Enthusiast Canceling after the Launch event - in Depth Reasons/discrepancies noted

[C28]

Regardless of what Mercedes or BMW do for L2 or L3 system up charges, it’s quite simply that the Lucid or NVIDIA relevant fleet is not large/high value enough engineering wise as a percent of the population to realistically deliver lane keeping /L2 for non LiDAR systems. As @Grnr92663 noted.

Tough news, but the truth. Which is why I canceled (with refund post deposit) and find it important to make the truth clear here to people who are fellow enthusiasts that don’t want to pay $150k GT prices), as I was tired of Lucid’s non clarity.

I’d happily have taken a price increase in my pure or touring of $2k for the LiDAR hardware for basics high assist, if they had just been honest about it and said we’ll never make it without LiDAR for highway assist, and full L3 Dreamdrive is $10k

I expect many owners are in the same boat. Hope Lucid changes. If not, I suspect a wave of Pure cancellations will make them change something.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Regardless of what Mercedes or BMW do for L2 or L3 system up charges, it’s quite simply that the Lucid or NVIDIA relevant fleet is not large/high value enough engineering wise as a percent of the population to realistically deliver lane keeping /L2 for non LiDAR systems. As @Grnr92663 noted.

Tough news, but the truth. Which is why I canceled (with refund post deposit) and find it important to make the truth clear here to people who are fellow enthusiasts that don’t want to pay $150k GT prices), as I was tired of Lucid’s non clarity.

I’d happily have taken a price increase in my pure or touring of $2k for the LiDAR hardware for basics high assist, if they had just been honest about it and said we’ll never make it without LiDAR for highway assist, and full L3 Dreamdrive is $10k

I expect many owners are in the same boat. Hope Lucid changes. If not, I suspect a wave of Pure cancellations will make them change something.

Maybe Lucid should’ve keep promising to deliver something they have not yet produced without LiDAR for Highway Assist to make you happy like how Tesla is doing in Park Assist without Ultra Sonic Sensors.

 

[DBV]

Both MB and BMW charges for these options.

They do, but it is no where near what Lucid charges just to get it. Tesla does not charge for it.

 

[Cordy]

The other OEMs have different models to differentiate and offer choice to each level of customer. While very similar Lucid only produces the Air but with various options. I see this less as having a 7 series vs 5 series and more like having a 760i, 750i, and 740i. Same vehicle with features standard vs optional. This is great as it makes the choice simpler for the consumer and it makes it easier for them to produce.

If you've purchased a GT or higher I absolutely expect you to have a value add compared to other trims i.e. range, performance, charging, DDP, massaging seats, etc all standard. For the more cash sensitive folks purchasing lower trims, I don't think the expectation is that they are given additional features for free or that don't exist. The point is that we have minimal options and certain features are locked behind other features. The upcoming Polestar 3 has a pilot package which includes ADAS features and other items and if you want lidar for greater accuracy and autonomous driving that is a separate package. I believe that is what people are asking for. And before it's stated Lucid is superior in all other categories.

I concede we are all early adopters and that with future generations this may change. For any business, feedback is important, and it should be important for them to know why they've lost a potential customer. It is for them to decide whether that reason or that customer was of value to them.

 

[Tesla2.0]

The other OEMs have different models to differentiate and offer choice to each level of customer. While very similar Lucid only produces the Air but with various options. I see this less as having a 7 series vs 5 series and more like having a 760i, 750i, and 740i. Same vehicle with features standard vs optional. This is great as it makes the choice simpler for the consumer and it makes it easier for them to produce.

If you've purchased a GT or higher I absolutely expect you to have a value add compared to other trims i.e. range, performance, charging, DDP, massaging seats, etc all standard. For the more cash sensitive folks purchasing lower trims, I don't think the expectation is that they are given additional features for free or that don't exist. The point is that we have minimal options and certain features are locked behind other features. The upcoming Polestar 3 has a pilot package which includes ADAS features and other items and if you want lidar for greater accuracy and autonomous driving that is a separate package. I believe that is what people are asking for. And before it's stated Lucid is superior in all other categories.

I concede we are all early adopters and that with future generations this may change. For any business, feedback is important, and it should be important for them to know why they've lost a potential customer. It is for them to decide whether that reason or that customer was of value to them.

Our family have both Air GT and Polestar 2 (Pilot/Plus/leather packages). So I can fairly assess the differences after driving both.

Lucid DreamDrive has way more ADAS features in settings than Polestar 2 Pilot package in settings. DreamDrive is standard equipped in all trims where as Polestar 2 Pilot package cost $3400 more. So to have Lidar, you MUST order Pilot package first then add unpublished Lidar price as extra feature later in Q2/2023. We wanted that ventilated Nappa leather seats($4000) but we had to add Plus package first($4200) (which is not bad pricing that comes with glass roof, wireless phone charging, vegan leather, ambient light, air filter and heat pump to enhance battery efficiency for winter.)

Polestar 2’s 360 view in its Pilot package is just an eagle overhead view with low resolution. Lucid certainly cab offer that simple version, but Lucid offers it in its DD Pro package where its Pilot Panel renders “virtual reality” high definition for you to move a floating view unlike any other car has ever done. Its Cockpit Panel render front or rear wide angle camera view with “augmented reality” of invisible shield line drawn onto live video to show how close gap to object is to car instead of just reporting simple # of inches like Tesla does.

Like how Lucid is doing the higher end tiers first, Polestar 3 will offer production of fully loaded first, then as supply constraint eased, they will let you order lesser Polestar 3 minus Pilot / Plus / Dual motors / Performance.

Lucid Air has a lot bigger cabin than Polestar 2. I expect the same for Gravity to be more spacious than Polestar 3. They are just cars of different tiers, Polestar is like tech division of Volvo got spawned off as a separate company. Polestar 1 was ridiculous bland looking hybrid at $156k. Maybe Sapphire one day might be spawn off? Who knows. Volvo is known for safety/luxury. Lucid is trying to establish itself as luxury/drivetrain brand.

Every company has its own prerogatives. To us, Tesla is just too bland in its cabin to be that comfortable for its price. Tesla has great supercharging network and infotainment, but I bet Lucid and charging network will close that gap in 2~3 years while the plushy interior cabin is here to stay.

IMO, Lucid seems just following success of Tesla business development path of flagship sedan, high end SUV, midsize sedan, midsize SUV in this release order and just trying to up 1 everything what Tesla did.

 

[Cordy]

Our family have both Air GT and Polestar 2 (Pilot/Plus/leather packages). So I can fairly assess the differences after driving both.

Lucid DreamDrive has way more ADAS features in settings than Polestar 2 Pilot package in settings. DreamDrive is standard equipped in all trims where as Polestar 2 Pilot package cost $3400 more. So to have Lidar, you MUST order Pilot package first then add unpublished Lidar price as extra feature later in Q2/2023. We wanted that ventilated Nappa leather seats($4000) but we had to add Plus package first($4200) (which is not bad pricing that comes with glass roof, wireless phone charging, vegan leather, ambient light, air filter and heat pump to enhance battery efficiency for winter.)

Polestar 2’s 360 view in its Pilot package is just an eagle overhead view with low resolution. Lucid can certain offer that simple version, but Lucid put in its DD Pro package where its Pilot Panel offers “virtual reality” high definition for you to move a floating view unlike any other car has ever done. Its Cockpit Panel offer front or rear wide angle camera view with “augmented reality” of invisible shield line drawn onto live video to show how close gap to object is to car instead of just reporting # of inches like Tesla.

Like how Lucid is doing the higher end tiers first, Polestar 3 will offer production of fully loaded first, then as supply constraint eased, they will let you order lesser Polestar 3 minus Pilot / Plus / Dual motors / Performance.

Lucid Air has a lot bigger cabin than Polestar 2. I expect the same for Gravity to be more spacious than Polestar 3. They are just cars of different tiers, Polestar is like tech division of Volvo got spawned off as a separate company. Polestar 1 was ridiculous bland looking hybrid at $156k. Maybe Sapphire one day might be spawn off? Who knows. Volvo is known for safety/luxury. Lucid is trying to establish itself as luxury/drivetrain brand.

Every company has its own prerogatives. To us, Tesla is just too bland in its cabin to be that comfortable for its price. Tesla has great supercharging network and infotainment, but I bet Lucid and charging network will close that gap in 2~3 years while the plushy interior cabin is here to stay.

My current vehicle is actually a P2 with all the packages as yours. And I will be selling it for my Touring. I enjoy it but I understand all of the ways that the Air will be better. And this might not be a popular view but the 360 view in the P2 which is the same as what I had in my Q60 is sufficient for it's intended purpose, parking. Is it cool to see a 3D view of the car, absolutely! But once that novelty wears off all you really need when parking is to make sure you have clearance on all sides. As mentioned, I understand the features and how much better they are in the Lucid, but what many are looking for is a choice. I optioned without DDP as the only feature I wanted from that was the surround view. But the price of admission was not worth it to me. I understand why Lucid did it and I have decided to live without it. I don't expect it since it was never promised but I do hope one day they could offer a top down only view. A Surround View for DD and a 3D Surround View for DDP. Like many here Tesla was never really a choice based on the reasons you mentioned.

 

[MadMax]

Our family have both Air GT and Polestar 2 (Pilot/Plus/leather packages). So I can fairly assess the differences after driving both.

Lucid DreamDrive has way more ADAS features in settings than Polestar 2 Pilot package in settings. DreamDrive is standard equipped in all trims where as Polestar 2 Pilot package cost $3400 more. So to have Lidar, you MUST order Pilot package first then add unpublished Lidar price as extra feature later in Q2/2023. We wanted that ventilated Nappa leather seats($4000) but we had to add Plus package first($4200) (which is not bad pricing that comes with glass roof, wireless phone charging, vegan leather, ambient light, air filter and heat pump to enhance battery efficiency for winter.)

Polestar 2’s 360 view in its Pilot package is just an eagle overhead view with low resolution. Lucid certainly cab offer that simple version, but Lucid offers it in its DD Pro package where its Pilot Panel renders “virtual reality” high definition for you to move a floating view unlike any other car has ever done. Its Cockpit Panel render front or rear wide angle camera view with “augmented reality” of invisible shield line drawn onto live video to show how close gap to object is to car instead of just reporting simple # of inches like Tesla does.

Like how Lucid is doing the higher end tiers first, Polestar 3 will offer production of fully loaded first, then as supply constraint eased, they will let you order lesser Polestar 3 minus Pilot / Plus / Dual motors / Performance.

Lucid Air has a lot bigger cabin than Polestar 2. I expect the same for Gravity to be more spacious than Polestar 3. They are just cars of different tiers, Polestar is like tech division of Volvo got spawned off as a separate company. Polestar 1 was ridiculous bland looking hybrid at $156k. Maybe Sapphire one day might be spawn off? Who knows. Volvo is known for safety/luxury. Lucid is trying to establish itself as luxury/drivetrain brand.

Every company has its own prerogatives. To us, Tesla is just too bland in its cabin to be that comfortable for its price. Tesla has great supercharging network and infotainment, but I bet Lucid and charging network will close that gap in 2~3 years while the plushy interior cabin is here to stay.

IMO, Lucid seems just following success of Tesla business development path of flagship sedan, high end SUV, midsize sedan, midsize SUV in this release order and just trying to up 1 everything what Tesla did.

Hey ! At least one other current Polestar 2 owner here. What I can add is that with 2022 model I can use highway assist and what surprised me most of all is it worked in actual stop and go traffic…coming to full stops and taking off when lead vehicle resumed forward progress. Of course hands on the wheel but lane centering and all the other features worked beautifully. I’ve gotten used to that for long trips and would hope even the pure can do what a 61k car can do. The elephant in the room is the possible extra 124 miles of range the lucid affords. Actually, the only reason I have a reservation.

 

[Tesla2.0]

My current vehicle is actually a P2 with all the packages as yours. And I will be selling it for my Touring. I enjoy it but I understand all of the ways that the Air will be better. And this might not be a popular view but the 360 view in the P2 which is the same as what I had in my Q60 is sufficient for its intended purpose, parking. Is it cool to see a 3D view of the car, absolutely! But once that novelty wears off all you really need when parking is to make sure you have clearance on all sides. As mentioned, I understand the features and how much better they are in the Lucid, but what many are looking for is a choice. I optioned without DDP as the only feature I wanted from that was the surround view. But the price of admission was not worth it to me. I understand why Lucid did it and I have decided to live without it. I don't expect it since it was never promised but I do hope one day they could offer a top down only view. A Surround View for DD and a 3D Surround View for DDP. Like many here Tesla was never really a choice based on the reasons you mentioned.

This is funny. We have both Lucid Pure and Rivian R1S ordered as wife’s next EV and see whichever comes first. This week Lucid called to finalize Pure design for later 2023 production. We are in dilemma to keep this order or not. My son pleading me to keep Pure and sell PS2 instead. I asked him why since he gospel P2 over M3. He said his head clearance is not high enough in both compare to Air and overall cabin is just very tight. He said even the most basic Air is a lot better than fully loaded PS2 and Tesla MY at similar price range. We locked in Pure before price hike. So it’s 13k price difference between the two. Dilemma… Dilemma…

 

[Steveinarizona]

This is funny. We have both Lucid Pure and Rivian R1S ordered as wife’s next EV and see whichever comes first. This week Lucid called to finalize Pure design for later 2023 production. We are in dilemma to keep this order or not. My son pleading me to keep Pure and sell PS2 instead. I asked him why since he gospel P2 over M3. He said his head clearance is not high enough in both compare to Air and overall cabin is just very tight. He said even the most basic Air is a lot better than fully loaded PS2 and Tesla MY at similar price range. We locked in Pure before price hike. So it’s 13k price difference between the two. Dilemma… Dilemma…

BMW has a long history of publishing specs that are very, very conservative. For example, BMW cars tend to run on the dyno at the wheels at or about their published numbers whereas most cars lose 10-20% of their HP from the crank tot he wheels. In addition, both Lucid and Tesla used the less conservative EPA testing method.

But having said all that, there are cars that have better more efficient electrical systems than others. I would be very tempted by the I4 M50 if it only had a bit more range and I carefully selected my color scheme to mitigate the effect of the totally unnecessary Bugs Bunny grille. But it doesn't so I won't.

 

[Cordy]

This is funny. We have both Lucid Pure and Rivian R1S ordered as wife’s next EV and see whichever comes first. This week Lucid called to finalize Pure design for later 2023 production. We are in dilemma to keep this order or not. My son pleading me to keep Pure and sell PS2 instead. I asked him why since he gospel P2 over M3. He said his head clearance is not high enough in both compare to Air and overall cabin is just very tight. He said even the most basic Air is a lot better than fully loaded PS2 and Tesla MY at similar price range. We locked in Pure before price hike. So it’s 13k price difference between the two. Dilemma… Dilemma…

Well I think we can all safely say sell the P2 and get the Pure. Lol

 

[Tesla2.0]

Hey ! At least one other current Polestar 2 owner here. What I can add is that with 2022 model I can use highway assist and what surprised me most of all is it worked in actual stop and go traffic…coming to full stops and taking off when lead vehicle resumed forward progress. Of course hands on the wheel but lane centering and all the other features worked beautifully. I’ve gotten used to that for long trips and would hope even the pure can do what a 61k car can do. The elephant in the room is the possible extra 124 miles of range the lucid affords. Actually, the only reason I have a reservation.

Stop and go traffic you can you use highway assist??? We only tried Adaptive Cruise Control. Explain how to do that in PS2. I really want to know how. (TY in advance)

 

[Tesla2.0]

The elephant in the room is the possible extra 124 miles of range the lucid affords. Actually, the only reason I have a reservation.

410 - 260 = 150 extra miles of range in best case scenario. But Polestar 2 has heat pump which is basically a must in Nordic region to save its range. In Texas, I don’t need it, but now I can see my range is reduced than a couple months back. I don’t think Air has heat pump, or not yet…

 

[Cordy]

Stop and go traffic you can you use highway assist??? We only tried Adaptive Cruise Control. Explain how to do that in PS2. I really want to know how. (TY in advance)

I assume he's referring to ACC with Pilot Assist.

 

[Babyrocko1908]

410 - 260 = 150 extra miles of range in best case scenario. But Polestar 2 has heat pump which is basically a must in Nordic region to save its range. In Texas, I don’t need it, but now I can see my range is reduced than a couple months back. I don’t think Air has heat pump, or not yet…

What does the heat pump do? I've heard this term a few times now for Lucid Air's and I don't understand what the function is.

 

[Tesla2.0]

What does the heat pump do? I've heard this term a few times now for Lucid Air's and I don't understand what the function is.

Heat pump moves heat from one location to another location. Like in refrigerator, it extracts heat from cool cabin to radiator. ICE cars moved pistons chamber heat to cabin. I suppose in EV, there will be heat from motor friction, and that can be harnessed and transferred.

 

[austinlucid]

I honestly think it's a shame that car companies have convinced a lot of people that some of these automated features are "must haves" in luxury cars, when in reality they provide little actual value to the driver.

I totally agree with what some others have written about Highway Assist - it's a really "neat" feature, but considering I don't really trust it 100%, and I have to have my hands on the wheel at all time, it doesn't really make my drive any easier. And this goes for other versions of this in other cars.

I'll give another simple example. The ultimate "first world problem" I know, but I hate auto windshield wipers. Reason being where I live we often get light, "misty" rain, and auto wipers suck at this - by the time they turn on my windshield is covered with rain drops, so I always need to flick in manually anyway. My point is that I think "old school" wipers with low, medium, high and, importantly, adjustable intermittent speed, worked better in every way. I feel that auto wipers are basically a "parlor trick", and now they are almost expected on high end vehicles because they are more advanced tech, but, at least for me, they provide a far worse experience.

 

[stratus]

I honestly think it's a shame that car companies have convinced a lot of people that some of these automated features are "must haves" in luxury cars, when in reality they provide little actual value to the driver.

I totally agree with what some others have written about Highway Assist - it's a really "neat" feature, but considering I don't really trust it 100%, and I have to have my hands on the wheel at all time, it doesn't really make my drive any easier. And this goes for other versions of this in other cars.

I'll give another simple example. The ultimate "first world problem" I know, but I hate auto windshield wipers. Reason being where I live we often get light, "misty" rain, and auto wipers suck at this - by the time they turn on my windshield is covered with rain drops, so I always need to flick in manually anyway. My point is that I think "old school" wipers with low, medium, high and, importantly, adjustable intermittent speed, worked better in every way. I feel that auto wipers are basically a "parlor trick", and now they are almost expected on high end vehicles because they are more advanced tech, but, at least for me, they provide a far worse experience.

I have been lamenting the focus on certain features that some people think are essential to an expensive or luxury car experience. I do understand that everyone has their priorities, and myself and some others may just see things a little differently. For some ,luxury and value means comfort, a surreal driving experience , and a general feeling of bliss behind the wheel. For others it means tech tech tech. I think there is a nice balance, and in my opinion Lucid has struck that pretty well. Highway assist is definitely a neat feature but I personally don’t think it’s that much more useful than ACC.
For those individuals dissatisfied with Lucid for not including certain features on certain models, I truly believe the driving dynamics and interior comfort emphatically outweigh these omissions.

 

[ac.bill]

Many Lucid features are in flux, still under development. Lucid has tried to avoid sharing details of future features as much as possible. I'm sure Tesla's experience with promised features/vehicles has played into that decision. I can understand that someone who insists on a defined list of features and specs might be comfortable waiting or perhaps choosing a different vehicle altogether. Abandoning a reservation, of course, puts a buyer at the end of the line once the full feature list is announced and to their approval. Delaying confirmation of an order is easy and without cost.

Given the number of reservations, anyone who abandons their reservation today just moves everyone else ahead one step. Throwing a temper tantrum is not likely to upset other's reservation status.

I have an Air GT, love it, and would be quite surprised if all the features on that car were standard on a Touring model costing a full Ford F-150 Lariat (ICE) less. I hope to get a chance to drive a Pure RWD some day. I believe that will be a phenomenal value as a driver's car. Without the weight of the big battery and front drive train and devoid of that AWD feel I suspect the handling will be even sharper than on the incredible GT.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Hey ! At least one other current Polestar 2 owner here. What I can add is that with 2022 model I can use highway assist and what surprised me most of all is it worked in actual stop and go traffic…coming to full stops and taking off when lead vehicle resumed forward progress. Of course hands on the wheel but lane centering and all the other features worked beautifully. I’ve gotten used to that for long trips and would hope even the pure can do what a 61k car can do. The elephant in the room is the possible extra 124 miles of range the lucid affords. Actually, the only reason I have a reservation.

We just found Pilot Assit on Polestar 2. We didn’t even know it exists after 2000 miles driven. It works just like Air Highway Assist, when you want have lane change, use signal to temporary disable it to change lane just like AGT. It does stop all the way to zero on freeway when congested and accelerate back. In one instance, we were at a construction area where the lane markings was erased, the car went in between current lane to next lane to drive center of two lanes. I don’t know how Lucid Air will respond in that situation in its Highway Assist, I will experiment that area later again with AGT. But if DD doesn’t offer HA, is it a deal breaker? My son and I don’t think so. Lucid has so many attributes outbeat Polestar 2, and primarily is that remarkable range.

 

[MadMax]

I assume he's referring to ACC with Pilot Assist.

That is exactly what I mean. My mistake for not adding clarity. Complete gradual stops and smooth takeoffs. No foot on the gas or brake (Once I was confident).Again, I was pleasantly surprised it worked so well. Since it’s just my wife and I the size of the Lucid isn’t the huge draw. It’s the range that makes the difference. I live in Tampa Fl and occasionally drive up to Kentucky to see family. 2-3 charge stops sure as heck beats 6-7. And don’t quote my math here. I used ABRP a ways back to see the difference. I could stop and charge halfway at a hotel in the Pure and make the trip. Not so in the Polestar 2. Also, I never travel through the mountains (along the way) in cold weather due to black ice, etc. in winter months I fly regardless of what I am driving. No heat pump in the Pure shouldn’t impact me however I can see how that could make a difference for those in colder climes. I would miss AWD in the Polestar2 as adding the extra bucks is pushing it for my wife’s liking. And AWD gives you a warranted level of additional confidence. I’m wondering how the rears on the Pure RWD will hold up.