2025 Taycan range and charging

[LucidPez]

I didn’t realize you weren’t an owner yet. Will love to hear your experience with range and efficiency when you get it given you’ve owned a couple different EVs. Which etron did you have? SUV or GT?

I’ve owned a Volt, Bolt, i3, model 3 SR+, model 3 Performance, and a Rivian. Lucid’s been by far the worst from its rated range. I do a feel a little duped, prior to buying I thought the lucid would at least do 300 in normal driving conditions. After vampire drain, I’m lucky to get 200-250/charge. Only after I started spending time here did a realize it’s actually normal.

GT

 

[thecodingart]

I’ve had the following EVs:
Tesla MS
Jaguar I-Pace
Audi e-Tron
Genesis electrified G80
BMW i4
Lucid Pure AWD

I have not changed my driving habits with any of these EVs, I drive them all the same. There is zero question, zero, that the Lucid is far and away the most efficient of any I’ve owned. My lifetime average is 4.1 as of today. It was obviously higher prior to the onset of winter.

Why yours is so poor driving relatively conservatively as you seem to imply is beyond me.

There’s other threads for this debate…

 

[DreamTour]

My observations on range / Lucid compared to EPA.

I run a Air touring with 21" summer tires.

For a daily loop i run, mixed local, freeway, hill climb / descend.

3.6 mi / kwh at leisrurely speeds / ideal driving temps ~72 degrees, no HVAC. (which is rare because with a glass roof if it's sunny you are probably running A/C)
3.4 mi / kwh (no HVAC)
3.2 mi / kwh (w/ HVAC)
3.0 mi / kwh if cold soaked overnight (cold here means 40 degrees F and HVAC on a 20 mile round trip)

2.4 mi / kwh average if you count vampire losses since i don't drive a lot each day. (Using since last trip measure instead of trip measure)

So i think it's entirely possible that all these experiences are valid observations. It's a large range of range outcomes. But really quite explanable by environmental differences. Short trips punish efficiency because of the battery conditioning cycles, Hvac cycles, and overall power overhead of the car being on, and more vampire losses if not plugging in every day.

 

[momo3605]

if they were to remove the start/stop button + regen breaking requirements (have to toggle it each and every time the vehicle is driven),

Given that the macan ev still doesn’t have one pedal, it’s probably safe to say they won’t either. But I agree with you. Lack of phone key, and start/stop button are the biggest annoyances with the Taycan. I could get used to not having one-pedal regen. Any idea if macan ev will have phone key or carkey? I had carkey in my m340 but it required you to tap your phone on the door. Wasn’t a fan of that

 

[LucidPez]

The Start/Stop button is optional to use on the Taycan/e-tron GT. You can get in your car and put your foot on the brake and itll just auto start. When you exit and lock your car, it auto turns off.

They may have phone as a key in the future. Porsche is in bed with Apple hence why Apple Maps works with the car OS to track EV chargers via Apple Maps and uses your range from your car to determine best options. The new iOS apparently has some updates to Apple Carplay OS which takes over the whole car and Apple said Porsche/Aston Martin are the first to sign on. But we arent sure when those will hit. They did say they expect a car manufacturer to debut with it in 2024.

Porsche claims they get better mileage with 'coasting' then regen. I am kinda like ehhhhh to coasting. For my e-tron GT, I can hit my paddles 3x and set it at 'max regen' but it is barely noticeable. Its like an ICE car just decelerating normally now as opposed to just flat out coasting and staying at the same speed for a long long time.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

View attachment 18135

I mentioned the poll. Is this conjecture to you? Is your personal opinion more valid than the 278 votes here?

Or the fact that the top 5 threads(and the overall majority of threads) in the efficiency forum are of people not able to get anywhere close to stated range.

Or the fact that motortrend and car and driver that have tested the Pure/Touring have only ever managed 280-300 miles.

What are facts to you?
I’d also like to know how many other EVs you’ve owned and what your experience with efficiency is.

Do you not understand what a test and data are versus anecdote? If I say “I’m getting 70% range”, that is an anecdote. If I say “I drove the car at a steady 65mph on a relatively flat surface with ambient temps 80F climate set to 70 19” tires at PSI 49 with minimal exits or acceleration back up to 65mph speeds”, THAT is data. Like the video that @Bobby made, or Tom Moloughney’s range test. All of those factors I just listed are what play into range, not a poll on here. You’re literally just trying to argue for the sake of arguing, not seeming to comprehend that describing testing conditions is the only valid way to make an INFORMED comment on range, nor understanding that “range” and “range under x Y Z conditions” are two different things. EPA testing is range under X Y Z conditions, Edmunds test is under their conditions,
Inside EVs test is under their set conditions, and the poll on here is literally not able to be cited as data as we live all over the country at varying elevations, temps, and different size wheels, driving at different speeds etc. Of course I fully expect some reply disagreeing with that for some reason, but I think deep down inside you must know. If you don’t understand this I hope you take the time to read Carl Sagan’s “Demon Haunted World”, as I was fortunate at a young age to read that and learned about the tools needed to determine how to sort out fact from just “here’s what I think”.

 

[no gas]

View attachment 18135

I mentioned the poll. Is this conjecture to you? Is your personal opinion more valid than the 278 votes here?

Or the fact that the top 5 threads(and the overall majority of threads) in the efficiency forum are of people not able to get anywhere close to stated range.

Or the fact that motortrend and car and driver that have tested the Pure/Touring have only ever managed 280-300 miles.

What are facts to you?
I’d also like to know how many other EVs you’ve owned and what your experience with efficiency is.

There are a lot of factors involved, throttle input, degree of braking, how much regeneration, climate, elevation changes, HVAC, number of passengers, average speed, degree of stop and go and many more. These ranges presented by Lucid are based in EPA cycles. Im sure if you drive like those cycles you will get that range. Go try it out.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Hmmm, I wonder if one of our own just did that…

 

[Steveinarizona]

My GV60 got about 85% of the EPA range. My Audi got more during the summers but during 60 degree winters in SoCal it is only getting about 84%.

My Mach-E would get exactly on the nose for EPA.

But I think the issue is that the EPA doesnt have a consistent set of rules for manufacturers and some choose conservative or liberal figures and then the real world range gets exposed in many of these tests we see from outlets and users themselves. There just needs to be a massive overhaul on that.

Not sure what I get on my GV60P because I don't care. But the widget on my dash says my lifetime efficiency (15 months) has been 3.0. It is so much fun to drive one of these cars that I can't imagine getting one and then driving it conservatively.

 

[GEWC]

I’ve had the following EVs:
Tesla MS
Jaguar I-Pace
Audi e-Tron
Genesis electrified G80
BMW i4
Lucid Pure AWD

I have not changed my driving habits with any of these EVs, I drive them all the same. There is zero question, zero, that the Lucid is far and away the most efficient of any I’ve owned. My lifetime average is 4.1 as of today. It was obviously higher prior to the onset of winter.

Why yours is so poor driving relatively conservatively as you seem to imply is beyond me.

I've had a similar experience, though not as much variety in my EVs. My lifetime is 4.0 driving how I like for almost 28k miles. I am not a speed demon, but I am not a slow driver either. There are so many factors that affect range. I regularly get 5.4, and can get closer to 6 when driving my kids the 20 miles to school every day (just driving up the 17 and 85, for local folks) with or without traffic. But the way home brings me down to 4.1 - 4.3, depending on how fast I drive. Much of the return loss is just from the on-ramp from 101 to 85 which brings me down to the 4s immediately, especially if I go up it at speed. If I drive too close to other cars and am constantly slowing down and speeding up, I get much lower effeciency than simply leaving space and judging speeds ahead so I don't have to alter my speed as much. Little habits can make a big difference.

 

[Crdgk]

Hmmm, I wonder if one of our own just did that…

Bunny (and Bobby), great video. One error I think. Bobby, a 10% increase in speed (60 to 66), gives a 1.1 x 1.1=1.21 or 21% increase in resistance due to square of the speed proportional to drag. I don't know how you get from 10% increase in speed gives 100% increase in drag (1:40 in video)? Bunny's comments about polls are spot on.
If you want the physics: 6-4-drag-force-and-terminal-speed
Nevertheless, thanks for the video. Unfortunately, I do understand the concerns as I have never gotten 4.2 living in the mountains and never drive 65 on the highway (and it isn't flat anyway) and we do have something called winter. . 3.4 is about what I get at best. that's at 80mph. you would get run over out here at 65, even trucks do better than that on wide open roads. Then again, my Toyota Highlander Hybrid rarely ever gets It’s EPA range (excepting short trips on county road at 60mph) and at real highway speed is down about 21% on average. And just drove Highlander 1000miles during the recent arctic cold snap where first part of trip was -10 to -20deg and got 1/2 of EPA. So It’s gas and EV that have problems in non-standard conditions.

 

[xponents]

I've had a similar experience, though not as much variety in my EVs. My lifetime is 4.0 driving how I like for almost 28k miles. I am not a speed demon, but I am not a slow driver either. There are so many factors that affect range. I regularly get 5.4, and can get closer to 6 when driving my kids the 20 miles to school every day (just driving up the 17 and 85, for local folks) with or without traffic. But the way home brings me down to 4.1 - 4.3, depending on how fast I drive. Much of the return loss is just from the on-ramp from 101 to 85 which brings me down to the 4s immediately, especially if I go up it at speed. If I drive too close to other cars and am constantly slowing down and speeding up, I get much lower effeciency than simply leaving space and judging speeds ahead so I don't have to alter my speed as much. Little habits can make a big difference.

Wtf... now I know why you're called the range queen of the forum. Explain to me your teachings o master!

Like, HOW do you get 5.4..

 

[LucidPez]

Not sure what I get on my GV60P because I don't care. But the widget on my dash says my lifetime efficiency (15 months) has been 3.0. It is so much fun to drive one of these cars that I can't imagine getting one and then driving it conservatively.

You had better efficiency than me! My lifetime efficiency on my GV60P was 2.7

 

[GEWC]

Wtf... now I know why you're called the range queen of the forum. Explain to me your teachings o master!

Like, HOW do you get 5.4..

Lol, I simply pay attention so I don't waste energy. That is the bulk of it.

 

[HariK]

View attachment 18135

I mentioned the poll. Is this conjecture to you? Is your personal opinion more valid than the 278 votes here?

Or the fact that the top 5 threads(and the overall majority of threads) in the efficiency forum are of people not able to get anywhere close to stated range.

Or the fact that motortrend and car and driver that have tested the Pure/Touring have only ever managed 280-300 miles.

What are facts to you?
I’d also like to know how many other EVs you’ve owned and what your experience with efficiency is.

What is the meaning of this poll? Anyone who owns any EV knows that EPA average speed is about 58mph. The right poll should specify the conditions to test and report. You are comparing apples and oranges in this poll perhaps. Someone driving in cold weather, 80mph and accelerating fast as well as someone driving 65mph warm weather and accelerating gently can have very different results as many of us have already posted.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

They did run HVAC in eco mode, that doesn’t mean off…and they ran it up and down the grapevine. Everyone is quick to point out how hills driving destroys range. Anyway, I don’t think anyone drives like any of these tests. Look at the range threads here, the average is about 3 miles/kwh. I am critical of Lucid’s range because their motors are only efficient in such a narrow range. think real world driving makes these cars pretty weak in the efficiency regard.

So in my opinion, In the real world this will be a 300-350 mile car like I mentioned in my OP. Which is pretty good. I also already mentioned it’s not a competitor to the lucid. The lucid and Taycan are not purchased by the same kind of person. These kind of products only help to push the technology forward. 14 minute 5-80% charging and 350 miles of freeway range is nothing to scoff at. It’s a good release and that was my only point in posting.

Anyway, your point is fair, I’ll try to keep my criticisms of the supposedly most advanced and highly efficient 250-270 mile touring to myself.

I think it is untrue to say Lucid motors are only efficient in such a narrow range. It is unfair if not ridiculous to say Lucid vehicles are weak in regards to efficiency.

I get 4.2-4.5 on road trips driving 74mph. I get higher than that in city driving. Besides terrain and temperature, efficiency is about driving technique.

 

[stratus]

You have to resort to hypermiling to get 450 in a GT as well. Given that most people average 3-3.5 miles/kwh at normal driving speeds and comfy hvac, that’s <400 even on a GT. I’m not saying you can’t get 450 in a GT but you have to drive uncomfortably slow and hvac set to something too high in the summer in order to get there

And forgot about it with a Touring/Pure, no way anyone will be able to do 450 in any conditions.

Last summer I drove almost 475 miles through the mountains of Idaho and Wyoming, over Teton pass to Jackson Hole and back and hit a remarkable 4.6 m/kWh on my GT. I was not hypermiling, although my driving conditions were ideal . I followed the speed limit, which was around 55-65. So, I don’t think your statement is entirely accurate. Not everyone drives on freeways ; I rarely do because where I live I don’t have to as most of our roadways are secondary highways.

 

[momo3605]

The refreshed Porsche Taycan will drive farther and charge faster than ever before

Fast car goes faster.

www.theverge.com

These are the updates that supposedly enable the better efficieincy and faster charging (along with battery bump to 105kwh)

• A new advanced powertrain with a new rear-axle motor with up to 80kW more power than its predecessor on all models
• A modified pulse inverter with optimized software
• More powerful batteries
• Revised thermal management
• A next-generation heat pump
• A modified recuperation and all-wheel drive strategy

 

[momo3605]

Yeah. So Out of Spec just got somewhere in the ballpark of 4.5-5 mi/kWh in the pre-production facelift Taycan.

If they confirm the Taycan supports Apple's Car Key (doubtful) and if they were to remove the start/stop button + regen breaking requirements (have to toggle it each and every time the vehicle is driven), I would trade in my Lucid for this in a heartbeat.

2025 Porsche Taycan Revisions Boost Both Range and Performance (caranddriver.com)

the revised Taycan still won’t offer a one-pedal drive mode as Porsche thinks this would compromise the purity of the driving experience. well there's that lol

"UI revisions include the adoption of the next-generation Apple CarPlay+, which will allow climate functions to be controlled from within the system." <- this sounds like an assumption that i don't think has been validated. But would be interesting if true!

 

[LucidPez]

https://newsroom.porsche.com/dam/jcr:3920bf54-1dd8-4b10-92a4-c5a876f7038e/Taycan%20PA%20Technic%20Presentation%20PDF.pdf.PDF

This has it all.

They improved the handshake for plug and charge by a ton. Also has screens for carplay+