Beyond the Charging Curve: What Are Your Real-World DCFC Speeds?

[BS8899]

Well I said I'd check next time I was on a trip.
2023 Pure AWD, 45F, preconditioned for 35 minutes, driving between 60 and 75.
Took 30 seconds from attaching plug until charging began
Speed. SOC
238kw. 5%
222kw. 10%
200kw. 15%
187kw. 20%
172kw. 25%
160kw. 30%
148kw. 35%
139kw. 40%
125kw. 45%
112kw. 50%
101kw. 55%
91kw. 60%
82kw. 65%
74kw. 70%
65kw. 75%
57kw. 80%
Total time 37 minutes.

Your experience at EA DCFC is similar to mine (AGT) after adjusting for the battery size and charging curve differences. As I reported previously, It takes me ~50-60 min (including authentication) to do a ~5-10% to 80% charge. The 350kW chargers seldom deliver much over 250kW,and (perhaps) limited by AGT's charging curve and station's loading, quickly drops to 170kW or less. The 150kW chargers typically delivers 160-170kW at low SoC. Thus, the overall (10% to 80%) charge time at an EA station on a Lucid is not that different between the 350kW and 150kW chargers at the EA station.

For the inqusitive minds, go look up the State-of-Charge videos on this subject. In short, [1] small difference between 150kW and 350kW charging time for 10-80% charging [2] 150kW EA charger typically delivers a bit above their rated power whilst 350kW chargers peak in the mid to high 200's kW, and [3] there is a noticiable amount of unaccounted-for energy loss (incuured at charging). Presumably lost as heat.

 

[borski]

Your experience at EA DCFC is similar to mine (AGT) after adjusting for the battery size and charging curve differences. As I reported previously, It takes me ~50-60 min (including authentication) to do a ~5-10% to 80% charge. The 350kW chargers seldom deliver much over 250kW,and (perhaps) limited by AGT's charging curve and station's loading, quickly drops to 170kW or less. The 150kW chargers typically delivers 160-170kW at low SoC. Thus, the overall (10% to 80%) charge time at an EA station on a Lucid is not that different between the 350kW and 150kW chargers at the EA station.

For the inqusitive minds, go look up the State-of-Charge videos on this subject. In short, [1] small difference between 150kW and 350kW charging time for 10-80% charging [2] 150kW EA charger typically delivers a bit above their rated power whilst 350kW chargers peak in the mid to high 200's kW, and [3] there is a noticiable amount of unaccounted-for energy loss (incuured at charging). Presumably lost as heat.

The Pure and the AGT are going to charge completely differently. 350kW chargers do not peak in the 200s. I personally see above 300kW fairly regularly.

 

[BS8899]

The Pure and the AGT are going to charge completely differently. 350kW chargers do not peak in the 200s. I personally see above 300kW fairly regularly.

All the power to you....when I am on my road trips, I charge regularly at EA. getting 300kW is a RARE occurrence. To be clear, you have a DE, correct?

I am NOT saying the AGT and the Pure should charge the same. There is an approx. 40% difference in battery size alone and different charging curves. I am taking these factors into consideration.

Perhaps your experience is different. But my own experience with my AGT is different.

Would you advise me to take my AGT to the Service Centera nd ask them to look into my battery and Wunderbox why it is so lame compared to your DE? I have a Service appointment in early January!

 

[borski]

All the power to you....when I am on my road trips, I charge regularly at EA. getting 300kW is a RARE occurrence. To be clear, you have a DE, correct?

I am NOT saying the AGT and the Pure should charge the same. There is an approx. 40% difference in battery size alone and different charging curves. I am taking these factors into consideration.

Perhaps your experience is different. But my own experience with my AGT is different.

Would you advise me to take my AGT to the Service Centera nd ask them to look into my battery and Wunderbox why it is so lame compared to your DE? I have a Service appointment in early January!

I didn’t say lame, and my DE will charge faster than a GT.

But you should absolutely be seeing charge speeds faster than an hour, if you precindition, etc. It should be 30-40min max. If you’ve never seen that, then yes, it’s probably your car.

The Pure tops out at 250kW, period. The GT is listed as 300kW; but I’ve seen higher in a loaner GT.

 

[BS8899]

I didn’t say lame, and my DE will charge faster than a GT.

But you should absolutely be seeing charge speeds faster than an hour, if you precindition, etc. It should be 30-40min max. If you’ve never seen that, then yes, it’s probably your car.

The Pure tops out at 250kW, period. The GT is listed as 300kW; but I’ve seen higher in a loaner GT.

I get all of that. My experience, on multiple charging episodes, show ~50-60min for a 5%0/10% to 80% charge. And VERY SELDOMLY do the EA 350kW chargers hit 300 + kW......and even if they did, the charging curve will curtail that charge rate within minutes. That's just the reality!

I am all ears if any one have ideas how I can get faster 80% SoC charging on my trips.

 

[borski]

I get all of that. My experience, on multiple charging episodes, show ~50-60min for a 5%0/10% to 80% charge. And VERY SELDOMLY do the EA 350kW chargers hit 300 + kW......and even if they did, the charging curve will curtail that charge rate within minutes. That's just the reality!

I am all ears if any one have ideas how I can get faster 80% SoC charging on my trips.

I believe that that has been your reality. I do not believe that should be your expectation. Have you tried using EVGo?

 

[momo3605]

I get all of that. My experience, on multiple charging episodes, show ~50-60min for a 5%0/10% to 80% charge. And VERY SELDOMLY do the EA 350kW chargers hit 300 + kW......and even if they did, the charging curve will curtail that charge rate within minutes. That's just the reality!

I am all ears if any one have ideas how I can get faster 80% SoC charging on my trips.

I do generally agree with you that the charging curve is less than ideal, and drops rapidly within a couple minutes to below 200kw...but i do agree with @borski. It shouldn't be 50-60 minutes. The pre-2024 AGT SHOULD be in the 35-40 minute range.

 

[momo3605]

I am all ears if any one have ideas how I can get faster 80% SoC charging on my trips.

Can you post up a charge curve? Or some screenshots while sitting at EA? We could probably attempt to diagnose if there's some "user error" "station error" or vehicle issue

 

[BS8899]

I believe that that has been your reality. I do not believe that should be your expectation. Have you tried using EVGo?

No, I have not tried EVGo. I can try that on my next raos trip in my Lucid, that won't be till March 2025. I wanted to try charging my AGT on the Rivian RAN chargers (300 kW), but have not looked carefully on their specs. If I could do that, I can try sometime during the Christmas/NY holidays.

I do generally agree with you that the charging curve is less than ideal, and drops rapidly within a couple minutes to below 200kw...but i do agree with @borski. It shouldn't be 50-60 minutes. The pre-2024 AGT SHOULD be in the 35-40 minute range.

We have the same objectives: try to understand why me (and some other owners experience longer charge time than anticipated. @mom365 is correct, if I were the only guy charging at the EA station, with optimal preconditioning and weather, and all the 350kW chargers were operated optimally, I should have a better experience. But, there is a gap.
....EA charging is a plug-and-paly. I don't get to play with any parameter.
....If we compare my experience with expectations (rooted in the published charging curve and assumed charger capabilities), does that mean [1] my watch is wrong? [2] the charging curve can vary (i.e., having a high sigma), or [3] there are unknown, undocumented factors in the charger (sustainable peak kW, balancing, throttling, etc.) that I simply don't understand? [4] parasitic energy loss (i.e., charges that was dispensed by the charger but not translated into battery SoC in the end) [see SoC's review on EA charging with 150kW and 350 kW charging on 2022 AGT, my exact model]

In any event, I went to talk to my Lucid Service Advisor this morning. I told the advisor that a "very learned owner" suggests that my battery/Wunderbox might be defective and a contributing factor. As it turn out, I am already scheduled for a 2yr (24,000 mi) maintenance on Jan 2, 2025. I only have 14,000mi on my AGT. My HV battery and Wunderbox were uninstalled and replaced after 2 weeks of ownership in Nov. 2022. I am asking the advisor to redo the Wunderbox/HV battery test as part of my 2 yr/24,000 mile service. I also asked the advisor to get permission to share the detailed testing results with us (me and the "very learned owner"). The advisor has to get permission to share the detail findings. We shall see.

 

[BS8899]

Can you post up a charge curve? Or some screenshots while sitting at EA? We could probably attempt to diagnose if there's some "user error" "station error" or vehicle issue

I don't have an archive of screen shots of the EA or the Lucid screens. I can start doing so and send when I have the info.

At this time, I don't plan to take the Lucid on a road trip until March 2025. I rotate between my Rivian and my Lucid. I am in AZ now and driving my Lucid. I am flying back to Marin in January.

But I will do what you suggest the first chance I have, probably in late March or early April.

 

[momo3605]

I don't have an archive of screen shots of the EA or the Lucid screens. I can start doing so and send when I have the info.

At this time, I don't plan to take the Lucid on a road trip until March 2025. I rotate between my Rivian and my Lucid. I am in AZ now and driving my Lucid. I am flying back to Marin in January.

But I will do what you suggest the first chance I have, probably in late March or early April.

Lucid app has an archive of all your charging stops.

Here’s one of mine that was to 80%. This was 42 minutes

 

[BS8899]

Lucid app has an archive of all your charging stops.

Here’s one of mine that was to 80%. This was 42 minutes

Didn't know that...I will look into it.

 

[BS8899]

Didn't know that...I will look into it.

where do I go look on my Lucid App for the charging data?

 

[momo3605]

where do I go look on my Lucid App for the charging data?

Hamburger icon bottom right -> lucid charging service -> charging history

 

[BS8899]

Hamburger icon bottom right -> lucid charging service -> charging history

Here is one:

From about 1% SoC to ~82% based on this screen's metrics.

I don't know whether the Lucid App captures the actual "beneficial kWh added" (i.e., actually electrons in the HV battery that is now ready to power the car), or the # kWh charged by EA, which includes the overhead stuff. I suspect it is the # kWh charged by EA. If so, this includes the "non-beneficial" kWh as described in the SoC videos. If so, the 46min of charge time, plus about 3-5 min of setup and authentication, would have resulted in ~78% SoC fill.

 

[BS8899]

Here is one:

From about 1% SoC to ~82% based on this screen's metrics.

I don't know whether the Lucid App captures the actual "beneficial kWh added" (i.e., actually electrons in the HV battery that is now ready to power the car), or the # kWh charged by EA, which includes the overhead stuff. I suspect it is the # kWh charged by EA. If so, this includes the "non-beneficial" kWh as described in the SoC videos. If so, the 46min of charge time, plus about 3-5 min of setup and authentication, would have resulted in ~78% SoC fill.

Here is the screen shot

 

[BS8899]

Here is the screen shot

View attachment 25328

Welcome any insight.

 

[momo3605]

Welcome any insight.

Well for one, this isn't 10-80....this is an 82% total charge, so im not sure if that's 1-83 or 8-90....but maybe it's expected especially if you went above 80. It does get reeeal slow up there.

 

[BS8899]

Well for one, this isn't 10-80....this is an 82% total charge, so im not sure if that's 1-83 or 8-90....but maybe it's expected especially if you went above 80. It does get reeeal slow up there.

I don't recall what the starting SoC was. It is not unusual I'd run it down to below 10% before charging.

The second point is, I think this metric represents the billed EV kWs, which includes the non-beneficial kWh consumed during the charging cycle.

Since the available metrics might not allow us to pin point the starting SoC, we can still estimate the best and worst case bounds. Fair?

 

[momo3605]

I don't recall what the starting SoC was. It is not unusual I'd run it down to below 10% before charging.

The second point is, I think this metric represents the billed EV kWs, which includes the non-beneficial kWh consumed during the charging cycle.

Since the available metrics might not allow us to pin point the starting SoC, we can still estimate the best and worst case bounds. Fair?

I think best case if this was 0-82 would be around 40 minutes.

Worst case If this was 10-92 it would be an hour lol.