Coolant Leak and Other Issues (DE)

[OldAg]

As annoyed as I am with the car right now, I can't fault Lucid service. They called me yesterday to say that it will be at least a couple more days before they sort things out with the battery, and they asked again if they could send me a loaner. I had refused one initially, as we have other cars, so I refused again. Even though it would mean sending a loaner across the state, they still pressed the offer, saying how much they hated that I was having this trouble with the car, and they'd like to keep a Lucid available to me at all times.

Finally, I told them to wait a couple of days to assess the situation and then we could discuss a loaner -- but only if they were sending an empty truck to Naples to pick up another car. If so, then they could put a loaner on that truck. But, as a Lucid stockholder, I really don't want to see them incurring unnecessary service expenses.

One the other hand, driving the Lucid is such a superior experience to driving our other cars that I really do miss it . . . .

@hmp10 . As a stockholder also I can appreciate your concern and support for Lucid in trying to minimize costs. But, you as an individual will not make or break Lucid. You have endured more problems and kept a mostly positive attitude about them than anyone should have to endure. Get the loaner, assuming it’s a GT, it will be a good exercise to see if it has improved from the early Dream Edition cars. Drive the wheels off of it. I will bet Lucid will be happier if you do. Also, eliminates the time issue to repair your car, who knows, they might replace everything just to make sure it’s right while you are still enjoying the great driving aspects of a Lucid.

 

[DBV]

I would be requesting a new car or buyback, which is unfortunate. Not sure how you can trust driving that DE again, at least I think it would be hard too. Too many issues.

 

[joec]

I would be requesting a new car or buyback, which is unfortunate. Not sure how you can trust driving that DE again, at least I think it would be hard too. Too many issues.

Honestly, just about everything will be brand new once this battery pack swap happens, anyway.

 

[MoniputerLM]

@hmp10 . As a stockholder also I can appreciate your concern and support for Lucid in trying to minimize costs. But, you as an individual will not make or break Lucid. You have endured more problems and kept a mostly positive attitude about them than anyone should have to endure. Get the loaner, assuming it’s a GT, it will be a good exercise to see if it has improved from the early Dream Edition cars. Drive the wheels off of it. I will bet Lucid will be happier if you do. Also, eliminates the time issue to repair your car, who knows, they might replace everything just to make sure it’s right while you are still enjoying the great driving aspects of a Lucid.

I had a GT loaner for two days while my DE was being worked on. The GT power train did seem a little smoother but other than that, not much different.

 

[hmp10]

i know the DE battery packs are different, but if lucid were to offer you a more "modern day/refined" battery pack from it's current assembly line, would you take it? would that even be possible, from a customer service and engineering compatibility perspective?

and a more general lucid battery pack question: there are voltage differences between the different air trims right? does that come from software limitations, or actual battery pack differences?

Actually, the Dream battery pack is still in production. It's used in the GT Performance and will be used in the Sapphire, and my guess is that at least some of the Gravity versions will use it.

Not at all. The Dream pack is a completely different battery chemistry.

Yes. In fact, the Dream pack does not have an upper-end buffer, as the Samsung batteries were specifically formulated to be more resistant to damage from fast charging and full charging. This absence of a buffer probably accounts for some of the capacity difference between the 118-kWh Dream pack with Samsung batteries and the 112-kWh GT pack with LG Chem batteries. (Both packs contain 6,600 cells.)

 

[Drendino]

@hmp10 . As a stockholder also I can appreciate your concern and support for Lucid in trying to minimize costs. But, you as an individual will not make or break Lucid. You have endured more problems and kept a mostly positive attitude about them than anyone should have to endure. Get the loaner, assuming it’s a GT, it will be a good exercise to see if it has improved from the early Dream Edition cars. Drive the wheels off of it. I will bet Lucid will be happier if you do. Also, eliminates the time issue to repair your car, who knows, they might replace everything just to make sure it’s right while you are still enjoying the great driving aspects of a Lucid.

This is very well said. Hmp10 is a best of class human.

 

[borski]

i know the DE battery packs are different, but if lucid were to offer you a more "modern day/refined" battery pack from it's current assembly line, would you take it? would that even be possible, from a customer service and engineering compatibility perspective

This is exactly what’s happening. There have been many revisions of the pack and the enclosure itself, to improve various structural qualities, improve connections, and so on.

But the *battery cells themselves* are from a different manufacturer and use a different chemistry from the other packs; that’s what is distinct between the DE and lower trim vehicles.

 

[xponents]

This is exactly what’s happening. There have been many revisions of the pack and the enclosure itself, to improve various structural qualities, improve connections, and so on.

But the *battery cells themselves* are from a different manufacturer and use a different chemistry from the other packs; that’s what is distinct between the DE and lower trim vehicles.

Arent they both 118 samsung batteries?(gt-p and dream) Or is the gt-p lg chem, but still 118 kwh?

 

[hmp10]

Arent they both 118 samsung batteries?(gt-p and dream) Or is the gt-p lg chem, but still 118 kwh?

Lucid stays relatively quiet about the cells in the packs. Here's what can be pieced together from several years of press releases and tidbits from various interviews with Lucid engineers:

Lucid spoke first about its battery supplier when it announced that it had reached an agreement with Samsung to provide Air batteries resulting from an engineering collaboration between Lucid and Samsung to develop a proprietary cell that was tolerant of fast charging. In an interview several years later, a Lucid engineer mentioned that the Samsung batteries did not require the upper-end buffer that most auto manufacturers use to protect the batteries from damage at full charge (resulting primarily from dendrite formation). This was the announcement in place at the time Lucid announced that the Air Dream Edition would have a 118-kWh pack (down from the 130-kWh pack that been suggested when the Air prototype was first revealed).

A couple of years after the Samsung announcement, Lucid announced that it had reached an agreement with LG Chem to provide batteries for the main production run of Airs. Unlike the prior Samsung announcement which specifically mentioned a proprietary chemistry to tolerate fast charging, this announcement said that LG Chem's batteries were well suited to the design characteristics of the Air, suggesting that the batteries were among LG Chem's standard production batteries rather than specifically engineered for Lucid. It was on the heels of this announcement that Lucid revealed the Grand Touring would have a 112-kWh battery pack.

As both packs have 6,600 cells and the Lucid engineer only mentioned the Samsung batteries as not requiring an upper-end buffer, it would seem that the absence of that buffer with the Samsung batteries might account for the 6-kWh difference in the rating of the two packs. If that's correct, it would suggest that all the 118-kWh packs use Samsung batteries.

Lucid is still sourcing batteries from both Samsung and LG Chem. But really interesting things are afoot with Samsung and Lucid.

It appears that Samsung has a 4680 form factor battery (shades of Tesla) in the works that might be of interest to Lucid:

Samsung and LG meeting with Lucid on cylindrical battery and dual-stack OLED display for new EV models

Lucid may have new EV models in its pipeline as it is gearing up to order new dual-stack OLED display size from LG. Samsung's Chairman is also meeting with Lucid on the sidelines of a South Korea-US business meeting to discuss cylindrical battery supply for its electric vehicles.

www.notebookcheck.net

And Samsung and Lucid formed a joint battery venture in 2022, with Samsung soon thereafter announcing a $1B deal to supply batteries for the Lucid Gravity:

Lucid Motors and Samsung: A Match Made in EV Heaven!https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d426f3_b2c4c9b5c8734187a21cfa088275fe61~mv2.png

IntroductionPicture this: a young, innovative electric vehicle (EV) company joining forces with a tech giant known for its cutting-edge electronics and battery expertise. Sounds like a match made in EV heaven, right? Well, buckle up, Lucid Motors enthusiasts, because this dream partnership has...

www.electricvehicleshq.com

 

[Dhimiter]

Yeah I had one as a rental in LA. It’s a mixed bag but I liked the car overall. The UI is fantastic, just your typical Volvo simplicity that works, and Google maps for navigation built-in with charging also is solid. The downside is the interior is pretty cramped, there’s a huge gear tunnel which is totally unnecessary, there’s only one cup holder unless you flip the armrest open backwards, and the suspension felt kind of clunky to me although WAY better than the Tesla Model 3. It’s a good around-town EV, but not a great road trip car as I felt rather beat up after a drive from LA to Joshua Tree and back. It gets better than EPA range, like I think it’s rated for 260 but you can get more like 280-90 out of it. One thing I noticed about it though is the power delivery is limited based on state of charge, so if you floor it when you’re at 30% it’s very underwhelming, unlike the Lucid where you get all the HP regardless of SOC.

Maybe I’ll give it a try through hertz one of these days. Not looking to replace the Lucid..just curious.

 

[xponents]

Lucid stays relatively quiet about the cells in the packs. Here's what can be pieced together from several years of press releases and tidbits from various interviews with Lucid engineers:

Lucid spoke first about its battery supplier when it announced that it had reached an agreement with Samsung to provide Air batteries resulting from an engineering collaboration between Lucid and Samsung to develop a proprietary cell that was tolerant of fast charging. In an interview several years later, a Lucid engineer mentioned that the Samsung batteries did not require the upper-end buffer that most auto manufacturers use to protect the batteries from damage at full charge (resulting primarily from dendrite formation). This was the announcement in place at the time Lucid announced that the Air Dream Edition would have a 118-kWh pack (down from the 130-kWh pack that been suggested when the Air prototype was first revealed).

A couple of years after the Samsung announcement, Lucid announced that it had reached an agreement with LG Chem to provide batteries for the main production run of Airs. Unlike the prior Samsung announcement which specifically mentioned a proprietary chemistry to tolerate fast charging, this announcement said that LG Chem's batteries were well suited to the design characteristics of the Air, suggesting that the batteries were among LG Chem's standard production batteries rather than specifically engineered for Lucid. It was on the heels of this announcement that Lucid revealed the Grand Touring would have a 112-kWh battery pack.

As both packs have 6,600 cells and the Lucid engineer only mentioned the Samsung batteries as not requiring an upper-end buffer, it would seem that the absence of that buffer with the Samsung batteries might account for the 6-kWh difference in the rating of the two packs. If that's correct, it would suggest that all the 118-kWh packs use Samsung batteries.

Lucid is still sourcing batteries from both Samsung and LG Chem. But really interesting things are afoot with Samsung and Lucid.

It appears that Samsung has a 4680 form factor battery (shades of Tesla) in the works that might be of interest to Lucid:

Samsung and LG meeting with Lucid on cylindrical battery and dual-stack OLED display for new EV models

Lucid may have new EV models in its pipeline as it is gearing up to order new dual-stack OLED display size from LG. Samsung's Chairman is also meeting with Lucid on the sidelines of a South Korea-US business meeting to discuss cylindrical battery supply for its electric vehicles.

www.notebookcheck.net

And Samsung and Lucid formed a joint battery venture in 2022, with Samsung soon thereafter announcing a $1B deal to supply batteries for the Lucid Gravity:

Lucid Motors and Samsung: A Match Made in EV Heaven!https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d426f3_b2c4c9b5c8734187a21cfa088275fe61~mv2.png

IntroductionPicture this: a young, innovative electric vehicle (EV) company joining forces with a tech giant known for its cutting-edge electronics and battery expertise. Sounds like a match made in EV heaven, right? Well, buckle up, Lucid Motors enthusiasts, because this dream partnership has...

www.electricvehicleshq.com

I still wonder two things:
First, where were they planning to put the other 12 kwh of battery?
Also, why would they not stick with the samsung cells even for the gt/touring/pure? They seem better, and they are proprietary..

 

[joec]

I still wonder two things:
First, where were they planning to put the other 12 kwh of battery?
Also, why would they not stick with the samsung cells even for the gt/touring/pure? They seem better, and they are proprietary..

They are more expensive. Like, prohibitively expensive.

 

[xponents]

They are more expensive. Like, prohibitively expensive.

I assume that is what made the Dream more expensive(considering the feature content vs gt)

 

[Adnillien]

They are more expensive. Like, prohibitively expensive.

I doubt anyone on the forum has actual knowledge of the supply costs of Samsung versus LG. I would guess that both supply capacity and price were part of the decision.

 

[hmp10]

First, where were they planning to put the other 12 kwh of battery?

I don't think they were that far along in their engineering at that point. This was in the 2016 timeframe at a time Lucid was aiming to break range records with 400 miles of range. Given where the rest of their drive and power components were at that point, they probably calculated that it would take 130 kWh to get 400 miles of range. Many of the motor developments that made it to market -- including the cooling techniques and the volumetric power density -- came a couple of years later.

 

[hmp10]

I assume that is what made the Dream more expensive(considering the feature content vs gt)

The Dream also had a different rear motor that involved exotic metallurgy.

 

[Shuasha]

The Dream also had a different rear motor that involved exotic metallurgy.

Interesting, I wonder if that's why the Dream was getting 500+ miles on 70mph range tests and GTs seem to get around 440.

 

[joec]

Interesting, I wonder if that's why the Dream was getting 500+ miles on 70mph range tests and GTs seem to get around 440.

The Dream was always meant to be a limited-edition car. You can do lots of things when you only have to build 520 of something that you can't do when you plan to make 10,000+ of them.

 

[xponents]

The Dream was always meant to be a limited-edition car. You can do lots of things when you only have to build 520 of something that you can't do when you plan to make 10,000+ of them.

Maybe the sapphire will also have the more limited motors/the samsung battery pack? Surely would explain the price..

 

[hmp10]

Maybe the sapphire will also have the more limited motors/the samsung battery pack? Surely would explain the price..

There's a lot to explain the price of the Sapphire, besides the inherent costs of specialized components for low-volume production:

- the third motor
- the carbon fiber brake discs (and woven carbon strands at that, not just the more common carbon fiber matrix)
- 10-piston front calipers
- development of in house traction control electronics that cycle many times faster than the Bosch system used in other Airs
- different suspension components, from knuckles to bushings
- torque vectoring software
- bespoke mixed-compound Michelin tires
- et cetera . . . .