gush. But instead, she told me she hated it, wouldn't buy it again, and the ride was way too harsh. I asked her if she off roaded and she said no.

A great example of someone buying the wrong vehicle for her expected purpose.

I think Gravity is trying to be all things to all people. Whether it can manage that achievement time will tell.

 

[BS8899]

If your travelling regularly with 7 people you should be purchasing a van (mini or other).

Speaking of vans saw the ID Buzz charging at EA station back in March. That thing is huge. Too bad they aren't bringing the swb version to NA. The lwb is too big for most people. I'm probably wrong about that since most people like to buy XL vehicles.

yes, if I need to transport 7 passengers on a regular basis, a van like the ID BUZZ is ideal. I used to own a VW Eurovan. I understand its utility. Nowadays, I only need it on special occasions.

The only "bad" thing about such a van is, it is a bit unwieldy to drive around town all day long when you are by yourself. Nevertheless, I'd love to have an ID BUZZ. Compared to an SUV, it is much easier to get in and out of it and everyone seats comfortably.

The biggest issues I found with 3 row SUV is the 3rd row comfort and the ease (or not) of accessing the 3rd row.

 

[Steveinarizona]

This is not the first time you’ve made this point, when we have no way of knowing whether it’ll prove true. None of us has sat in Gravity yet.

The Air is several inches shorter than most sedans, yet I’m 6’2” and have no issues with head room.

Don’t underestimate Lucid when it comes to packaging.

I agree. I have a 6'11" buddy. He bought a truck to replace the BMW X4 he used to drive. His wife's main car was a Lexus NX that she loved. But he couldn't fit in the NX so they sold the NX and she is now driving an X3 (replaced the X4).. On the other hand, he sat in my little GV60 and he fit very well. Modern EVs, that are designed as EVs, have a ton of internal space compared to their ICE forebears.

 

[flarbear]

The height for the R1S is max height which includes the ground clearance which can go up to an amazing 15 inches. We'd need "height @ clearance" for both cars to gauge passenger cabin height (and that still includes space taken for frame and battery which could vary betwen them).

 

[Batteryman]

All fair points. From the beginning (Air days), Lucid's main value proposition is the miniaturization of their power train, resulting in more cabin space, higher efficiency, and power. I am not trying to diss the Gravity per se. Rather, I was reacting to some of Rawlinson's comments regarding Gravity's capacity. As for efficiency, if you go by the manufacturer's claims, the Lucid Air is 2.3X more efficient than the R1S. For my driving, typically 75mph on I-10/I-5, the Lucid Air is about 72% of its efficiency claim while the R1S is about 120% of its claim. The Air is still more efficient, but nowhere close to 2.3X!

As a starting point, as SUV goes, the R1S is already a SMALL SUV. As you pointed out, Gravity is smaller than the R1S. I was amused that Lucid claims they can fit so many 6ft plus people in the Gravity. Perhaps they could. They never said "comfortably" or "on long trips". We will find out in the next 6 months how realistic that really is.

I've been putting a lot of thought into this challenge as I have volunteered to transport 6 or 7 people from the Bay Area to Dana Point for a wedding this October. We want to take the scenic route (HWY 1). I decided to make it a 2-day trip, with no longer than 2hr non-stop legs, and an overnight stopover in Paso Robles. Since I have the driver's seat, I will be fine.

You shouldn’t look at what is “ claimed “

Look at reality-Lucid easily gets 3.5 miles per kWh, above 4 if you drive at speed limits without hard acceleration or braking. Not a single other manufacturers has come close. Gravity will be a world beater in efficiency as well.

 

[DeaneG]

You shouldn’t look at what is “ claimed “

Look at reality-Lucid easily gets 3.5 miles per kWh, above 4 if you drive at speed limits without hard acceleration or braking. Not a single other manufacturers has come close. Gravity will be a world beater in efficiency as well.

Tesla model 3 real world efficiency isn't that different. Ioniq 6 efficiency can be slightly better. Lucid's drivetrain efficiency is world class, but not a miracle.

 

[BS8899]

You shouldn’t look at what is “ claimed “

Look at reality-Lucid easily gets 3.5 miles per kWh, above 4 if you drive at speed limits without hard acceleration or braking. Not a single other manufacturers has come close. Gravity will be a world beater in efficiency as well.

If you take time to read the controlled experiments done by several reputable reviewers and also from owners on this Forum, you will find that most owners experience about 70-80% of the efficiency/mileage claimed by Lucid.


As I summarized before, most of the reputable reviewers doing CONTROLLED TESTING (e.g., 70mph, exactly the same routes and environmental conditions) rates Lucid and Tesla having the largest (negative) discrepancies between what the manufacturer claims (EPA rating) and what is realized in actual driving conditions. In contrast, the German cars (BMW/MB) often exceed their EPA ratings (sometimes significantly) under the same test conditions. Rivian mostly met or slightly better than their published efficiency.

There are plenty of discussions in this forum about the topic. So, please take time to read them before we go down the rabbit hole once again!

 

[xponents]

Tesla model 3 real world efficiency isn't that different. Ioniq 6 efficiency can be slightly better. Lucid's drivetrain efficiency is world class, but not a miracle.

Don’t forget that those are smaller, lighter midsize cars in comparison to the Lucid. The Lucid midsize is being rumored to have a 6 mi/kwh rating, meaning that even it’s real world efficiency should crush the Ioniq 6 and the Model 3.

 

[BS8899]

Tesla model 3 real world efficiency isn't that different. Ioniq 6 efficiency can be slightly better. Lucid's drivetrain efficiency is world class, but not a miracle.

You are correct.

I am getting almost exactly the same "lifetime efficiency" as you @DeaneG). I do a fair a mount of long distance freeway driving and I monitor my speed and efficiency on every drive. Lucid's efficiency on highway driving of say 75mph is "good" but no where close to its claims (EPA?) of 4.6 miles/kWh. The discrepancies between EPA and 75mph highway driving is to be expected. The German cars, as a group have much lower discrepancy than Lucid and Tesla.

 

[hmp10]

If you take time to read the controlled experiments done by several reputable reviewers and also from owners on this Forum, you will find that most owners experience about 70-80% of the efficiency/mileage claimed by Lucid.


As I summarized before, most of the reputable reviewers doing CONTROLLED TESTING (e.g., 70mph, exactly the same routes and environmental conditions) rates Lucid and Tesla having the largest (negative) discrepancies between what the manufacturer claims (EPA rating) and what is realized in actual driving conditions. In contrast, the German cars (BMW/MB) often exceed their EPA ratings (sometimes significantly) under the same test conditions. Rivian mostly met or slightly better than their published efficiency.

There are plenty of discussions in this forum about the topic. So, please take time to read them before we go down the rabbit hole once again!

I've been driving EVs for nine years and quit focusing on EPA ratings a long time ago. For me, one simple fact is all that is relevant:

Driving on the same highway (back and forth across Alligator Alley in South Florida) the same way in the same conditions at the same speed, our Air Dream Performance on 21" wheels gets almost exactly one hundred more miles of range than our Tesla Model S Plaid on 21" wheels.

We can cross the state from Naples to Miami, do some local driving around, and get back home on a single charge in the Lucid. We can't do that in the Tesla.

No other EV currently on the market exceeds or even closely approaches the range of the large-battery-pack Lucid.

 

[joec]

I've been driving EVs for nine years and quit focusing on EPA ratings a long time ago. For me, one simple fact is all that is relevant:

Driving on the same highway (back and forth across Alligator Alley in South Florida) the same way in the same conditions at the same speed, our Air Dream Performance on 21" wheels gets almost exactly one hundred more miles of range than our Tesla Model S Plaid on 21" wheels.

We can cross the state from Naples to Miami, do some local driving around, and get back home on a single charge in the Lucid. We can't do that in the Tesla.

No other EV currently on the market exceeds or even closely approaches the range of the large-battery-pack Lucid.

And that large battery pack in the Lucid is smaller than the long range Rivian, Cybertruck, Hummer, etc.

 

[Gravitas]

I've been driving EVs for nine years and quit focusing on EPA ratings a long time ago. For me, one simple fact is all that is relevant:

Driving on the same highway (back and forth across Alligator Alley in South Florida) the same way in the same conditions at the same speed, our Air Dream Performance on 21" wheels gets almost exactly one hundred more miles of range than our Tesla Model S Plaid on 21" wheels.

We can cross the state from Naples to Miami, do some local driving around, and get back home on a single charge in the Lucid. We can't do that in the Tesla.

No other EV currently on the market exceeds or even closely approaches the range of the large-battery-pack Lucid.