How Much Range Are You Actually Getting?

[Andretex]

The 4.6 on the Pure with 19" was probably with the heat/AC off .. slow around town it goes up into the 5's. Kyle, of "out of spec", did a Tesla test with and without A/C running and found on the Model S using the A/C took as much as 14% ... so, 4.6 without A/C, is about 4.0 with A/C

I did a very quick and basic test while going to and from work a couple days in a row. Luckily, it was a bit cooler in South Florida which gave me the opportunity for the test.

The result: having the AC on did reduce my miles per kwh by about 16%. I plan on doing a more thorough test in the future and will give the details here.

 

[thecodingart]

Not sure why you are trying to be an apologist. If we want this car/brand to succeed, we need to be truthful and realistic about our experience. 50% of rated range is not "great" by any measure. Wake up.

There's a lot of convoluted information in your statements. Here's the thing, EPA numbers are B.S. and you're not getting a 50% loss in range performance in cold weather when directly comparing real world cold/hot weather performance.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-tesla-model-3-highland-range-test/

When comparing to the Model 3 -- even the newer long range refreshes have a 30% loss in difference from EPA ratings. The Model 3 Highland LR, based on actual performance testing reports, only gets somewhere around 250 - 211 miles of range. Any percentage loss due to climate would put this dead at 200 miles. That's far less then what you'll get with any Lucid.

Per some other notes, take into account the comments regarding heat pump use and even battery chemistry changes. If I recall, the newer Model 3s are using LFP batteries which start performing considerably worse in cold weather. Feel free to read into other experiences like this.

The heat pump helps offset those issues, but it's all a balance game. It's not a 1:1 comparison that should be made, and it doesn't present a winning argument. It just comes across as weirdly bias and misleading.

 

[thecodingart]

I did a very quick and basic test while going to and from work a couple days in a row. Luckily, it was a bit cooler in South Florida which gave me the opportunity for the test.

The result: having the AC on did reduce my miles per kwh by about 16%. I plan on doing a more thorough test in the future and will give the details here.

Thanksgiving week took me up a trip from Orlando FL to the Georgia Mountains. The weather range loss set me back from averaging 3.0 mi/kWh over to somewhere floating around 2.5-2.7 mi/kWh. It does have a hit, but it's not nearly as drastic as others make it out. The temperature difference at the time was 70-80% (Orlando) to 40-50% (Georgia). I don't believe I hit anything in the 30s.

And as a note, I was still using my 21" tires for all of this lol.

The screenshot is the worst end of the spectrum.

 

[thecodingart]

Love the car, but no more EV's, period for me. I have done the Charlotte to Chapel Hill trip quite a bit and the last trip was the first where I had to charge on the way back for a 300 mile round trip. I probably could have made it back to Charlotte, but it would have been close. It would have been 1/2 tank of gas for my wife's MB GLS450. It was a bit colder (high 40's/50's) and a little rain on the way up.

Again, the Air ranks in the top two cars I have ever owned. For around town, it is my favorite. For trips, well, we don't take it much further than the Chapel Hill round-trip due to a host of reasons, mostly the uncertain charging infrastructure and the requirement for extensive planning and semi-rigid scheduling. I have an upcoming trip scheduled from Charlotte to Nashville to Atlanta and back to Charlotte, not taking the Lucid.

To be fair, Georgia's entire charging infrastructure outside of Atlanta is god awful (especially EA). I had no major issues in my trip until I needed to charge and was 1hr+ minutes away from Atlanta. They seriously need to address that. I usually had to dig up a few rogue 150 kW Chargepoint stations.

 

[thecodingart]

I was lucky to get 60% from my Model 3 in the summer. I would have been tickled with 50% in winter.

I just completed a trip to Santa Fe, 420 miles away. On the way home, I drove 75 mph in the snow. Still only had to charge once. (To 88%, not 100.) And I have a Touring, not a GT.

This argument comes up time and time again. And one fact remains undisputed: The Air will take you further than any other EV on a charge.

When you are on the road, that’s the only thing that matters.

Well, to be fair (as much as I despise the appearance), my EQS 580 took me just a small bit farther on average (have to give them credit where it's due).

 

[HariK]

Not sure why you are trying to be an apologist. If we want this car/brand to succeed, we need to be truthful and realistic about our experience. 50% of rated range is not "great" by any measure. Wake up.

Man! You missed the point. FYI I am an engineer. Do your homework before you say anything else. I just drove 3800 miles from Montreal to Fremont CA in weather as cold as 30F with an average about 40F 70mph heat at 68F. I have air pure awd. On that trip I averaged about 3.5mi per KWh. When I drove to Canada when the average was 95F same speed AC 75F I averaged 4 mi per KWh. No tesla can match that I know many tesla owners.

 

[CLTGT]

I understand that EVs are not for everyone. But, every time I have traveled with my Lucid Air, it has been great. All it takes is a few minutes while having coffee to figure out where you can stop. I took the liberty to review your Charlotte to Chapel Hill route, and there is an Electrify America charger in Greensboro by a Super Walmart that has an excellent rating and would be a reliable stop. Best of luck on your upcoming trip!

Yes, have used it a couple times, but after an 8pm football game and driving back to Charlotte, that midnight stop is not pleasant. There is one in north Charlotte as well, but that area is even worse, never have stopped there. I am not saying it cannot be done, just saying I have a choice and the Air doesn't make the cut in certain circumstances, especially when travelling with the wife.

 

[hydbob]

The best part about this thread is that we knew these conversations would start happening again once the temps started dropping. So buckle up for a few months of "EV range sucks in cold weather" discussion.

 

[thecodingart]

On the second half of my trip to Santa Fe I turned on the Lucid native nav just for the heck of it, and initially it told me I’d arrive in town with 57 miles of range on arrival. But I did so well in efficiency it quickly climbed up to 92 miles of range on arrival. And it stayed there until the last 10-20 miles, where I got tired of driving 75 and gunned it to 85. Even then I arrived with more than 80 miles of range.

Of course, my percentage meter was at 23%. So by my more reliable calculation, I would have gotten more like 60 miles before being in trouble. But it was nice to see it changing its prediction as I drove along.

Although Lucid's range estimator has gotten way better, it's still terrible. If I wasn't in the car, it would have easily caused my wife to be stranded. Feel free to do some math on this guy.

 

[hmp10]

I don't understand why people take EVs for long road trips.

I think a lot of this depends on the situation and priorities of individual owners.

As I've posted many times, I've had my share of issues with the Electrify America network along the eastern seaboard to the point that we switched to taking one road trip in our Honda Odyssey instead of our Air or our Tesla Model S (due to CCS charging issues with the Air and the much shorter range of the Tesla). However, a couple of months ago we risked a 1200-mile round trip in our Air and found the charging situation much improved with Electrify America. Every station was working, there were no lines, and charging was quicker than it ever had been. If this situation continues to hold, we are going to make the leap to an all-EV household when the Gravity becomes available to replace our Honda Odyssey.

As we have home charging, we will forever be freed from gas stations where lines can be long and pumps are sometimes out of service, especially when we're under tropical storm or hurricane warnings. And we'll never have to deal with another oil change or fuel system cleaning.

It's true we might still find our road trips are a bit longer and more frustrating with EV charging issues, but that is a very small fraction of our annual mileage -- especially as the Air allows us to cross the state to the Miami area and back on a single home charge. A few long charging sessions a year is more than a fair trade to us for the 50-plus gas station stops we make in a year to keep our ICE vehicle fueled up.

On top of that is the sheer joy of driving a powerful EV: the smooth and quiet power delivery, the low center of gravity and consequent handling advantages . . . and the much cheaper fueling costs with home charging.

 

[thecodingart]

Man! You missed the point. FYI I am an engineer. Do your homework before you say anything else. I just drove 3800 miles from Montreal to Fremont CA in weather as cold as 30F with an average about 40F 70mph heat at 68F. I have air pure awd. On that trip I averaged about 3.5mi per KWh. When I drove to Canada when the average was 95F same speed AC 75F I averaged 4 mi per KWh. No tesla can match that I know many tesla owners.

Ironically, my last few EV rallies involved me letting some Tesla's, a Rivian, and Taycan take my charger because I didn't quite need it after a few minutes of charging ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. They desperately did.

 

[Instinctive]

The best part about this thread is that we knew these conversations would start happening again once the temps started dropping. So buckle up for a few months of "EV range sucks in cold weather" discussion.

All the more reason we (the nation) need to make sure we get a more thorough, usable, effective charging infrastructure in place.

 

[hydbob]

Although Lucid's range estimator has gotten way better, it's still terrible. If I wasn't in the car, it would have easily caused my wife to be stranded. Feel free to do some math on this guy.View attachment 16738
View attachment 16737

Well...
GT with 21 is supposedly EPA rated at 4.1875 mi/kwh so...
Yea we know the remaining miles at destination is based off EPA, so using that calculation it's good. Except...no one gets EPA so it's dangerous and that we all agree on.

 

[thecodingart]

Well...
GT with 21 is supposedly EPA rated at 4.1875 mi/kwh so...
Yea we know the remaining miles at destination is based off EPA, so using that calculation it's good. Except...no one gets EPA so it's dangerous and that we all agree on.

Sort of my point given this is more of a selling factor sticking point for OEMs that's not in the best interest of customers. At some point (when Lucid has broken through it's start up barriers) I hope using EPA for this stuff goes away -- that or some morality/good will kicks in to remove it now and go to live mi/kWh estimators.

That remaining miles at destination drives the charge route -- and Lucid has yet to integrate alternatives like Apple Maps route planning into the equation.


Hot take -- ABR sucks.

 

[LVAGT]

I think a lot of this depends on the situation and priorities of individual owners.

Yes, I 100% agree. I had an all-EV household for about 4 years. A Model S and a Model X. Whenever we do road trips, mainly because I'm too lazy to plan ahead of time and too cheap to buy air tickets last minute. That 3 hours of extra drive drain makes the trip so much more dreadful especially with the child in the car too. In the end, we got a gas just for road trips. I just won't recommend people getting an EV if they intend to do long road trips with them consistently. As you said tho, everyone is different.

 

[joec]

Sort of my point given this is more of a selling factor sticking point for OEMs that's not in the best interest of customers. At some point (when Lucid has broken through it's start up barriers) I hope using EPA for this stuff goes away -- that or some morality/good will kicks in to remove it now and go to live mi/kWh estimators.

That remaining miles at destination drives the charge route -- and Lucid has yet to integrate alternatives like Apple Maps route planning into the equation.


Hot take -- ABR sucks.

I agree Lucid should integrate SoC with CarPlay. That would make the CarPlay integration complete for me, and I'd probably never use Lucid's nav again.

But I still wouldn't count on even Apple Maps to give me range estimates.

I watch the percentage as I drive. And the more I drive, the more I learn what the car can do at various speeds and in varying conditions. There's no substitute for that institutional knowledge, combined with real time adjustments. I've cut it close a few times, but I'm getting better and better at predicting just how far I can go.

 

[joec]

Yes, I 100% agree. I had an all-EV household for about 4 years. A Model S and a Model X. Whenever we do road trips, mainly because I'm too lazy to plan ahead of time and too cheap to buy air tickets last minute. That 3 hours of extra drive drain makes the trip so much more dreadful especially with the child in the car too. In the end, we got a gas just for road trips. I just won't recommend people getting an EV if they intend to do long road trips with them consistently. As you said tho, everyone is different.

I keep hearing numbers like "3 hours" as if that is some universal time tax on all road trips taken with an EV.

My recent trip to Santa Fe I charged for a total of 45 minutes in each direction. We ate lunch while we charged.

We spent almost as much time on bathroom breaks as we did charging that trip.

It's cool that some folks don't want to do the few minutes of planning and don't like the risk factor. I totally get it. But this notion that road tripping in an EV means "THREE EXTRA HOURS OF TRAVEL TIME" is oversimplified and just flat out wrong for most normal trips.

 

[Bill55]

I Claiming “fraud” is a strong allegation and a bit dramatic. As for the comparisons on range and cold weather with that M3 of yours, I think the previous commenters have that one covered.

Please don’t call a Model 3 and M3. One is an awesome car the other is a Tesla.

 

[Bill55]

I did a very quick and basic test while going to and from work a couple days in a row. Luckily, it was a bit cooler in South Florida which gave me the opportunity for the test.

The result: having the AC on did reduce my miles per kwh by about 16%. I plan on doing a more thorough test in the future and will give the details here.

It would be nice to know the kW draw of the different sub systems. I estimate the parasitic draw during charging is about 600 watts. 0.6 kW. It‘s hard to get a good estimate for preconditioning. Temperature is going to have a significant impact.

 

[Halodde]

I agree Lucid should integrate SoC with CarPlay. That would make the CarPlay integration complete for me, and I'd probably never use Lucid's nav again.

But I still wouldn't count on even Apple Maps to give me range estimates.

I watch the percentage as I drive. And the more I drive, the more I learn what the car can do at various speeds and in varying conditions. There's no substitute for that institutional knowledge, combined with real time adjustments. I've cut it close a few times, but I'm getting better and better at predicting just how far I can go.

Agreed. I think we're all getting pretty good at it. And I'm still sticking with the 3 x % SOC as my starting point for miles remaining in the battery. Adjust as appropriate