Electrify America is enraging EV owners

[OCDC]

Just wrapped up a 3,000 mile road trip from Orange County to Seattle and back. Looking at my records, I plugged into EA chargers 15 times along the way, plus once at a ChargePoint 50kW unit at a hotel and once at an EVGo 350kW unit (the last two were for convenience). About half of the EA chargers had some kind of issue, ranging from aborting the session before the charge limit was reached to very slow/bouncing charging. The poor performing ones were (in no particular order):

- Harris Ranch, Coalinga, CA (slow charge + bouncing, 54.3kWh in 42 minutes)
- Walmart 2947, Vancouver, WA (charger aborted after 41.8kWh, bouncing, had to switch chargers)
- Safeway 0788, Mill Valley, CA (very slow, 30.1kWh in 52 minutes)
- Safeway 761, Pacific Grove, CA (charger aborted after 14.1kWh, the session time says it was there for 23hrs 57min but it was only about 5 minutes, had to restart the session)
- Target T0300, Mission Viejo, CA (charger aborted after 34.4kWh, had to switch chargers)

The observation I have with these is a) the plugs for these trouble chargers haven't been updated with the new dark gray style (except the Mission Viejo location), and b) I pulled into the charger with <30% charge remaining. The white plugs at EA locations have empirically been far more problematic for me when I've used them. I suspect they're the original parts from the station installation and just have a lot of cycles on them. I also noticed that those older cords are sometimes pinched a bit near the handle for the connector. The pinch may restrict the coolant flow to the connector and cause it to get hot. Overall it seems the white plugs and their cords may be at the end of their service life. The dark gray connectors have been popping up at more locations, and I generally have good luck with those. I noticed in one case that the gray plug had a strain relief added to the connection, maybe in recognition of the pinching that was happening.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

The dark grey I believe is just a wrap, I am not convinced there’s anything new about these plugs or stations aside from stickers. It’s like painting flames on a Ford Pinto.

On Saturday once again I ripped 173kw off a 150kw EA, but that was after authentication error x2 on the left plug on the station, so I switched to the right plug on the identical station, and charged faster than anyone else there (the 350kw ones were nerfed to 35kw, an iX and Ioniq 5 driver both gave up and left). This was on an ABB station that was 3-4 years old with the white plugs.

 

[OCDC]

The dark grey I believe is just a wrap, I am not convinced there’s anything new about these plugs or stations aside from stickers. It’s like painting flames on a Ford Pinto.

I agree, I don't think it's a new design. I think it's just an indication that the chargers have been serviced recently. Connectors do have a finite lifetime, and replacing the charge cords may be a low-hanging service they can do to improve the reliability. The Target location near me replaced all of their white connectors about 6 months ago with the dark gray ones, and that location went from 3/4 of the chargers not working to most/all of them working. Also, some of the white ones do work fine. Statistically though, they've been more problematic for me. YMMV of course...

 

[DeaneG]

Just wrapped up a 3,000 mile road trip...
- Safeway 761, Pacific Grove, CA (charger aborted after 14.1kWh, the session time says it was there for 23hrs 57min but it was only about 5 minutes, had to restart the session) ...

We were driving our AGT around Carmel/Monterey Friday and made a stop at Pacific Grove Safeway in the afternoon. There was a gray Lucid charging there; was it you?

 

[OCDC]

We were driving our AGT around Carmel/Monterey Friday and made a stop at Pacific Grove Safeway. There was a gray Lucid charging there; was it you?

Afraid not. My stop was on July 4th. A gentleman in a Zenith Red pulled in next to me and did a splash-and-go charge for 10 minutes. I love that whole PG/Carmel/Monterey area. I start to pine for it when I'm away too long. By the way, Carmel Valley Road is a beautiful driver's road. Just don't take anyone with you who gets car sick.

 

[Drendino]

As others have mentioned, no one will be able to unplug your Lucid without first unlocking the car.

However, it could be a bit upsetting to see plugged-in fully-charged cars at public charging stations while others are waiting in line to charge. A lot of discussion around EA implementing idle fees to try to limit EV owners leaving their vehicles plugged in after charging is over.

I 100% agree. Stop at 80% and unplug immediately if there is a wait. Seeing cars charging at 95% while they shop in the mall incites "charging rage". I would be more worried about the car being keyed than someone unplugging it.

 

[Snafu]

I'm saddened to read this. My first "off the reservation" trip Philly to Seabrook, then Dartmouth, NH the only issues I faced at EA chargers were clueless folk (with Lucid range I just drove another 100 mi to the next charger). Got some of the fastest charging too...hit 322 kW in Seabrook. No pre-conditioning either. I wasn't sure I'd make it so did not want to waste electrons.

Do they still have the crappy old chargers at Seabrook? I haven't tried using that in months because I was 0 for 5 attempts in the past six months and typically end up going slightly out of my way to use the more reliable (but not necessarily faster) chargers in Kittery. I may give it another try this week. Thanks for the input.

 

[borski]

Interesting question. You can't unplug the charger unless the car is on. If it's locked and off, the charger is locked in. I didn't read the manual on that one and got really worried one night because I couldn't unplug it. But whenever we've used public chargers, we're actually in the car.

Doesn’t have to be off, just locked.

Afraid not. My stop was on July 4th. A gentleman in a Zenith Red pulled in next to me and did a splash-and-go charge for 10 minutes. I love that whole PG/Carmel/Monterey area. I start to pine for it when I'm away too long. By the way, Carmel Valley Road is a beautiful driver's road. Just don't take anyone with you who gets car sick.

Literally drove that today and yesterday on this loaner AGT on 21s. Such a fantastic drive.

 

[hmp10]

Yet another report about the drag that Electrify America is putting on the Lucid brand:

Road-Tripping in the Posh Lucid Air Sucks, but It Isn't the EV's Fault

A 2,000-mile road trip sounds like a blast. That is, until you find out that it's an EV you must drive and the fast-charging network is not reliable

www.autoevolution.com

The sooner Lucid disassociates itself from EA the better.

 

[CLTGT]

That is why I will not even consider an EV for my wife. While the EA experience is not one that Lucid should attach itself to or be proud of, the charging dynamics in general across most of the country do not lend themselves to mass EV adoption. While California probably leads the pack, can you imagine if just 50% of those people in CA traded their ICE vehicles for an EV?

 

[hydbob]

That is why I will not even consider an EV for my wife. While the EA experience is not one that Lucid should attach itself to or be proud of, the charging dynamics in general across most of the country do not lend themselves to mass EV adoption. While California probably leads the pack, can you imagine if just 50% of those people in CA traded their ICE vehicles for an EV?

Honestly, it'd probably be OK. The majority of EV owners/future owners need to look at home charging instead of EA.

 

[Halodde]

Honestly, it'd probably be OK. The majority of EV owners/future owners need to look at home charging instead of EA.

IMHO, 'free charging' is causing people to use DCFC much more than they should or otherwise would. And I'm not throwing shade. I do it occasionally myself. Someone with a proverbial bullhorn should educate the general public to the minimal cost of home charging BEFORE they buy an EV.
Or the EV manufacturers could devise an alternate incentive to buy such as a $250/year credit on your home electric bill for 3 years. Motivate people to charge at home instead of DCFC

 

[blueice89]

Yet another report about the drag that Electrify America is putting on the Lucid brand:

Road-Tripping in the Posh Lucid Air Sucks, but It Isn't the EV's Fault

A 2,000-mile road trip sounds like a blast. That is, until you find out that it's an EV you must drive and the fast-charging network is not reliable

www.autoevolution.com

The sooner Lucid disassociates itself from EA the better.

Down with EA! Long live Tesla charging, hope they can get us some chargers, am i right?

 

[blueice89]

Its a time game, EA and rest of this charging infrastructure will take time, whether it takes the full 3 years is a big question but until then just hold the EV and enjoy, may not get to take the smoothest and nicest road trips for that we still use a Tesla Model Y, since its easier IMO to just pull up to a Tesla charger and charge and go. Eventually CCS and non Tesla infrastructure will get better then the Lucid goes far. So just patience grasshoppers our time will come.

 

[joec]

IMHO, 'free charging' is causing people to use DCFC much more than they should or otherwise would. And I'm not throwing shade. I do it occasionally myself. Someone with a proverbial bullhorn should educate the general public to the minimal cost of home charging BEFORE they buy an EV.
Or the EV manufacturers could devise an alternate incentive to buy such as a $250/year credit on your home electric bill for 3 years. Motivate people to charge at home instead of DCFC

I've said it many times. If you aren't primarily charging at home, you are missing out on possibly the number 1 benefit of owning an EV. Starting every day (with the exception of road trips a few times a year) with more charge than you will need is so revelatory it makes the idea of buying an ICE car ridiculous.

You want me to what? Stop at a gas station?

I only think of my state of charge a few times per year. THAT's freedom.

This is why I'm consistently shocked at how many posts on this site are complaints about bad charging experiences. Yes, the EA situation is terrible. But I feel like a good number of us are subjecting ourselves to this on a regular basis for no good reason.

 

[CLTGT]

Honestly, it'd probably be OK. The majority of EV owners/future owners need to look at home charging instead of EA.

That was essentially my point. My Lucid is generally used locally so I do not have to rely on DCFC. Any trips we make are generally done in my wife's car as the charging network in the southeast is not robust enough for us to be an all-EV household. We make enough road trips to Seaside, FL, New Orleans, LA, Hilton Head, SC, etc that considering an EV for my wife's car is just not in the cards.

My point is not that I would not own an EV (As I obviously do), but rather the current charging situation does not give me the required confidence to be an EV-only household.

 

[Halodde]

I've said it many times. If you aren't primarily charging at home, you are missing out on possibly the number 1 benefit of owning an EV. Starting every day (with the exception of road trips a few times a year) with more charge than you will need is so revelatory it makes the idea of buying an ICE car ridiculous.

You want me to what? Stop at a gas station?

I only think of my state of charge a few times per year. THAT's freedom.

This is why I'm consistently shocked at how many posts on this site are complaints about bad charging experiences. Yes, the EA situation is terrible. But I feel like a good number of us are subjecting ourselves to this on a regular basis for no good reason.

Unfortunately, with the amount of driving I do, I actually need to charge away from home more frequently than almost anyone else. These are not road trips per se. 90% of my driving is for work and even 360 (realistically) miles of range means that I have to charge away from home at least once a week. I often will do it a little more often than once a week for convenience and sanity so I am not constantly calculating my efficiency and driving 68 MPH to guarantee I'll have enough juice to get home at night. But, your point is well taken. I charge at home as much as possible even though it frequently means charging to 100% the night before a long day.

As I'm typing that, I just started to wonder about something. They say don't charge to 100% unless necessary. They (yes, those same people) also say don't DCFC more than necessary. Does anyone actually know which one of those two evils is the lesser? Hmmm....

 

[hmp10]

My point is not that I would not own an EV (As I obviously do), but rather the current charging situation does not give me the required confidence to be an EV-only household.

I only think of my state of charge a few times per year. THAT's freedom.

This is why I'm consistently shocked at how many posts on this site are complaints about bad charging experiences.

Both of these comments are strong points.

My worry, however, is that until you have already taken the leap into EV ownership, many potential buyers worry about losing the ability to road trip easily without really factoring in how seldom they do it relative to their other driving. And many of these potential buyers who research their possible purchases encounter a growing crescendo of reviewers who grouse about the unreliability of the CCS charging situation. Even if they decide to make the leap to an EV, many choose Tesla due to its Supercharger network. Indeed, two of the most widely-watched video reviewers, Kyle Conner and Marques Brownlee, recommend only considering Tesla if you plan a lot of road tripping, although both think Lucid makes a superior product. (With Lucid's finally laying most of its software woes to rest, Conner now says he might consider replacing his Model S Plaid with an Air GTP as long as he will not be dependent on it for road trips.)

In the innumerable conversations over the past eight years I've had with friends and strangers (who approach me in all kinds of places) about the EVs I drive, most have asked about range and trip charging. I can't recall a single one ever asking me how good it feels to avoid gas stations for 95% of the driving I -- and probably they -- do.

Also, many of the drivers who live in urban areas that would benefit most from dispensing with ICE transport do not have access to home charging, so public charging infrastructure is critical even for their local driving. My brother, who is an EV addict and loves our Air, is still sticking with Tesla because he lives in a condo without home charging facilities and is reliant on public chargers for all his driving. My own experience with CCS issues does nothing to encourage him to switch to a CCS-based brand in the current environment.

 

[hmp10]

Unfortunately, with the amount of driving I do, I actually need to charge away from home more frequently than almost anyone else. These are not road trips per se. 90% of my driving is for work and even 360 (realistically) miles of range means that I have to charge away from home at least once a week. I often will do it a little more often than once a week for convenience and sanity so I am not constantly calculating my efficiency and driving 68 MPH to guarantee I'll have enough juice to get home at night. But, your point is well taken. I charge at home as much as possible even though it frequently means charging to 100% the night before a long day.

As I'm typing that, I just started to wonder about something. They say don't charge to 100% unless necessary. They (yes, those same people) also say don't DCFC more than necessary. Does anyone actually know which one of those two evils is the lesser? Hmmm....

Hard to say. Here's what I do know:

A lot of the risk of charging to 100% comes from dendrite formation at higher states of charge. However, that formation is also a function of how long the battery stays at full charge. So beginning a drive shortly after the battery reaches full charge is less taxing than charging to 100% and letting the car sit at full charge for prolonged periods.

While DCFC is more taxing on battery cells, a lot of that stress can be relieved by sophisticated battery management systems that tightly control cell temperature and the charging rate as a function of state of charge (which is what charging curves are all about). Lucid certainly has a good battery management system that, if its charging curve is any indication, is very conservative in taking care of the battery pack. All energy goes into the battery as DC current via the inverter even with Level 2 charging off an AC plug. So it's really the "FC" part of DCFC that poses the risk.

An analysis was done several years ago of the Tesla Model S's in the Amsterdam Airport Taxi fleet. Those cars were in constant use and subjected to daily DCFC. As they approached 200,000 miles of use, their batteries were still accepting more than 80% of their original charge capacity -- and those cars were eons ago in terms of what automakers have learned since about battery management and charge curves.

 

[Yossarian]

I imagine most EV owners have seen the San Fran Bay Area study of EV charging stations. It noted that 23% were inop at any one time.
I live(in the winter) in Martin County, Fl where there are only 2 EA stations within 30 miles, but they did work on the visits. There are more
EA chargers further south at Boynton Beach and Ft. Lauderdale Walmarts that worked on my rare trips down south.
A funny story is that I was at Cody, Wy during this July 4th week and at the hotel was a Tesla charging every night on a 110v outside outlet.
At my summer residence in the Smokey Mts west of Boone, NC there are NO chargers anywhere, so the Lucid stays in Florida. Back down
in Florida, I almost exclusively use my home GRIZZL E charger.