How Much Range Are You Actually Getting?

[stratus]

Agree. This is part of due diligence. Before purchasing a newer technology like an electric vehicle, and especially from a brand new company, you must do your due diligence related to your own life. If high range is important to you and you live in a cold climate, an EV is not your best option. People do not do the research, depend on marketing materials that are obviously biased in favor of selling the product, and then buy the car and complain. I don’t understand that.

I am kind of baffled that there are still a relatively large number of individuals who are incessantly complaining about the range drop during cold weather. There is so much information on this phenomena that is easily accessible. EVs are suited for cold climates as long as one has a knowledge and understanding of their limitations. Even with my significant range dropped during winter, I still get close to 280 miles on a charge , even in the worst conditions. And hey winter doesn’t last forever so good times are on the horizon.

 

[ConcernedOwner]

I have an Air Touring and I get about 3110-315 with stops and starts and overnight inactibity.

 

[Mkatz]

Beautiful 60 degree day today and my efficiency is better than ever. Small sample size but woohoo 400 mi extrapolated range! (Excuse the fingerprints)

View attachment 9799

Funny, my numbers were almost the same today. Winter mixed driving has been 3.4 with 19 inch wheels but once temp goes up can easily get over 4.

 

[Thinjake]

I posted this on a different thread but thought it was applicable here as well:

I have wondered about and was concerned by my "low" mileage. I spoke with Lucid and they gave me some tips and some solid facts about energy usage. Specifically of note, obviously using high heat is a big drain but using ACC is a huge help. Yesterday, I had a round trip of about 60 miles that was mostly flat (some small hills) and involved local roads (40 mph) then highways (3 with 65 mph) then local roads again. As the temps here (upstate NY) we unseasonably warm at 50, I decided to use this as test run. BTW, GT with 20" with snow tires.

On way there, I drove with no heat and used ACC extensively on every road I could. I averaged 4.2.

On way home, I drove with no heat but I also drove it myself and went as fast as 80 mph. total trip average for round trip was 3.7 which means I averaged 3.2 on my own.

Since my last charge (including this test), the average was 3.4 and that was using heat.

Conclusions: Heat is a BIG drain, but so is my right foot! Use ACC to maximize your efficiency.

 

[idiot900]

I am kind of baffled that there are still a relatively large number of individuals who are incessantly complaining about the range drop during cold weather. There is so much information on this phenomena that is easily accessible. EVs are suited for cold climates as long as one has a knowledge and understanding of their limitations. Even with my significant range dropped during winter, I still get close to 280 miles on a charge , even in the worst conditions. And hey winter doesn’t last forever so good times are on the horizon.

It's a significant knock on EVs that there is such a large cold weather drop. But this is the new reality. We are exchanging the flexibility of ICEs in winter with having our own little gas stations in our homes.

In Alaska, outdoor plug points for ICE engine block heaters are commonplace. I wonder if EV drivers tend to use these to keep their batteries warm (although they'd be basically useless for charging)?

 

[stratus]

It's a significant knock on EVs that there is such a large cold weather drop. But this is the new reality. We are exchanging the flexibility of ICEs in winter with having our own little gas stations in our homes.

In Alaska, outdoor plug points for ICE engine block heaters are commonplace. I wonder if EV drivers tend to use these to keep their batteries warm (although they'd be basically useless for charging)?

It’s definitely something that gives people pause when considering an electric vehicle in cold weather. We had a stretch here in late January early February were the temperatures were 20 to 30 below zero for several nights in a row and the high temperature barely hit zero. During those days I drove my car normally and left it parked outside during work . While my m/kwh took a big hit I still felt very comfortable driving the car. In my mind the biggest disadvantage is the lower miles per kilowatt hour for road trips in the winter , necessitating that people stop more frequently for charge. Otherwise, as you said , we have a little gas stations in our garage. So to me , even in winter, the convenience advantage outweigh everything else.

 

[Lucken]

Beautiful 60 degree day today and my efficiency is better than ever. Small sample size but woohoo 400 mi extrapolated range! (Excuse the fingerprints)

View attachment 9799

Can I come over and clean your screen?

 

[Tesla2.0]

I read a reddit article the other day from a New England driver who had just taken delivery for the Rivian R1S. Their range dropped to barely 50% during peak cold days of Polar Vortex a few weeks back. I drive a Model S right now and usually am driving at 80+ and I get 40%+ range drop in winter. My daily commute is 60 miles round trip and I usually have to charge every third day. By now, we all should assume that with an EV, in winter, range would easily drop 30%-50% depending upon driving and conditions. A 200+ mile range in winter for Lucid is still pretty good. Once we accept it, life is easy and we can get on with enjoying the car.

I’m glad I live in Texas, not that cold to sabotage our EV range.

 

[Tesla2.0]

I posted this on a different thread but thought it was applicable here as well:

I have wondered about and was concerned by my "low" mileage. I spoke with Lucid and they gave me some tips and some solid facts about energy usage. Specifically of note, obviously using high heat is a big drain but using ACC is a huge help. Yesterday, I had a round trip of about 60 miles that was mostly flat (some small hills) and involved local roads (40 mph) then highways (3 with 65 mph) then local roads again. As the temps here (upstate NY) we unseasonably warm at 50, I decided to use this as test run. BTW, GT with 20" with snow tires.

On way there, I drove with no heat and used ACC extensively on every road I could. I averaged 4.2.

On way home, I drove with no heat but I also drove it myself and went as fast as 80 mph. total trip average for round trip was 3.7 which means I averaged 3.2 on my own.

Since my last charge (including this test), the average was 3.4 and that was using heat.

Conclusions: Heat is a BIG drain, but so is my right foot! Use ACC to maximize your efficiency.

Use more heated steering wheel and heated seats to offset some cabin comfort. Those energy are derived from low voltage 12V battery, not your main high voltage battery like HVAC.

 

[njg-agt]

Use more heated steering wheel and heated seats to offset some cabin comfort. Those energy are derived from low voltage 12V battery, not your main high voltage battery like HVAC.

The 12v batteries charge off the HVAC, so that aspect (12v vs HVAC) doesn't seem like why limited point heating (wheel & seat) are more efficient than total interior volume heating (all that air, all the material of the interior, the windows radiating warmth to the outside, etc).

 

[AltadenaAir]

As an engineer, I’m a little confused as to why range loss occurs in the cold. Is the problem that the battery is not insulated, like at all? Or perhaps it is not insulated on purpose, to get free cooling during times the battery needs cooling, and this is an engineering tradeoff - free cooling is more needed than avoiding excessive heat loss when the environment is cold?

Does anyone have any first-hand knowledge of these issues?

 

[Bobby]

I do not have first hand knowledge, but here is an article about it: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss

 

[Adnillien]

I do not have first hand knowledge, but here is an article about it: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss

I wish that the authors of this had the dashboard estimate versus actual observed for all makes of cars. The chart below is one reason I say comparing dashboard estimates of efficiency is flawed.

 

[hmp10]

That's an interesting chart. Was there any information about why the "dashboard range" fell short of the EPA range? Manufacturer's decision, or were these figures captured after some battery degradation?

The "observed range" is especially interesting. Our 2015 Model S P90D realized just over 60% of EPA range when driving a steady 80 mph on flat interstates in warm, dry weather -- exactly the figure shown in this charge for a 90D.

Our 2021 Model S Plaid realizes just over 70% of EPA range in the same conditions. I'm wondering if that reflects improvement in Tesla efficiency or a tightening of range testing methods in the intervening years?

 

[NewEnglander]

Use more heated steering wheel and heated seats to offset some cabin comfort. Those energy are derived from low voltage 12V battery, not your main high voltage battery like HVAC.

Stopping heating of the car helps but a little. Most KWH still go in keeping battery warm and running.

I wish that the authors of this had the dashboard estimate versus actual observed for all makes of cars. The chart below is one reason I say comparing dashboard estimates of efficiency is flawed.
View attachment 9822

If you use your iphone in a very cold temperature, you will see the same effect. Lith-Ion batteries discharge very quickly in very cold temperature. Maybe it has something to do with keeping the internal chemistry intact for the cells. Regardless, if 200-220 mile range, a 50% reduction in extreme cold temps with driving over 75 miles an hour is good enough for you, you never have to worry about battery capacity. Because the number of recharge sessions is way more than the useable life of the car. It does bring the cost of charging up but none of us are really buying a 100K car for saving money on gas; We frankly pay way more just in car insurance and PPF and what not. Barring batteries having defects, battery will outlive the car. There are ample Teslas on the road with 400K miles and still on original battery. My coworker in boston has a Model S with 375K miles on it and battery capacity is still at 90%.

 

[hmp10]

There are ample Teslas on the road with 400K miles and still on original battery. My coworker in boston has a Model S with 375K miles on it and battery capacity is still at 90%.

The Amsterdam airport bought a fleet of early Model S' to use as taxis. Those cars were repeatedly fast-charged up to 100% for round-the-clock duty, and everyone -- including Tesla -- was surprised at how much lower the actual battery degradation was compared to the early projections. At the time this was reported, some of those cars had more than 200,000 miles on them.

Some studies have shown that EV batteries experience a fairly rapid decline in capacity in the first year or so of service of several percentage points but then taper off at around 6-7% of degradation, from which point degradation becomes almost negligible.

If the dashboard readout on our car (a Dream with the Samsung batteries) can be trusted, when charging to 80% we now see about a 3% reduction in range with the car nearing 16,000 miles.

 

[CraZ8]

Over the last 14k miles I’ve averaged 3.0 m/kWh which translates to 66% of expected range. That’s on 19 inch wheels for 11000 of those miles and running in sprint only about 5% of the time. I generally drive around 80 mph on the highway. The winter in the northeast has been very mild so I’m a little disappointed in the range, was really hoping to be in the mid 70 percent range

 

[NewEnglander]

Over the last 14k miles I’ve averaged 3.0 m/kWh which translates to 66% of expected range. That’s on 19 inch wheels for 11000 of those miles and running in sprint only about 5% of the time. I generally drive around 80 mph on the highway. The winter in the northeast has been very mild so I’m a little disappointed in the range, was really hoping to be in the mid 70 percent range

Your data is what i generally get with Model S also in Northeast. And i drive around same speeds of 80, mainly highway miles. You can expect 3.5 to 3.8 range spring through fall easily. Driving at 80 vs. 60 is an easy 20% hit to range.

 

[Halodde]

I evidently severely underestimated the frequency which I will have to charge for daily use. I just averaged 2.6 mi/kwh on the highway with ACC at 73 mph. So, my range estimate (which I know is unrealistic) dropped 283 miles during my 140 mile trip. And now sitting at an EA 150 kw charger getting only 83 kw because it's being limited by the station, I'm questioning whether or not any EV has adequate range for my amount of driving and/or the weather conditions in which I am forced drive.

 

[DBV]

I evidently severely underestimated the frequency which I will have to charge for daily use. I just averaged 2.6 mi/kwh on the highway with ACC at 73 mph. So, my range estimate (which I know is unrealistic) dropped 283 miles during my 140 mile trip. And now sitting at an EA 150 kw charger getting only 83 kw because it's being limited by the station, I'm questioning whether or not any EV has adequate range for my amount of driving and/or the weather conditions in which I am forced drive.

Curious how much total range you are estimating you are getting in the Winter months? That is huge for me too. Thanks!