Enthusiast Canceling after the Launch event - in Depth Reasons/discrepancies noted

[RangePerformance]

Just a humorous post here. For the one purchasing a Ioniq 5 I will be waving at you in my rear view mirror. I’m sure a great vehicle, but against a Lucid. Come on man!

 

[AirDoll]

Sorry, this looks like a post from TMC. Love it or leave it.

I'm not sure what/who TMC is, but I guess I could have used less snark and just said love it or leave it. I am a kind person though, so I really would give someone a ride wherever they need to go.

I think Airdolt may have had his tongue in cheek but I do agree with what he says. There are many companies making cars and many making BEVs. None are perfect. Some have great after sale experience but lack range; others have range but lack power; some lack heated seats. My point is that the Lucid Air may not be the right vehicle for some folks and we should honor that.

Definitely a bit of "tongue in cheek", but my sentiment was equal parts sarcasm and sincerity, it just came out of frustration.

It seems there's a lot of people that pile in the complaint bus on this forum under the disguise of "I'm just saying this in here to be helpful so Lucid will see it and change their ways". Although I'm sure they scroll through on occasion, but maybe to get so detailed in your complaints about them you'd be much better served by emailing them directly?

If you want all of the "bells & whistles" a car company has to offer, you have to pay for a higher trim level or pay per accessory to have them added on. Everyone knows this, every manufacturer does it. So maybe you assumed every Air would have the things you wanted/expected, or even the advertising led you to that assumption, but either way every trim level of the Air is going to be an amazing car that is incredible to drive.

It just seems odd to me that people would come on an "OWNERS FORUM" (yes I know there are potential owners, future owners, & current owners all on here) where there are actual owners of a car that you know paid a lot of money (by choice) worked their a$$ off, and waited a very long time to get what might just be their dream car, just so they can list out a dozen complaints and comparisons that they feel are inferior and therefore not good enough for them. Then they just announce their reservation cancellation like it's some mic drop catastrophic event. That's where I feel the divide is on here, it's definitely not from any current owner judging any future owner regardless of trim level.

I personally love to keep seeing friends and strangers alike getting their cars and putting in their reservations because they are excited and to see the Lucid owners family grow! If it's not for you after you research & drive it, there's absolutely no judgment in that, carry on and I truly hope you enjoy and love whatever you drive And for the record I'm a she, I know we are way outnumbered on here so I completely understand the assumption

 

[victoryroad]

You can't OTA hardware installations, and at the moment, future retrofitting hardware is not a consideration by the Lucid team. There are major hardware differences between DD and DDP.

I do not understand why you brought up Tesla's FSD, since that is Level 3 autonomy, that is not what we are discussing here. We are discussing standard Level 2 autonomous features like HA, which apparently is locked behind hardware differences of DDP.

Per OP's inquiry that suggests HA is not considered to ever come to standard DD via OTA (I also personally inquired to fact-check), and per the Lucid's ADAS team's heavy reliance on NVIDIA's DRIVE Hyperion platform, which is LIDAR-driven, it doesn't seem like the current trajectory enables "waiting until such autonomous features are a reality" with standard DD.

I'm not sure what/who TMC is, but I guess I could have used less snark and just said love it or leave it. I am a kind person though, so I really would give someone a ride wherever they need to go.



Definitely a bit of "tongue in cheek", but my sentiment was equal parts sarcasm and sincerity, it just came out of frustration.

It seems there's a lot of people that pile in the complaint bus on this forum under the disguise of "I'm just saying this in here to be helpful so Lucid will see it and change their ways". Although I'm sure they scroll through on occasion, but maybe to get so detailed in your complaints about them you'd be much better served by emailing them directly?

If you want all of the "bells & whistles" a car company has to offer, you have to pay for a higher trim level or pay per accessory to have them added on. Everyone knows this, every manufacturer does it. So maybe you assumed every Air would have the things you wanted/expected, or even the advertising led you to that assumption, but either way every trim level of the Air is going to be an amazing car that is incredible to drive.

It just seems odd to me that people would come on an "OWNERS FORUM" (yes I know there are potential owners, future owners, & current owners all on here) where there are actual owners of a car that you know paid a lot of money (by choice) worked their a$$ off, and waited a very long time to get what might just be their dream car, just so they can list out a dozen complaints and comparisons that they feel are inferior and therefore not good enough for them. Then they just announce their reservation cancellation like it's some mic drop catastrophic event. That's where I feel the divide is on here, it's definitely not from any current owner judging any future owner regardless of trim level.

I personally love to keep seeing friends and strangers alike getting their cars and putting in their reservations because they are excited and to see the Lucid owners family grow! If it's not for you after you research & drive it, there's absolutely no judgment in that, carry on and I truly hope you enjoy and love whatever you drive And for the record I'm a she, I know we are way outnumbered on here so I completely understand the assumption

Thank you. Well said.

 

[Lucken]

i think the lower cost Japanese and Korean OEMs, Germans et al are at risk and yes, can get marketshare “eaten alive.” There’s nothing racial about that comment, it merely has to do with where the cars are made, “bunnylebowski”. The post was complimentary of the Nio feature set, which is definitionally not “xenophobic.”

And I suspect most of us did not take it that way at all. I suspect that if we were talking about Volvo in the same way and it was stated, 'The Swedes are going to eat us alive', it would not be interpreted the same way. We sure live in hyper-sensitive times.

 

[Lucken]

I'm not sure what/who TMC is, but I guess I could have used less snark and just said love it or leave it. I am a kind person though, so I really would give someone a ride wherever they need to go.

TMC is 'Tesla Motor Club', probably the most popular Tesla forum on the net. That forum is filled with belligerent, intolerant posters (at least when I was on it) who don't tolerate Tesla criticism very well. I gave up on it for that reason when I owned a MS.

BTW, I'm not saying that descriptive fits you.

 

[t12g]

And I suspect most of us did not take it that way at all. I suspect that if we were talking about Volvo in the same way and it was stated, 'The Swedes are going to eat us alive', it would not be interpreted the same way. We sure live in hyper-sensitive times.

True. But I'd also like to mention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Vincent_Chin.

Ironically Volvo is owned by a Chinese company now.

 

[Lucken]

True. But I'd also like to mention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Vincent_Chin.

Ironically Volvo is owned by a Chinese company now.

See, you can't win.

 

[3rdMotor]

Just a humorous post here. For the one purchasing a Ioniq 5 I will be waving at you in my rear view mirror. I’m sure a great vehicle, but against a Lucid. Come on man!

I’m with you on that sentiment lol! The Lucid and the Ionic5 are not peers, with the Lucid being head and shoulders above the Ionic5.

 

[noobzilla]

Decided to downgrade from Touring, but I gave in and got the DDP on my Pure mostly for the cameras and 360 view and collision avoidance for peace of mind in terms of safety and security.

 

[misanoblue]

If you look at the press release currently on the Lucid website, Dreamdrive (non-pro) clearly includes highway assist. See first bullet and 3rd bullet.

I placed my order for my Pure without Dreamdrive PRO. Since any potential removal of highway assist was not made clear, I will expect Highway assist to be included.

 

[misanoblue]

Lucid cannot expect me as a customer to dive into heaps of information to verify that features they said were included when I locked my order (during IRA) are still included. That's ridiculous. I locked my order with a written binding agreement prior to updates mentioned earlier in this thread.

Lucid will have to deliver, or they'll have a class action. Simple.

 

[thecodingart]

If you look at the press release currently on the Lucid website, Dreamdrive (non-pro) clearly includes highway assist. See first bullet and 3rd bullet.

I placed my order for my Pure without Dreamdrive PRO. Since any potential removal of highway assist was not made clear, I will expect Highway assist to be included.

View attachment 7004

Just be careful regarding expectations when the definitions of Highway Assist and Highway Pilot are still vague.

 

[misanoblue]

Just be careful regarding expectations when the definitions of Highway Assist and Highway Pilot are still vague.

Glad you brought that up. Not vague here.

 

[joec]

Glad you brought that up. Not vague here.
View attachment 7005

That press release was from October 2021, no?

A lot changes in 13 months.

At the bottom, that release includes the standard mumbo-jumbo about Forward looking statements, correct?

Something like this?

"Forward-Looking Statements
This communication includes “forward-looking statements” within the meaning of the “safe harbor” provisions of the United States Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995". And so on?

In other words, "We reserve the right to never deliver on any of this. So long as we believe today this is what we will be able to offer in the future."

This was written before Highway Assist existed as an actual piece of software. The developers of that software evidently determined they were not comfortable releasing Highway Assist in its current state without the help of extra LiDAR hardware that is only included in Dream Drive Pro. So they updated their offering as such.

They may determine in the future they can in fact create a Highway Assist product within the hardware parameters of Dream Drive. Personally, I think they will. But until then, they refer you to the "Forward Looking Statements" provision of every press release they send, and ask for your patience.

In the configurator for all Air models, the Dream Drive and Dream Drive Pro sections make it clear Highway Assist is now part of Dream Drive Pro.

 

[misanoblue]

That press release was from October 2021, no?

A lot changes in 13 months.

At the bottom, that release includes the standard mumbo-jumbo about Forward looking statements, correct?

Something like this?

"Forward-Looking Statements
This communication includes “forward-looking statements” within the meaning of the “safe harbor” provisions of the United States Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995". And so on?

In other words, "We reserve the right to never deliver on any of this. So long as we believe today this is what we will be able to offer in the future."

This was written before Highway Assist existed as an actual piece of software. The developers of that software evidently determined they were not comfortable releasing Highway Assist in its current state without the help of extra LiDAR hardware that is only included in Dream Drive Pro. So they updated their offering as such.

They may determine in the future they can in fact create a Highway Assist product within the hardware parameters of Dream Drive. Personally, I think they will. But until then, they refer you to the "Forward Looking Statements" provision of every press release they send, and ask for your patience.

In the configurator for all Air models, the Dream Drive and Dream Drive Pro sections make it clear Highway Assist is now part of Dream Drive Pro.

Understand. For people buying today, Lucid can change what they're offering.

However, Lucid changed this policy about a week ago. Anyone with written binding contracts done in August 2022 should reasonably expect the car they ordered to include the features promised at the time of the order, when the deposit became non-refundable. Otherwise, what's to stop Lucid from removing other features before delivery, like the 3 years of EA charging?

Isn't this what contracts are for?

 

[joec]

Understand. For people buying today, Lucid can change what they're offering.

However, Lucid changed this policy about a week ago. Anyone with written binding contracts done in August 2022 should reasonably expect the car they ordered to include the features promised at the time of the order, when the deposit became non-refundable. Otherwise, what's to stop Lucid from removing other features before delivery, like the 3 years of EA charging?

Nothing. They could take away whatever they like, and you could walk away from the agreement with your $1,000 and no car, if you can successfully argue that they aren't delivering on what they promised. Some on this site have done just that, and as far as I can tell, Lucid is not fighting them on it.

That is, assuming you walk away before you finalize the order. Once you finalize the order (which didn't start happening for Touring or Pure until they made it clear Highway Assist is only part of Dream Drive Pro) you are on the hook for your deposit.

My greater point about that press release, though, is that they did not "promise" you Highway Assist in Dream Drive. The Forward Looking Statements clause is there specifically to point out that nothing they say in a press release is a "promise." It's what they hope to achieve.

But like I said, I doubt Lucid wants the bad press from someone demanding their deposit back and not getting it. So they likely would let you have it back without much argument.So long as you don't finalize the order and start the production process of your car.

 

[misanoblue]

Very interesting. I was unaware that the non-refundable deposit could actually be refundable. That does change things.

Regarding the press release, I've bought lots of cars and never had an issue like this. If you cannot trust information in the press releases (and henceforth information reported in the media, and was not corrected with a subsequent press release), what information sources can you trust when making a vehicle order?

 

[thecodingart]

Very interesting. I was unaware that the non-refundable deposit could actually be refundable. That does change things.

Regarding the press release, I've bought lots of cars and never had an issue like this. If you cannot trust information in the press releases (and henceforth information reported in the media, and was not corrected with a subsequent press release), what information sources can you trust when making a vehicle order?

It’s not a matter of trust. The press release verbiage is there as pointed out by @joec. Intentions might be there too, but as most software and hardware, if the features are not immediately available, there are variables that can impact decisions and change intention along the way. They aren’t promising anything without an escape hatch as they themselves aren’t 100% confident in delivering on any promises. It’s our responsibility as the consumer to acknowledge that. The same thing applies to even phone updates today.

A VERY good example of this is FSD on any Tesla. Poor 2014 Model S owners.. (although Musk has a bad habit of verbally committing to things that have no contractual obligations).

 

[misanoblue]

What makes me angry is that I believe they're weaseling out of what was previously stated because they needed to show a greater delineation between DreamDrive and DreamDrivePro to support the incremental $10,000 price. You don't need Lidar for lane centering. Literally no one uses lidar for lane centering. It uses the same camera needed for adaptive cruise control.

It would be very hard to convince me that the deletion was due to technical limitations from hardware.

 

[thecodingart]

What makes me angry is that I belive they're weaseling out of what was previously stated because they needed to show a greater delineation between DreamDrive and DreamDrivePro to support the incremental $10,000 price. You don't need Lidar for lane centering. Literally no one uses lidar for lane centering. It uses the same camera needed for adaptive cruise control.

It’s hard to hold them accountable for something that’s been vague in definition from the start, so I wouldn’t describe this as “weaseling out”. But it’s worth pushing them to ensure there’s a proper bang for the buck here considering pricing, competition, and value proposition.

At some point in the near future, they should be committing to the package definitions.