Beyond the Charging Curve: What Are Your Real-World DCFC Speeds?

[BS8899]

See, these speeds are just mind-boggling to me. If I don't see these pictures (as I seem to be more regularly now that I'm actively looking), I'm almost completely unconvinced that my car is even capable of charging this fast. On my way back up from SoCal, I was preconditioning for almost a full hour (since I only wanted one charge stop and I wanted it to be as quick as possible), and even though Kettleman City was completely empty when I charged, I couldn't get faster than 130 kW at 40%.

Before you blame yourself or blame the car, bear in mind that the "balanced" DCFC chargers (e.g., EA) might be the throttle.
That aside, as I mentioned, I find little to no difference between EA 350kW and EA150kW chargers on my Lucid. I don't pretend to know all the reasons behind it. But I suspect the "balancing" between the multiple chargers on the station is a contributing factor.

Nowadays, I don't "wait" for the 350 kW charger. I will grab any EA charger, 350kW or 150kw and start charging. The difference in charging time, if any, is small.

 

[borski]

Before you blame yourself or blame the car, bear in mind that the "balanced" DCFC chargers (e.g., EA) might be the throttle.
That aside, as I mentioned, I find little to no difference between EA 350kW and EA150kW chargers on my Lucid. I don't pretend to know all the reasons behind it. But I suspect the "balancing" between the multiple chargers on the station is a contributing factor.

Nowadays, I don't "wait" for the 350 kW charger. I will grab any EA charger, 350kW or 150kw and start charging. The difference in charging time, if any, is small.

The balanced chargers only come into play if someone is on the other charger.

 

[daveo4ev]

I routinely get 175 kW charge rate at 150 kW EA stations with my non-Lucid EV(s) - and I have nothing but trouble with EA's 350's - I'm not yet a Lucid customer, but for my previous EV's the "net" difference between a reliable 175 kW charge rate and a mythical 270 kW max charge rate is about 8 minutes to 80 % SOC…but I'm not deeply familar with the Lucid's charging curve so my numbers are just for an example…

the problem is a max charge rate of say 270 kW is only faster until the charging curve takes it down to 175 kW or lower - on my current and previous EV's you're below 175 kW by about 50% SOC - so the only beneficial performance difference is for the portion of the charging curve…that has the potential to be more than 175 kW…

for my previous EV's I could sometimes get 268 kW from about 20% until about 45% - after that it was 175 kW and then tapering down after 50% SOC…with it being 100 kW at about 80% SOC…

so the "high speed" gain can only happen from about 10% until 45% - after that a 350 kW EA charger is just as fast as a 175 kW EA charger…

I'm not saying 8 minutes doens't matter, but it's not nearly as dramatic as many people assume it is - since you spend over 1/2 of your charging session at speeds a 150 kW charger can handle…

what's the best source/table/graph for the Lucid's best/optimal charging curve - once I have taht we can estimate the net delta between an ideal 350 kW charge and a solid/reliable 175/150 kW charging session…

with 30 min included/free EA charging never unplugged at the 18/22 minute mark anyways once I've stopped I'm not focused on that level of optimization.

 

[momo3605]

In the real world, It doesn’t matter too much if you precondition or not, use a 350kw charger or not, if it’s balanced or not, etc…

The GT and even Pure/Touring is capable of 200+kw for a very short time. It drops quickly and on a Touring is right under 100kw by 50%. So even if you show up to a charger that’s busy or you didn’t precondition fully, the majority of your charge will be at 150kw or less.

(Disclaimer: Does not apply to DE/GTP, we all know they charge faster)

 

[ardhout]

I drove my Touring '24 in Eastern Europe last summer for a 5000km roadtrip. (it was hot). Tried out many different DC chargers.
Charging from 20% SoC, gives me briefly 230kW.
Once I saw 260kW for a moment, after charging started but probably SoC was lower that time, a few times I drove till 8-10%.

 

[daveo4ev]

the ideal/optimal fast charging rate is a perishable state - there are narrow windows of opportunity to achieve it once you've plugged in - if conditions are not right you'll charge right past the window (pun intended) in terms of the taper curve vs. SOC…that's why arriving pre-conditioned is important if you want to achieve "the numbers" - you won't have to time to adjust "the conditions" once you've plugged in…

 

[Lucken]

I’ve always wondered with the additional energy consumed with pre-conditioning, what’s the real net gain for the faster charging speeds? Afterall, that additional pre-conditioning charge loss has to now be added to the normal charge you’re seeking.

This is probably a variable with ambient temperature playing a key role, but I wonder if at times the pre-conditioning speed gain makes little difference in the total charge time. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen an A/B test showing bottom line net gain.

 

[Pragmatic]

Preconditioning when battery is already warm will use almost no energy. It may not speed up DCFC much but it will not require much energy.
I have had the battery fans come on while DCFC even with 20F ambient. I normally run it down to less than 10% when roadtripping and usually get to 80% in 35 minutes.

 

[Pragmatic]

Preconditioning when battery is already warm will use almost no energy. It may not speed up DCFC much but it will not require much energy.
I have had the battery fans come on while DCFC even with 20F ambient. I normally run it down to less than 10% when roadtripping and usually get to 80% in 35 minutes.

 

[BS8899]

In the real world, It doesn’t matter too much if you precondition or not, use a 350kw charger or not, if it’s balanced or not, etc…

The GT and even Pure/Touring is capable of 200+kw for a very short time. It drops quickly and on a Touring is right under 100kw by 50%. So even if you show up to a charger that’s busy or you didn’t precondition fully, the majority of your charge will be at 150kw or less.

(Disclaimer: Does not apply to DE/GTP, we all know they charge faster)

I think @mo3605's summary above is a good capture of the "reality" of charging at DCFC and preconditioning. It is entirely consistent with my experience. The Lucid, with the existing charging profile, beyond the initial 5-8 minutes of "sugar-high" charging, most of the remaining charging time is likely going to be below 150kW, even on a 350 kW charger. It will be well below 100kW by the time you get to 50-60% SoC. Looking at the recent OoS I-90 Surge, I'd expect EVs with a flatter charging curve than the Lucid would fare better.

The "DCFC balancing" question is situational depended. It is hard to ascertain. Beyond just balancing (between two adjacent chargers), some EA stations warns you (via ,messages on the charger screen) that charging is being throttled because of the available current. The entire charging cycle can drop to 50kW or less for the entire duration. I've experienced this kind of "station throttling" a couple of times.

My current practice on my 780 mile road trip with the Lucid is to start out at home with 100% SoC (L2 charged at home) and then do two DCFC charges en route. As I explained in my earlier post, these stops can take 50-60min. On my next trip, I might opt for 3 or even 4 stops, say 20-30m each.

Quoting the late Robin Williams, "Reality, what a concept"!

 

[hydbob]

I think @mo3605's summary above is a good capture of the "reality" of charging at DCFC and preconditioning. It is entirely consistent with my experience. The Lucid, with the existing charging profile, beyond the initial 5-8 minutes of "sugar-high" charging, most of the remaining charging time is likely going to be below 150kW, even on a 350 kW charger. It will be well below 100kW by the time you get to 50-60% SoC. Looking at the recent OoS I-90 Surge, I'd expect EVs with a flatter charging curve than the Lucid would fare better.

The "DCFC balancing" question is situational depended. It is hard to ascertain. Beyond just balancing (between two adjacent chargers), some EA stations warns you (via ,messages on the charger screen) that charging is being throttled because of the available current. The entire charging cycle can drop to 50kW or less for the entire duration. I've experienced this kind of "station throttling" a couple of times.

My current practice on my 780 mile road trip with the Lucid is to start out at home with 100% SoC (L2 charged at home) and then do two DCFC charges en route. As I explained in my earlier post, these stops can take 50-60min. On my next trip, I might opt for 3 or even 4 stops, say 20-30m each.

Quoting the late Robin Williams, "Reality, what a concept"!

I love how when it comes to charging everyone's anecdotal data is gospel even though there are other experiences which differ but are dismissed as one offs...

 

[momo3605]

I love how when it comes to charging everyone's anecdotal data is gospel even though there are other experiences which differ but are dismissed as one offs...

It’s not anecdotal for Pure/Touring/GT. It’s fact. There are plenty of fully preconditioned charge curves posted everywhere and you’ve seen yourself that they charge significantly slower. Your GT-P experience isn’t relevant to our plebeian models

 

[borski]

It’s not anecdotal for Pure/Touring/GT. It’s fact. There are plenty of fully preconditioned charge curves posted everywhere and you’ve seen yourself that they charge significantly slower. Your GT-P experience isn’t relevant to our plebeian models

It is absolutely anecdotal for a GT. I have driven and charged GT loaners. I regularly get above 250kW in them, and it doesn’t charge much slower than my DE (it does a bit, but not super noticeable).

I cannot speak to the Pure/Touring as I haven’t charged one. That’s why I really want to take this Touring loaner and charge side by side with @LucidDropkick

 

[borski]

Random example from Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LUCID/comments/1donh26/2024_air_gt_charging_curve

Sure, it ramps down quickly, but *nothing* like what @LucidDropkick is describing. He has never seen these speeds at all, which is not a GT problem.

 

[borski]

Here is another GT charging curve as tested by evkx: https://evkx.net/images/models/lucid/air/air_grand_touring/chargingcurve.svg

And here is their DE-P curve for comparison:

https://evkx.net/images/models/lucid/air/air_dream_edition_performance/chargingcurve.svg

 

[momo3605]

I cannot speak to the Pure/Touring as I haven’t charged one. That’s why I really want to take this Touring loaner and charge side by side with @LucidDropkick

Please take lots of pictures (and not just at the start). If you even manage to see 200kw after 5 mins of starting I will eat my words. Even preconditioned it’s down to 100kw or less by 50%

 

[momo3605]

Here is another GT charging curve as tested by evkx: https://evkx.net/images/models/lucid/air/air_grand_touring/chargingcurve.svg

And here is their DE-P curve for comparison:

https://evkx.net/images/models/lucid/air/air_dream_edition_performance/chargingcurve.svg

This is a 2025 GT. which has the bigger battery. The 22/23 GTs don’t charge like that

 

[borski]

This is a 2025 GT. which has the bigger battery. The 22/23 GTs don’t charge like that

How about a 2024 GT?

 

[borski]

Or a 2022 GT getting 349kW in 2022?

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/s/6uEdt3y5wQ

 

[Pragmatic]

I don't pay too much attention to it. It seems fairly consistant in 35 minutes to get from 10-80. I know I've gotten low 200's and it seems to hoover around 150 for a while. 2023 Pure AWD. I'll watch on the next road trip (Christmas week).