Interview with Peter at InsideEV - 180 mile EVs are the future

[Unmutual]

I'll take an EV with 400-mile range and a 5-minute battery swap.

 

[BS8899]

I'll take an EV with 400-mile range and a 5-minute battery swap.

Battery swap is a fantasy for passenger cars (especially in the US).

Imagine the cost of the battery inventory. It will never be economical. It could work for taxis and transport trucks.

 

[momo3605]

Battery swap is a fantasy for passenger cars (especially in the US).

Imagine the cost of the battery inventory. It will never be economical. It could work for taxis and transport trucks.

great point! I really wish battery swaps were a thing here. Apparently they are doing a lot of battery swap options in China. But I feel like EVs could literally become lifetime use if you could swap out batteries and constantly have the old degraded batteries refurbished over time.

 

[hmp10]

Wow. Lot to unpack here.

Personally, even with the ubiquity of gas stations, I would not buy an ICE vehicle with only 180 miles of range. First is the annoyance of having to stop at gas stations frequently. (One of the reasons I can tolerate the CCS woes I've had on road trips in the Lucid is the freedom I have from gas stations the great majority of the year.) Second, at least for some people in Florida, is the need to evacuate in the event of hurricanes when gas supplies are disrupted and an easy refill is no longer certain. I have friends who have stayed away from EVs for just that reason, and I would have the same concerns with an ICE vehicle with only a 180-mile range. (Actually, I think a long-range EV is a better solution for hurricane evacuation than any ICE vehicle, but that's another discussion.)

The situation is a little different with short-range EVs, at least for local driving for people who have home charging. With those two conditions met, a 180-mile EV should be just fine. However, if either of those conditions are not present, a 180-mile range becomes more problematic.

Especially without home charging available, even if charging stations were as ubiquitous as gas stations, the time for a recharge also has to get in the ballpark of the time to fill a gas tank. So two more conditions have to be present for a short-range EV to become attractive to many people.

That's a whole lot of "ifs" accumulating here.

And with the government now putting the brakes on encouraging the expansion of the public charging infrastructure and favoring further dependence on fossil fuel, the days of the practical 180-mile EV are moving ever farther away.

Of course, Rawlinson is free to dream. I'm not sure I have enough days left to make it worthwhile.

 

[joec]

keep in mind that if a medium size car (less than 3,000lb) can go 180miles (real miles) on a full charge with a relatively small battery (e.g.,, 7+miles/kWh efficiency, 25-30kW battery), you can easily recharge every night at home with 120V or 220V. You don't have to go to a DCFC station at all, unless you don't have a garage and you park on the street. Once you make the cars smaller and lighter, efficiency goes up, weight comes down, battery size goes down.

Also, many of those countries aren't much bigger than 180 miles across.

 

[jedwin]

Also note Peter isn't even saying "Lucid is going to make a 180 mile EV." There's certainly no way this is what you should expect from Midsize. Peter has repeatedly said that Lucid might never even make a sub-25k car, but hopes to license the "world's most efficient EV tech" to other companies, enabling them to make cheap, low-power or low-range EVs.

This was my takeaway as well.

With charging infrastructure continuing to be built out (with or without DC’s $$), over the coming decade EVs won’t be seen as an iconoclastic or risky choice, and there’ll probably a lot more folks who don’t drive long distances who’ll be needing the cheaper option. While of course, the market for longer-range EVs will also remain healthy, and growing as well. So Peter’s surprising 80/20 vision leaves Lucid-branded vehicles in the latter, offering various blends of longer range and more luxury.

(That 80/20 is a nice vision—especially being a LCID investor—though it seems a little pie in the sky to imagine the 80% actually panning out…)

 

[marsarbu]

I'll take an EV with 400-mile range and a 5-minute battery swap.

You're not allowed to. It's Chinese.

 

[californiaboy935]

This. 100x this. The statistics don't lie. The vast majority of Americans drive far less than 180 miles at a stretch. Ever. And the majority of families have more than one car.

Range anxiety has always been irrational for most people. Not all of us, obviously. And certainly not most of the people here.

We keep making assumptions based on our own needs. We're car enthusiasts and EV nerds. 400-500 mile range EVs will remain available for us. For everyone else, 180 miles will be plenty.

And yes, I'm quite sure all those cars with 180-mile packs will be available with upgraded 250 or 300 mile packs. If you have the need, or the money to buy more peace of mind, go for it.

If this gets us to a place where EVs are finally not seen as cars for only the wealthy, I'm all for it.

If it also makes a lightweight weekend roadster more practical to manufacture, sign me up.

The goal is more options to expand the market.

I think the Tesla’s Model 3 has made it a seriously less “wealthy” appeal. I wouldn’t buy a Tesla again simply because of how many are on the road. It’s nice to stand out sometimes. Lucid is a business and needs to make money but high end could be the future with most sales (revenue) coming from licensing and implementing battery tech in other vehicles.

More options are good, but hopefully lucid doesn’t cheapen the brand and loose the following of the luxury market. Part of the reason @Denali_Dane switched from the Performance Tesla was just how ubiquitous Tesla has become in Cali, it’s frankly also attracted some undesirable acting people to the Tesla supercharger network… which was a turn off.

 

[Denali_Dane]

I think the Tesla’s Model 3 has made it a seriously less “wealthy” appeal. I wouldn’t buy a Tesla again simply because of how many are on the road. It’s nice to stand out sometimes. Lucid is a business and needs to make money but high end could be the future with most sales (revenue) coming from licensing and implementing battery tech in other vehicles.

More options are good, but hopefully lucid doesn’t cheapen the brand and loose the following of the luxury market. Part of the reason @Denali_Dane switched from the Performance Tesla was just how ubiquitous Tesla has become in Cali, it’s frankly also attracted some undesirable acting people to the Tesla supercharger network… which was a turn off.

Back in the day when you saw a Tesla out in the wild it was quite an event. "Oh WOW a Tesla!!!" But now a days they are literally everywhere. When I bought my 3 Preformance the wow-ness was practically non existant and nobody even cared. Now a days Teslas are like any other car on the road.
Currently I really enjoy the "Oh WOW!!! WHAT IS THAT THING?" looks I get from my Air.
I get Lucid wanting to sell more and more cars and make the company successful, even if Lucid were to possibly come out with a less refined and cheeper model that would be a competitor for the model 3. Butttttt... I hope they don't.
It's so nice getting those exotic luxury car looks from everyone on the road because that is exactly what it is.

 

[californiaboy935]

Back in the day when you saw a Tesla out in the wild it was quite an event. "Oh WOW a Tesla!!!" But now a days they are literally everywhere. When I bought my 3 Preformance the wow-ness was practically non existant and nobody even cared. Now a days Teslas are like any other car on the road.
Currently I really enjoy the "Oh WOW!!! WHAT IS THAT THING?" looks I get from my Air.
I get Lucid wanting to sell more and more cars and make the company successful, even if Lucid were to possibly come out with a less refined and cheeper model that would be a competitor for the model 3. Butttttt... I hope they don't.
It's so nice getting those exotic luxury car looks from everyone on the road because that is exactly what it is.

I concur, getting parked up front with the Bentleys is nice.