Ordering and Delivery: Lucid Air Touring

[obelix]

Would the credit be still be available in 2023 for people who don't meet the income threshold ($150K single, $300K married)? I'm struggling to get this clarified if confirmed reservations (back in Aug 2022) with delivery in 2023, or later, locks the credit forever.

I understand we are all waiting for IRS guidance, hopefully early November. But, my understanding is that starting 2023 income thresholds applies so even if credit is available for confirmed order in 2022. But many of us will become ineligible for FY2023 tax(filing in 2024) based on income test.

There is no debate on car delivered in 2022 whether one has confirmed reservation or not, it will be eligible for credit.

I've Touring as well as Pure reservations from Sept/Oct 2020. I've been invited to confirm Touring order but holding off at the moment. I didn't confirm the reservation for Touring when I was asked back in Aug 2022, I only did for Pure.

I'd not meet income test qualifier for 2023 (based on current estimates) so I may want to sleep on Touring confirmation, for now , to see first batch of delivery. I may choose Pure over Touring if they start sometime Q1 23.

 

[Paul]

Would the credit be still be available in 2023 for people who don't meet the income threshold ($150K single, $300K married)? I'm struggling to get this clarified if confirmed reservations (back in Aug 2022) with delivery in 2023, or later, locks the credit forever.

I understand we are all waiting for IRS guidance, hopefully early November. But, my understanding is that starting 2023 income thresholds applies so even if credit is available for confirmed order in 2022. But many of us will become ineligible for FY2023 tax(filing in 2024) based on income test.

There is no debate on car delivered in 2022 whether one has confirmed reservation or not, it will be eligible for credit.

I've Touring as well as Pure reservations from Sept/Oct 2020. I've been invited to confirm Touring order but holding off at the moment. I didn't confirm the reservation for Touring when I was asked back in Aug 2022, I only did for Pure.

I'd not meet income test qualifier for 2023 (based on current estimates) so I may want to sleep on Touring confirmation, for now , to see first batch of delivery. I may choose Pure over Touring if they start sometime Q1 23.

For 2023, there is no tax credit for sedans priced over $55,00-.

 

[obelix]

For 2023, there is no tax credit for sedans priced over $55,00-.

Understood. May be I didn't phrase it correctly.

Assuming reservations confirmed in Aug 2022 is a valid contract that allows us to get credit, will one be subject to income test if car is delivered in 2023?

Or, general understanding is that people will take the credit as part of 2022 taxes even if car is not delivered or delivered before tax filing for FY2022 ?

 

[changinator]

Would the credit be still be available in 2023 for people who don't meet the income threshold ($150K single, $300K married)? I'm struggling to get this clarified if confirmed reservations (back in Aug 2022) with delivery in 2023, or later, locks the credit forever.

I understand we are all waiting for IRS guidance, hopefully early November. But, my understanding is that starting 2023 income thresholds applies so even if credit is available for confirmed order in 2022. But many of us will become ineligible for FY2023 tax(filing in 2024) based on income test.

There is no debate on car delivered in 2022 whether one has confirmed reservation or not, it will be eligible for credit.

I've Touring as well as Pure reservations from Sept/Oct 2020. I've been invited to confirm Touring order but holding off at the moment. I didn't confirm the reservation for Touring when I was asked back in Aug 2022, I only did for Pure.

I'd not meet income test qualifier for 2023 (based on current estimates) so I may want to sleep on Touring confirmation, for now , to see first batch of delivery. I may choose Pure over Touring if they start sometime Q1 23.

If our prior to August 16, 2022 reservation turned nonrefundable confirmed order qualifies as a "written binding contract" in the eyes of the IRS, then per the Transition Rule of the IRA, it qualifies for the EV tax credit and all the rules and stipulations of the old incentive, none of the new IRA EV tax rules and stipulations apply to our orders. This means no income cap, no vehicle msrp cap, no battery production and material source requirements, etc.

 

[Paul]

Understood. May be I didn't phrase it correctly.

Assuming reservations confirmed in Aug 2022 is a valid contract that allows us to get credit, will one be subject to income test if car is delivered in 2023?

Or, general understanding is that people will take the credit as part of 2022 taxes even if car is not delivered or delivered before tax filing for FY2022 ?

IRS issued A Request for Comments on various aspects of rule making for the Inflation Reduction Act including what constitutes a binding contract for purposes of the transition exception. If IRS determines that a $1,000 non refundable deposit constitutes a binging contract then a car put in service in 2023 will be treated as having been put in service in August 2022 and the 2022 rules will apply including no income cap. Until IRS publishes the transition rule, no one knows.

 

[changinator]

This is probably the oldest debate on this forum. Several threads about it. Never any definitive answer.

Bottom line, people will do what they will, accountants will advise what they will. It's all dependent on what the IRS says in the end.

But the fact that Lucid is now telling folks they can have their deposits back if they want is not a good sign. Their tax specialists evidently think differently now than they did back in August.

Lucid is not voluntarily telling folks that their non-refundable orders can be refunded (special circumstances aside). There has been no change since August as there has been no additional details from IRS/Treasury.

 

[hydbob]

Let's try and steer this back to the tracker. We've already had 100s of posts about the IRS tax thing in separate threads.

 

[obelix]

IRS issued A Request for Comments on various aspects of rule making for the Inflation Reduction Act including what constitutes a binding contract for purposes of the transition exception. If IRS determines that a $1,000 non refundable deposit constitutes a binging contract then a car put in service in 2023 will be treated as having been put in service in August 2022 and the 2022 rules will apply including no income cap. Until IRS publishes the transition rule, no one knows.

Thanks Paul and changinator. That's what I needed clarification on.

I'll hold off confirming my Touring order yet. Will see how it pans out in next few months.

 

[Jefferoo]

Personally, I’ve already given up on the $7500 refund. Would love to be wrong but (as others have said) no one knows, we will have to wait and see, and it isn’t really the discussion purpose of this thread anyway.

I completely understand and share everyone’s frustration over the Mojave thing. Lucid must have a good reason and I appreciate them being up front with us about their process so that we know what to expect. TBH, I’m sure that the fear of people getting angry and blowing up is the reason that the Lucid Execs have been so closed mouth and silent on everything. People keep posting that they need to be honest with their customers and just tell the truth about their process and situation but I can see why they might be reluctant to do so.

I’m just happy that they are moving forward since, frankly, I half expected them to make and deliver 1 Touring on December 31st just to say they did it and then leave all the rest of us waiting until next summer. Am I happy having to wait a few more months? No, not really, but I have other cars and can get by until then and it sure isn’t enough for me to cancel the car. I respect that others have waited longer than I have and that their situations are different but I’m still excited that things are moving forward.

 

[Volund]

Heard back from my SA, he did confirm:

"It looks like Highway Assist is going to be a part of DreamDrive Pro only. The reason we are seeing it on cars now is because they are all equipped with DreamDrive Pro (Grand Touring Editions), and the Highway Assist feature is rolling out as the first part of the full software release. Sorry for the delay; I was waiting to hear back from our software team for final clarification."

 

[Volund]

Please update my reservation,
finalized it today after learning the truth about Highway Assist and DreamDrive Pro

Confirmation: Oct 29 2022
Changes to my order (bolded and italicized for your convenience)
Color exterior: Zenith Red
interior: Tahoe
Wheels: 19" All Season Wheels
Roof: Glass Canopy
Surreal Sound: Yes
Dream Drive Pro: Yes

 

[yiling1990]

Reservation Date: Dec. 26 2020
Confirmation Date: Oct. 27 2022
Exterior: Quantum Grey
Interior: Santa Cruz
Options: Platinum, Glass Canopy, DreamDrive Pro, Surreal Sound Pro, 19" Wheels

 

[Babyrocko1908]

This is probably the oldest debate on this forum. Several threads about it. Never any definitive answer.

Bottom line, people will do what they will, accountants will advise what they will. It's all dependent on what the IRS says in the end.

But the fact that Lucid is now telling folks they can have their deposits back if they want is not a good sign. Their tax specialists evidently think differently now than they did back in August.

I haven't heard a word officially from Lucid. Just what's been reported from sales reps. Has anyone heard anything from Rivian?

 

[joec]

I haven't heard a word officially from Lucid. Just what's been reported from sales reps. Has anyone heard anything from Rivian?

I think @hydbob is right. There are literally dozens of threads about this already. Let's not clog up the Touring Tracker with yet another discussion of tax stuff. I accept full responsibility for bringing it up in the first place.

Here's one of the dozens. Let's post this sort of thing there instead: 7500 EV tax credit update with new bill

 

[Babyrocko1908]

Understood. May be I didn't phrase it correctly.

Assuming reservations confirmed in Aug 2022 is a valid contract that allows us to get credit, will one be subject to income test if car is delivered in 2023?

Or, general understanding is that people will take the credit as part of 2022 taxes even if car is not delivered or delivered before tax filing for FY2022 ?

I'll be taking the credit based on the language on the IRS' website. The 5% down payment threshold applies to damages. Where even if only 5% was put down, a customer's damages for breach ARE NOT limited to 5%.

The relevant section that applies to us is the section before this one -- the transition rule for vehicles purchased prior to August 16, 2022.

 

[Babyrocko1908]

I think @hydbob is right. There are literally dozens of threads about this already. Let's not clog up the Touring Tracker with yet another discussion of tax stuff. I accept full responsibility for bringing it up in the first place.

Here's one of the dozens. Let's post this sort of thing there instead: 7500 EV tax credit update with new bill

Okay. No more posts from me regarding this.

 

[shredderc]

Reservation: 1/2020
Order confirmation: 10/27/2022
Exterior: Infinite black
Interior: Santa Cruz
Options: 20" Aero lites, glass roof, dream drive amateur, surreal pro

P.S. - I live in Chicago. Any suggestions to avoid driving away in January with 20" summer tires?

 

[joec]

Reservation: 1/2020
Order confirmation: 10/27/2022
Exterior: Infinite black
Interior: Santa Cruz
Options: 20" Aero lites, glass roof, dream drive amateur, surreal pro

P.S. - I live in Chicago. Any suggestions to avoid driving away in January with 20" summer tires?

If you want to stick with the 20s, there are no good options right now. You could get a set of 19" wheels and put snow tires, or at least all-seasons, on them. Then swap them out for the 20s when the weather improves.

 

[Mr_rhythm]

Heard back from my SA, he did confirm:

"It looks like Highway Assist is going to be a part of DreamDrive Pro only. The reason we are seeing it on cars now is because they are all equipped with DreamDrive Pro (Grand Touring Editions), and the Highway Assist feature is rolling out as the first part of the full software release. Sorry for the delay; I was waiting to hear back from our software team for final clarification."

That goes against the release notes that said highway assist was dreamdrive and highway pilot was dreamdrive pro. This had been asked/confirmed in other threads so not sure one SA can change my mind. But dang if it’s not important information.

 

[Volund]

That goes against the release notes that said highway assist was dreamdrive and highway pilot was dreamdrive pro. This had been asked/confirmed in other threads so not sure one SA can change my mind. But dang if it’s not important information.

Basically here's what he's saying:
"Lucid has only created Dream Drive pro cars until now (AGT and Dream Edition)
It wasn't until they got to models without Dream Drive Pro that they realized that the camera and sensor suite that they need for Highway Assist isn't available in Dream Drive"
That's what I understood from his message. But I don't know, it sounds a little weird too because if Dream Drive is working, you'd know exactly what cameras and sensors that you'd need for it to behave correctly. You shouldn't need to wait until implementation to find out that it won't work lol