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Countdown to Year End

hmp10

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10 days left for Lucid to meet its promise to deliver all Dream Editions this year.

Does anyone know how many have been delivered? Who's still waiting for a delivery date?
 

Paladin732

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Still waiting on mine. I’ve just gotten confirmation of it by year end yesterday, however I’m not sure how that will happen given the stage it’s supposedly in.
 

Sandvinsd

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I am quite surprised they have not contacted you all with a delivery date. They promised ALL Dream editions would be delivered by the end of the year. Be proactive, Lucid, and communicate with your customers.
 

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They actually said they would deliver 577 vehicles by year end with the 520 Dream Editions coming first. I am still waiting for my Dream Edition Performance, Eureka Gold, 21" wheels!! Although they have told me repeatedly it would happen this year, I still don't even have a VIN. I'm hopeful but must admit I'm also skeptical.
 

hmp10

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Got my VIN on November 19. Paid for the car December 11. Still no delivery date . . . and as of the end of last week when I asked, not even a confirmation that the car was off the assembly line.
 

SaratogaLefty

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Here is an email I received on 12/15/21. It is a form letter that was sent out by various persons at Lucid to Dream Edition confirmed orders. I have removed the sender's name and also the name of my original Delivery Advisor. I know others received the exact same email word for word except for the Delivery Advisor's names. I already provided all the requested information in October but submitted it all again just in case that might make a difference. Here is the message:

"My name is ____________ and I am Delivery Advisor based at HQ tasked with helping ________, who is included in this message, prepare you for ownership of your Eureka Gold Performance Lucid Air Dream Edition.

We remain committed to delivering your vehicle by the end of the year and we plan for you to take receipt of the vehicle pickup at Millbrae. I will soon update you with your VIN, but in the meantime, I’d like to begin confirming and collecting initial information to further progress your order."
 

hmp10

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i just talked to my Delivery Advisor. She still has no indication that my car is in queue for delivery or even through inspection. I asked her what Lucid is going to do if customers lose the tax credit because a Dream doesn't get delivered by year end, and she dodged it. She first said they intend to get all the cars delivered by year end. I told her that was not going to happen, and I wanted to know what Lucid's position was on the loss of the tax credit. She said that Lucid had no position as there was as of yet no new tax law. She reiterated that the delivery team was working hard to get everything delivered. I retorted that, with Christmas this week, my car needing to be transported across the country then inspected and prepped at this end, there was little chance for delivery by the end of next week, and I still wanted to know what Lucid's position would be if the tax credit were lost as a result. She again said "the intention" is to get all the cars delivered.
 

SaratogaLefty

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I know you are anxious to get your car as I am also waiting. I did get my VIN today and again was assured delivery would happen before year end. I am also skeptical but I don't think it does any good to be aggressive with the Delivery Advisors. I don't think they are in a position to do anything other than repeat the party line.
 

hmp10

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There’s more involved here. I reserved more than three years ago and was one of the earliest to confirm in September. I was told that would put me near the front of the delivery schedule. When I switched to Zenith Red, which had just become available, I specifically asked if it would affect my place in queue and was told it would not. In fact, it moved me to the back of the queue. If that causes me to lose the tax credit, Lucid’s misleading me about the effect of color choice turns the red into a $7,500 choice about which I was deprived key information in making the choice. I don’t like being fed a line when I ask a legitimate question.
 

SaratogaLefty

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There’s more involved here. I reserved more than three years ago and was one of the earliest to confirm in September. I was told that would put me near the front of the delivery schedule. When I switched to Zenith Red, which had just become available, I specifically asked if it would affect my place in queue and was told it would not. In fact, it moved me to the back of the queue. If that causes me to lose the tax credit, Lucid’s misleading me about the effect of color choice turns the red into a $7,500 choice about which I was deprived key information in making the choice. I don’t like being fed a line when I ask a legitimate question.

I totally agree you have a very legitimate claim. And I believe you have fully documented it and most likely either 1) you will get your car this year or 2) assuming the tax credit is eliminated in 2022 and the elimination is made retroactive to 1/1/22 then I would think Lucid will refund the $7500 to all Dream Edition owners who they failed to deliver cars to in 2021. I also should mention that the current government website listing all cars eligible for the rebate doesn't currently show Lucid at all. And this site is regularly updated. I do hope you (and I) receive our cars before year end.
 

hmp10

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I totally agree you have a very legitimate claim.

I'll admit I got a little testy today with my DA. There's a little more to the story, and since you're a bit newer to the forum, I'll retell it (trusting the old hands will just skip reading it again).

A friend, also in Florida, reserved his Dream 15 months after I did and confirmed his order several days after I did. He ordered a configuration identical to mine, including the Infinite Black on which I had earlier decided. He got his car a month ago.

However, on my fourth visit to the Miami Design Studio I was given a heads up that Lucid might add Zenith Red to the color choices. I was on the fence about switching from black, but some friends who were with me really liked the red (based on the color blocks, as the demo car was Quantum Gray), and lobbied hard for me to get red if it became available. I had met Zak Edson, Lucid's head of Retail Operations at the Miami opening some months earlier, and had asked him why Dream buyers had fewer color selections than buyers of other trims. He explained that the time, complexity, and cost of switching colors on a paint line would make the early production logistics of the Dream Edition too complicated for the narrow production window planned for the limited Dream Edition run. Consequently, they were limiting color choices. So, when Zenith Red was added at the last minute, I was suspicious that it might have some effect on place in production queue.

Having lived through multiple product delays (when I reserved in 2018 Lucid was saying production would start late in 2019), I was suspicious that Lucid might not get all the Dreams out the door by year end, particularly as supply logistics were breaking down across industries worldwide. That, coupled with what Edson had said about the complications of adding colors, is why I focused explicitly on the effect of color choice when I finalized my configuration with the DA. However, once assured that place in production queue was based solely on the date and time of confirming the order with my DA and that switching to red would not change my place in production queue, i went with red.

I might have chosen red, anyway, and taken the risk of losing the tax credit with my eyes open. However, I do not like making decisions in the absence of information that is deliberately withheld (if not by my DA, then by the production team who did not apprise the DA's of the effect of color choice on production). If the DA did not know the answer to my question, the right move would have been to say, "I'm not sure" or "let me check and get back to you". What I got, instead, was an unqualified assurance that color had no effect on production timing.
 

WildRide47

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I'll admit I got a little testy today with my DA. There's a little more to the story, and since you're a bit newer to the forum, I'll retell it (trusting the old hands will just skip reading it again).

A friend, also in Florida, reserved his Dream 15 months after I did and confirmed his order several days after I did. He ordered a configuration identical to mine, including the Infinite Black on which I had earlier decided. He got his car a month ago.

However, on my fourth visit to the Miami Design Studio I was given a heads up that Lucid might add Zenith Red to the color choices. I was on the fence about switching from black, but some friends who were with me really liked the red (based on the color blocks, as the demo car was Quantum Gray), and lobbied hard for me to get red if it became available. I had met Zak Edson, Lucid's head of Retail Operations at the Miami opening some months earlier, and had asked him why Dream buyers had fewer color selections than buyers of other trims. He explained that the time, complexity, and cost of switching colors on a paint line would make the early production logistics of the Dream Edition too complicated for the narrow production window planned for the limited Dream Edition run. Consequently, they were limiting color choices. So, when Zenith Red was added at the last minute, I was suspicious that it might have some effect on place in production queue.

Having lived through multiple product delays (when I reserved in 2018 Lucid was saying production would start late in 2019), I was suspicious that Lucid might not get all the Dreams out the door by year end, particularly as supply logistics were breaking down across industries worldwide. That, coupled with what Edson had said about the complications of adding colors, is why I focused explicitly on the effect of color choice when I finalized my configuration with the DA. However, once assured that place in production queue was based solely on the date and time of confirming the order with my DA and that switching to red would not change my place in production queue, i went with red.

I might have chosen red, anyway, and taken the risk of losing the tax credit with my eyes open. However, I do not like making decisions in the absence of information that is deliberately withheld (if not by my DA, then by the production team who did not apprise the DA's of the effect of color choice on production). If the DA did not know the answer to my question, the right move would have been to say, "I'm not sure" or "let me check and get back to you". What I got, instead, was an unqualified assurance that color had no effect on production timing.


If you are in the top tax bracket, isn't the $7,500 tax credit equal to around $15,000 of earned income.(assuming state and federal taxes equal 50%) So even if Lucid refunds the $7,500 to you (if you miss the tax credit deadline), isn't that still not enough as it doesn't equal around $15,000. Appreciate any feedback from any accountant types here if I am figuring this right or wrong.
 

hmp10

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If you are in the top tax bracket, isn't the $7,500 tax credit equal to around $15,000 of earned income.(assuming state and federal taxes equal 50%) So even if Lucid refunds the $7,500 to you (if you miss the tax credit deadline), isn't that still not enough as it doesn't equal around $15,000. Appreciate any feedback from any accountant types here if I am figuring this right or wrong.

The top tax bracket for earned income is currently ~37%. However, this is less about the money with me. It's about Lucid's opaqueness surrounding ordering and delivery questions and how the company will deal with any consequences to the customer. In the past year, I've bought a Tesla Plaid, friends have bought a VW ID.4 and a Mustang Mach-E, and I've bought several limited edition ICE cars that had months/years long waiting periods. But I've never encountered quite this level of opaqueness vis-a-vis customers who've put down hefty deposits and demonstrated commitment to the purchase.

GM's recent saga with the Bolt battery fiasco is a case in point. From the outset, GM knew it was going to have somehow to make things right in the customers' eyes. Instead, they delayed and obfuscated while they fought a liability battle with LG Chem, leaving customer worries on the sidelines for an untenable period. By the time they faced what was the obvious outcome from the outset, they had managed to sour what had been a loyal customer base. Just watch the "Transport Evolved" videos to see how angry a loyal, multiple-Bolt-buying customer became, not over the battery fiasco, but over GM's shoddy handling of customer concerns.
 

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BBB is DOA at this point, certainly for this year. At the very worst, if revived, and if Manchin is threatened at gun point and submits to voting for the bill, it wouldn’t be until later in 2022.

At that point it would be hard to believe the new law would be made retroactive to 1/1 after buyers bought EVs with the understanding that the law in effect at that time of delivery allowed for a $7,500 tax credit. That would be quite sleazy for even the sleazier among us, our politicians.
 

WildRide47

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BBB is DOA at this point, certainly for this year. At the very worst, if revived, and if Manchin is threatened at gun point and submits to voting for the bill, it wouldn’t be until later in 2022.

At that point it would be hard to believe the new law would be made retroactive to 1/1 after buyers bought EVs with the understanding that the law in effect at that time of delivery allowed for a $7,500 tax credit. That would be quite sleazy for even the sleazier among us, our politicians.

My point is if pieces of the BBB bill are voted on separately in the future(now that BBB is dead) they may still include the restrictions on the tax credits. If HMP10 does not receive his Lucid DE by Dec 31st, he may still lose the tax credit if his car arrives in Jan. In addition, even though the top federal tax bracket is currently around 37%, many states have state income tax. Here in Oregon it is 10%. Plus there is also a 2.5% surplus tax on income over 200K that Obama put in to fund Obamacare. And higher income people also pay higher premiums for Medicare, so adding all that up, yes the total can equal 50% and possibly higher, depending on the state you reside in and your income level
 

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My point is if pieces of the BBB bill are voted on separately in the future(now that BBB is dead) they may still include the restrictions on the tax credits. If HMP10 does not receive his Lucid DE by Dec 31st, he may still lose the tax credit if his car arrives in Jan. In addition, even though the top federal tax bracket is currently around 37%, many states have state income tax. Here in Oregon it is 10%. Plus there is also a 2.5% surplus tax on income over 200K that Obama put in to fund Obamacare. And higher income people also pay higher premiums for Medicare, so adding all that up, yes the total can equal 50% and possibly higher, depending on the state you reside in and your income level
Right, but even if they separate out that part of the bill, it likely won't be enacted until later in 2022, by the end of the first quarter of 22 if they're lucky (just guessing). Let me put it this way, it's hard to imagine that Lucid will delay the delivery of those cars, promised by the end of 2021, to a date later than the passage of that aspect of the bill. If that occurs, then Lucid is really playing games with their books. That would be despicable.
 

borski

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If you are in the top tax bracket, isn't the $7,500 tax credit equal to around $15,000 of earned income.(assuming state and federal taxes equal 50%) So even if Lucid refunds the $7,500 to you (if you miss the tax credit deadline), isn't that still not enough as it doesn't equal around $15,000. Appreciate any feedback from any accountant types here if I am figuring this right or wrong.

Not an accountant or tax attorney, but the tax credit isn’t a deduction - it’s a credit. That means it gets directly credited toward whatever tax liability you otherwise have. This also means if you have low tax liability you wouldn’t get much of the credit (though you may be able to carry it forward, possibly, I’m not sure).

Because of this, Lucid would be refunding you tax you otherwise paid (and would have not paid) directly instead of the credit. So it would be 1 for 1, per my understanding.
 

hmp10

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Retroactive tax increases have been upheld by the Supreme Court, and they are quite common, going back to the inception of the federal income tax in 1913. In 1993, for example, a tax increase passed in August was made retroactive to the start of the year. The only certainty of getting the $7500 tax credit for a Lucid is to put the car in service (i. e., get license plates on it) by year end 2021.

Oddly enough, not all cars eligible for the current tax credit are on the IRS list of eligible vehicles. As long as the manufacturer certifies the car's eligibility to the IRS, the IRS allows taxpayers to rely on manufacturers' statements in writing or on their websites that the vehicle is eligible for a credit. So the absence of Lucid from the current IRS list does not mean the credit is not currently available to those whose cars are in service.
 

Lucken

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Retroactive tax increases have been upheld by the Supreme Court, and they are quite common, going back to the inception of the federal income tax in 1913. In 1993, for example, a tax increase passed in August was made retroactive to the start of the year. The only certainty of getting the $7500 tax credit for a Lucid is to put the car in service (i. e., get license plates on it) by year end 2021.

Oddly enough, not all cars eligible for the current tax credit are on the IRS list of eligible vehicles. As long as the manufacturer certifies the car's eligibility to the IRS, the IRS allows taxpayers to rely on manufacturers' statements in writing or on their websites that the vehicle is eligible for a credit. So the absence of Lucid from the current IRS list does not mean the credit is not currently available to those whose cars are in service.
Yes, but this bill is not a tax increase. I do agree that the only certainty is to place the car in service in 2021, but I’d still be very surprised to see this part of the bill (if it passes) to be made retroactive to 1/1.

With that said, even if I lose the credit, it won’t deter me from buying either EV I’m considering.
 

hmp10

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I don't think BBB is dead yet. Manchin was retaliating with the Fox interview for a clumsy political swipe taken at him by Biden's staff, but word is Manchin and Biden are both making moves to patch it up. And the United Mine Workers, who are key long-time supporters of Manchin in West Virginia, are now putting pressure on Manchin to find a solution with Biden because they like the black lung funding and the worker retraining and mine redeployment provisions of BBB.
 
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