How Much Range Are You Actually Getting?

[Volund]

Your counterpoint was referring to me as if I made "3 hours" out of the blue for no reason. Try a trip from Chicago to DC around Xmas break when kids are off then tell me how much longer it takes. It's going to be at least 3 more hours. To each of our own, you do you.

As someone here who did the DC to Chicago... And kept going to Utah, I've done that exact trip.
But I don't quite understand the point you're making, you're saying the charging adds on an additional 3 hours to the length of the road trip to reach the destination?

 

[Volund]

Wow you wont give up. My 19” tires are at correct pressure. You are assuming that I am a rube. I happen to be a pro race car driver and extremely familiar with EVs ano battery tech in particular. My firm (me) designs and installs residential and commercial solar plus battery systems and I have lots of frost hand knowledge of different battery chemistries and their behavior under load, at varying temperatures, etc. I was drivin reasonably slowly on local roads with short highway/parkway stints. As I said, this is the same commute I did with my Model 3 so it is more a comparison of the derate of Lucid tech against tesla tech. I will not buy another Tesla because Elon has gone off the rails, IMHO, but that said, it was a pretty good car and I was hoping that the Air would be better. In this regard, it is not.

It's just too difficult and a slippery slope to compare a single anecdote as a generalized statement as a whole.

Many people here including myself have been Tesla owners, so we understand where you're coming from, that being said, your argument is in the minority of testing as I myself get much better epa in the Lucid than my Model 3

 

[Knucklehead]

I am not a Verified Owner, well, because I don't own a Lucid yet. The primary reason I am interested in a Lucid is the range. As a prospective buyer, it is disappointing Lucid follows Tesla and uses the 5-cycle EPA test, which is known to be less realistic compared with normal driving.

My biggest concern in highway range. I don't care about around town range, because I can charge at home. So this thread is one I have been following closely.

My takeaway is this: Lucid makes a great car. But it isn't as great as the marketing suggests. And that is primarily because of the way they do their EPA testing. I wish they would provide a more realistic range estimate, rather than mislead people like Tesla does.

I totally understand range reduction due to cold temps, and speed. I set my cruise for 80 on the highway, and I don't want to change that behavior. And I want the longest highway range vehicle I can get. And I want to be able to mount my bike on the back. And I want room to put various stuff. Is that a Gravity?

Long highway range requires a big battery. Period. No matter how aerodynamic you make a vehicle, at 80 mph there is a lot of air resistance. Unless the vehicle looks like a bullet. I don't want a bullet. Who wants to drive a bullet? Very few.

I guess what I am saying is this: I think Lucid should be honest about their range, and not use the 5-cycle test. I think they should put a bigger battery in every model, and really crush the competition when it comes to range. Right now they are in the lead, but it is almost a fantom lead. A 440 mile range Gravity, I mean a real, honest, highway range, will require more than a 120 kWh battery. Do it, please!

 

[DeaneG]

Lucid's lead is not at all "phantom". The Air will go 100-150 fast freeway miles further than any Tesla on a single charge.

 

[Knucklehead]

Lucid's lead is not at all "phantom". The Air will go 100-150 fast freeway miles further than any Tesla on a single charge.

I don't want to argue with you, or any other owners. I think Lucid has produced an amazing machine.

That said, what is your mi/kWh at 80 mph? It is important, because a lot of people drive that speed on the highway.

Also, the wheels on your Air are important. the 19" are much more efficient. So if you have a different wheel, that will reduce range.

 

[Bobby]

Wow you wont give up. My 19” tires are at correct pressure. You are assuming that I am a rube. I happen to be a pro race car driver and extremely familiar with EVs ano battery tech in particular. My firm (me) designs and installs residential and commercial solar plus battery systems and I have lots of frost hand knowledge of different battery chemistries and their behavior under load, at varying temperatures, etc. I was drivin reasonably slowly on local roads with short highway/parkway stints. As I said, this is the same commute I did with my Model 3 so it is more a comparison of the derate of Lucid tech against tesla tech. I will not buy another Tesla because Elon has gone off the rails, IMHO, but that said, it was a pretty good car and I was hoping that the Air would be better. In this regard, it is not.

I am not a Verified Owner, well, because I don't own a Lucid yet. The primary reason I am interested in a Lucid is the range. As a prospective buyer, it is disappointing Lucid follows Tesla and uses the 5-cycle EPA test, which is known to be less realistic compared with normal driving.

My biggest concern in highway range. I don't care about around town range, because I can charge at home. So this thread is one I have been following closely.

My takeaway is this: Lucid makes a great car. But it isn't as great as the marketing suggests. And that is primarily because of the way they do their EPA testing. I wish they would provide a more realistic range estimate, rather than mislead people like Tesla does.

I totally understand range reduction due to cold temps, and speed. I set my cruise for 80 on the highway, and I don't want to change that behavior. And I want the longest highway range vehicle I can get. And I want to be able to mount my bike on the back. And I want room to put various stuff. Is that a Gravity?

Long highway range requires a big battery. Period. No matter how aerodynamic you make a vehicle, at 80 mph there is a lot of air resistance. Unless the vehicle looks like a bullet. I don't want a bullet. Who wants to drive a bullet? Very few.

I guess what I am saying is this: I think Lucid should be honest about their range, and not use the 5-cycle test. I think they should put a bigger battery in every model, and really crush the competition when it comes to range. Right now they are in the lead, but it is almost a fantom lead. A 440 mile range Gravity, I mean a real, honest, highway range, will require more than a 120 kWh battery. Do it, please!

The five cycle range is a legal option for them. Why not use the one that gives them the highest number? While that number is achievable, it certainly is not representative of day-to-day driving of most people. Tesla is their main competitor in the eyes of many, so it does give an apples to apples comparison for perspective buyers.

 

[borski]

Love the car, but no more EV's, period for me. I have done the Charlotte to Chapel Hill trip quite a bit and the last trip was the first where I had to charge on the way back for a 300 mile round trip. I probably could have made it back to Charlotte, but it would have been close. It would have been 1/2 tank of gas for my wife's MB GLS450. It was a bit colder (high 40's/50's) and a little rain on the way up.

Again, the Air ranks in the top two cars I have ever owned. For around town, it is my favorite. For trips, well, we don't take it much further than the Chapel Hill round-trip due to a host of reasons, mostly the uncertain charging infrastructure and the requirement for extensive planning and semi-rigid scheduling. I have an upcoming trip scheduled from Charlotte to Nashville to Atlanta and back to Charlotte, not taking the Lucid.

I 100% agree with you on this. I don't understand why people take EVs for long road trips. I've done many from Chicago to DC and it's just unnecessary hassles. The trip took about 3 hours longer due to charging, especially in winter, and that's with the superchargers. After experiencing it 3 times, went to gas for road trips. Locally or short distance trips, EVs are amazing.

As @HariK can attest, after having driven from Montreal to California just this past week, with pretty flawless charging experiences, the charging infrastructure is improving quickly. It's definitely not where it needs to be yet, but it is not stagnant.

 

[DBV]

Lucid's lead is not at all "phantom". The Air will go 100-150 fast freeway miles further than any Tesla on a single charge.

The Air GT yes (150 is a stretch), but the other Air’s are on par with the refresh Model S with 19’s and the Model S probably wins in the winter since it has the heat pump.

 

[borski]

I set my cruise for 80 on the highway, and I don't want to change that behavior. And I want the longest highway range vehicle I can get. And I want to be able to mount my bike on the back. And I want room to put various stuff. Is that a Gravity?

Yes.

 

[stratus]

I am not a Verified Owner, well, because I don't own a Lucid yet. The primary reason I am interested in a Lucid is the range. As a prospective buyer, it is disappointing Lucid follows Tesla and uses the 5-cycle EPA test, which is known to be less realistic compared with normal driving.

My biggest concern in highway range. I don't care about around town range, because I can charge at home. So this thread is one I have been following closely.

My takeaway is this: Lucid makes a great car. But it isn't as great as the marketing suggests. And that is primarily because of the way they do their EPA testing. I wish they would provide a more realistic range estimate, rather than mislead people like Tesla does.

I totally understand range reduction due to cold temps, and speed. I set my cruise for 80 on the highway, and I don't want to change that behavior. And I want the longest highway range vehicle I can get. And I want to be able to mount my bike on the back. And I want room to put various stuff. Is that a Gravity?

Long highway range requires a big battery. Period. No matter how aerodynamic you make a vehicle, at 80 mph there is a lot of air resistance. Unless the vehicle looks like a bullet. I don't want a bullet. Who wants to drive a bullet? Very few.

I guess what I am saying is this: I think Lucid should be honest about their range, and not use the 5-cycle test. I think they should put a bigger battery in every model, and really crush the competition when it comes to range. Right now they are in the lead, but it is almost a fantom lead. A 440 mile range Gravity, I mean a real, honest, highway range, will require more than a 120 kWh battery. Do it, please!

I have gotten a full 500 miles of range on one charge in my GT at moderate speeds.
I have also gone over 300 miles at 80 mph, which is 4 hours of continuous driving. I don’t think this is insufficient for road trips. Yes. , it takes a bit more planning but the slight sacrifice is worth it, IMHO.

 

[Volund]

I've done 340 myself 80mph driving when I was heading towards Vegas and it was about 4.5 hrs of driving

 

[DeaneG]

I don't want to argue with you, or any other owners. I think Lucid has produced an amazing machine.

That said, what is your mi/kWh at 80 mph? It is important, because a lot of people drive that speed on the highway.

Also, the wheels on your Air are important. the 19" are much more efficient. So if you have a different wheel, that will reduce range.

My 'stealth' performance Model 3 (18" wheels with aero covers) was rated at 310 miles EPA and would do about 240 miles at an average of about 75mph. My Air GT (19" wheels without aero covers), rated at 520 miles EPA and does about 380-400 miles at the same speed. My GT's lifetime efficiency is 3.5 mi/kWh. 90% of this is at an average speed of about 75mph, the rest at lower speeds.

 

[Knucklehead]

My 'stealth' performance Model 3 (18" wheels with aero covers) was rated at 310 miles EPA and would do about 240 miles at an average of about 75mph. My Air GT (19" wheels without aero covers), rated at 520 miles EPA and does about 380-400 miles at the same speed. My GT's lifetime efficiency is 3.5 mi/kWh. 90% of this is at an average speed of about 75mph, the rest at lower speeds.

Real world results is why I am following this thread.

I've done 340 myself 80mph driving when I was heading towards Vegas and it was about 4.5 hrs of driving

340/112 = 3 mi/kWh. Does that correlate with the efficiency you see when driving that fast?
Do you have the 19 inch wheels?
BTW - there is no way the Gravity will get 3 mi/kWh at 80 mph if the Air gets that, right?

 

[stratus]

Real world results is why I am following this thread.



340/112 = 3 mi/kWh. Does that correlate with the efficiency you see when driving that fast?
Do you have the 19 inch wheels?
BTW - there is no way the Gravity will get 3 mi/kWh at 80 mph if the Air gets that, right?

If Lucid has a Gravity trim with a projected 440 miles plus range, I think getting somewhere near 300 miles at highway speeds is not totally out of the question. I know this doesn’t sit well with everyone, but reducing speed to 75 makes a large difference in efficiency. The pure fun and relaxing nature of driving the Lucid, makes up for the time spent with charging stops.
I guess if you are driving 600 miles a day, several times a week, it could get frustrating, but if your long trips are just every so often, it’s really worth it. Just my 2 cents .

 

[Knucklehead]

The five cycle range is a legal option for them. Why not use the one that gives them the highest number? While that number is achievable, it certainly is not representative of day-to-day driving of most people. Tesla is their main competitor in the eyes of many, so it does give an apples to apples comparison for perspective buyers.

Because it is even more misleading. I don't know the other EPA test options, but many of the other non-Tesla competitors don't use the 5-cycle test, because they know a good percentage of their buyers will be upset when they find out the real world range. I know, it has worked for Tesla. Personally I prefer a range estimate that is closer to reality.

 

[joec]

Because it is even more misleading. I don't know the other EPA test options, but many of the other non-Tesla competitors don't use the 5-cycle test, because they know a good percentage of their buyers will be upset when they find out the real world range. I know, it has worked for Tesla. Personally I prefer a range estimate that is closer to reality.

The other automakers don't use the 5-cycle test because it's more expensive. And they don't really care about their EV business. Which is why so many of them are reducing investment in EVs at exactly the time where adoption is poised to take off. Massive shortsightedness.

That their range estimates are better for setting expectations is a side effect. And a major killer of their sales this past year.

 

[hellolucid]

Because it is even more misleading. I don't know the other EPA test options, but many of the other non-Tesla competitors don't use the 5-cycle test, because they know a good percentage of their buyers will be upset when they find out the real world range. I know, it has worked for Tesla. Personally I prefer a range estimate that is closer to reality.

a small anecdote from last week - i was at the Anderson, CA EA charging station last weekend after Thanksgiving and waited 1hr to get a spot. i talked to few other EV owners who were all waiting and the F150 owner said their truck is rated at 300+ miles but he only gets about 220miles in real world.

I also talked to another driver who was also traveling to the Bay Area and he said his car would need another charging stop (I forgot which car he was driving). Anderson is about 210 miles from SF. i charged to 350miles and by the time i got home i had 94 miles left. Doing the math, I lost about 46 miles in range traveling at 70-80mph.

 

[Adnillien]

I wish that the EPA had only one standard. It makes no sense for Lucid to advertise a range for the Pure or Touring that is less than the Model S. Most of the people that have had both will tell you that the Touring or Pure will go further than the Model S. The issue should be with the EPA and not with Lucid.

 

[Neurio]

How many times can we have this same discussion? I think I can summarize for future generations:
1. You can't fault Lucid or Tesla for paying more money for the EPA test that lets them market more range.
2. No EV will go 400 miles at 80 mph, no matter what the EPA test is, at thai current time.
3. The Air will go further than any EV out there right now.

Any questions?

 

[GMan]

Meanwhile ....

The past two OTA updates that I have received have been tuning regen. There was a significant change in terms of smoothness in 2.1.33, and in 2.1.42 regen seems to be cranked up stronger.

Normally, my "Since Last Charge" is 3.7 give or take. So, it's one of two things or both:

1. Regen is even more efficient, and/or
2. Lucid has changed the calculation for "Since Last Charge" to exclude Phantom drain

These numbers are incredible on a Touring with 20" tires: 4.2 m/kWh * 92 kWh= 386 miles of range. That is literally above EPA for 20" wheels (384 miles).

Thank you Lucid for your principle of continuous improvement !