Lucid Gravity getting ready for Prime Time

MJAir23TheGoat said:

I don’t think anyone ever really looks at an SUV and says oh my gosh that’s amazing looking . Even the Lamborghini Urus and the Bentley Bentayga don’t look that amazing. it’s all about functionality.

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I love a good tough looking SUV. Range Rovers are gorgeous to me, the R1S is pretty nice looking. You all might call me crazy, but I always loved the 90s Jeep Cherokee look. The problem is, these are all terrible designs for efficiency. I think I’m willing to accept some aero curves in exchange for much longer range, even though my heart calls for big sharp-cornered boxes. Still waiting to see the Gravity in person as well. The photos look a bit like you took a normal SUV and did this:

But to me the Air marketing pics looked weird as well. Owner photos look much better.

EVCar said:

Does this mean the Gravity won't use the Drive Dream Pro hardware in the Air?

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HL Klemove or Hella is one of the top three tier 1 providers of automotive ADAS sensors, the other two are Continental and Bosch. The Air is using Continental and from this report, Gravity will use HL. The capability is very similar so from a user perspective, we may not notice a difference. HL also makes LiDAR sensors so it will be interesting to see if Gravity uses RoboSense or HL. The prototype has the same LiDAR housing as the Air.

Adnillien said:

HL Klemove or Hella is one of the top three tier 1 providers of automotive ADAS sensors, the other two are Continental and Bosch. The Air is using Continental and from this report, Gravity will use HL. The capability is very similar so from a user perspective, we may not notice a difference. HL also makes LiDAR sensors so it will be interesting to see if Gravity uses RoboSense or HL. The prototype has the same LiDAR housing as the Air.

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I wonder why the change. Cost? Performance? Reliability?

hmp10 said:

I wonder why the change. Cost? Performance? Reliability?

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This is pure speculation but I suspect that Conti screwed Lucid during the pandemic parts shortage that Lucid is moving away for better supply assurance.

Yeah, I’d say Lucid is likely in a very slightly better position to get themselves more favorable agreements from suppliers now than they were four years ago. Which is to say, they can at least get some of them on the phone now.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a number of these sorts of changes for Gravity. It shares so few parts with Air already. What’s a few more?

Adnillien said:

This is pure speculation but I suspect that Conti screwed Lucid during the pandemic parts shortage that Lucid is moving away for better supply assurance.

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joec said:

Yeah, I’d say Lucid is likely in a very slightly better position to get themselves more favorable agreements from suppliers now than they were four years ago. Which is to say, they can at least get some of them on the phone now.

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This reminds me of a conversation I had with a Design Studio sales person some months before the Air entered production. Lucid had earlier posted a job for Manager of Air Suspension design, and early press reports said the car was going to have an air suspension. ("Car & Driver" continued to refer to its air suspension long after the car was in production.) But then news emerged that the Air was going to have a coil / semi-active damper setup instead. I asked why and was told it was because Lucid was using the same air suspension supplier as Rivian (which had not entered production, either), but Rivian was getting all the attention from the supplier.

As I got to know more about Rawlinson's background at Lotus and Jaguar -- two storied suspension houses -- I began to doubt the story, figuring the man knew his stuff when it came to suspensions and must have been planning the coil setup all along. And now driving a Lucid myself and seeing all the glowing handling reports from professional drivers, I totally got why that would have been the case.

But then I still think about that early job posting . . . . Did we actually end up with the superb ride and handling of the Air (far better than our Tesla's air setup) due to an inattentive supplier?

I think it is more likely that the air suspension job posting was related to Gravity rather than Air. Lucid seems to be very forward looking with with the development team. While the bulk of the work is on Gravity now, Lucid appears to be already working on a mid-size sedan and SUV.

hmp10 said:

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a Design Studio sales person some months before the Air entered production. Lucid had earlier posted a job for Manager of Air Suspension design, and early press reports said the car was going to have an air suspension. ("Car & Driver" continued to refer to its air suspension long after the car was in production.) But then news emerged that the Air was going to have a coil / semi-active damper setup instead. I asked why and was told it was because Lucid was using the same air suspension supplier as Rivian (which had not entered production, either), but Rivian was getting all the attention from the supplier.

As I got to know more about Rawlinson's background at Lotus and Jaguar -- two storied suspension houses -- I began to doubt the story, figuring the man knew his stuff when it came to suspensions and must have been planning the coil setup all along. And now driving a Lucid myself and seeing all the glowing handling reports from professional drivers, I totally got why that would have been the case.

But then I still think about that early job posting . . . . Did we actually end up with the superb ride and handling of the Air (far better than our Tesla's air setup) due to an inattentive supplier?

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I do understand your want of the coil suspension, but do we really think that air suspensions HAVE to be bad in all cases? Other than the natural attributes of it, such as hysteresis lag(which could probably be mostly tuned out), I would still trust Peter to be able to engineer the hell out of the air suspension.

Also, if Rawlinson already was a suspension master(which I do not have ANY doubt about), why would it be changed on such short notice? After all, even when he joined Lucid and premiered the Air prototype which had air suspension, he was still the same guy from Lotus who was good with suspension. If he thought air suspension was fitting for 4.5 years(2016-2020/2021), then why would he suddenly change his mind? Perhaps after driving the car himself?

Air suspensions can also be very good at some other things, like keeping the car flat with other tech coupled(try mercedes magic body control once... its RIDICULOUS) and switching between sporty modes and comfort modes more aggressively than adaptive dampers(eg: it can get stiffer and more comfortable than coil in the same thing). For actual track driving, a coil suspension will be better with no doubt(sapphire..). However, as a grand touring car, which I believe the air excels at, I would much prefer air suspension for the regular trims. For what I mean by grand touring vs sports car, think of a Bentley Continental GT vs a 911 GT3 RS. The Bentley will be good for light spirited driving and FAR more comfortable, but the 911 will beat it any day on the track. This is EXACTLY what the air is.

The fact that it is an SUV also makes more of a case for air suspensions, as "real" offroading suv owners would love the height adjustable air suspension. In addition, not many people will be driving their SUV's in a spirited manner.

xponents said:

The fact that it is an SUV also makes more of a case for air suspensions, as "real" offroading suv owners would love the height adjustable air suspension. In addition, not many people will be driving their SUV's in a spirited manner.

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Air suspensions cost more, are heavier, are more complex, have more maintenance issues, and consume a bit of electrical power for the compressors. I think the real reason they're going into the Gravity is the increased demand for ride height adjustment in an SUV. As the Air and my Audi R8s (which had the same coil/damper setup as the Air) proved, you certainly don't need them to optimize the ride/handling equation.

hmp10 said:

Air suspensions cost more, are heavier, are more complex, have more maintenance issues, and consume a bit of electrical power for the compressors. I think the real reason they're going into the Gravity is the increased demand for ride height adjustment in an SUV. As the Air and my Audi R8s (which had the same coil/damper setup as the Air) proved, you certainly don't need them to optimize the ride/handling equation.

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True. Cost and complexity likely don't matter for a vehicle like the Gravity(since adaptive dampers are already fairly complex), and maintenance issues are good from a profit perspective. Those issues also usually happen later in the lifespan in the car, and are not constantly problematic which would be bad for the customer.

Electrical power would be a concern with Lucid's efficiency focus, but the efficiency still seems to be good. I think I once read about a suspension that only used electricity when changing height, and used little to none electricity when actually in use. I don't remember if that was air suspension though. Being heavier is also barely a concern, being a SUV, I would think that the offroading advantages were found to be more worth it.

You obviously don't need them for the ride and handling. Actually, for the R8 it would be weird if it had air suspension as that was no doubt a sports car. But for things like the Air and Gravity? I feel like air suspensions are better for the purpose of grand touring with the mix of offroading in the case of the SUV. I also doubt the dream will have coils standard, as last time every upgraded feature was included. Lucid is also again making the amount of cars match the range of it(Rawlinson said over 440 dreams would be made.. i thought it was pretty obvious where he was going with that), meaning that it would be expensive/limited and MOST customers would want the air suspension anyways.

segbrk said:

I love a good tough looking SUV. Range Rovers are gorgeous to me, the R1S is pretty nice looking. You all might call me crazy, but I always loved the 90s Jeep Cherokee look. The problem is, these are all terrible designs for efficiency. I think I’m willing to accept some aero curves in exchange for much longer range, even though my heart calls for big sharp-cornered boxes. Still waiting to see the Gravity in person as well. The photos look a bit like you took a normal SUV and did this:
View attachment 18173
But to me the Air marketing pics looked weird as well. Owner photos look much better.

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Sort of like the flitty, floaty ads from Lucid, with the naked lady wearing nothing more than a sheet falling out of the sky. Couldn’t see the car for all that.

Bus Driver said:

Sort of like the flitty, floaty ads from Lucid, with the naked lady wearing nothing more than a sheet falling out of the sky. Couldn’t see the car for all that.

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I personally wouldn't mind if Everytime I got in the Gravity a naked lady would fall into my car...but that seems a little excessive for Lucid to introduce as a luxury amenity.

xponents said:

...like keeping the car flat with other tech coupled(try mercedes magic body control once... its RIDICULOUS)...

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Air suspensions are too slow to do those sort of things - you need hydraulics, which is how the Mercedes system worked. At the same time and with the same actuators, the hydraulic system replaces the car's anti-roll bars.

Also, you can't "tune out" hysteresis. It's a property of the air bag. Careful choice of the bags' polymer by its manufacturer can reduce hysteresis, but that's already been done, in a compromise with load bearing capability, size, and useful life.

hydbob said:

I personally wouldn't mind if Everytime I got in the Gravity a naked lady would fall into my car...but that seems a little excessive for Lucid to introduce as a luxury amenity.

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Careful what you wish for.

hydbob said:

I personally wouldn't mind if Everytime I got in the Gravity a naked lady would fall into my car...but that seems a little excessive for Lucid to introduce as a luxury amenity.

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Its all good until your wife asks if she can drop the kids to soccer practice this time..

xponents said:

. . . maintenance issues are good from a profit perspective. Those issues also usually happen later in the lifespan in the car, and are not constantly problematic which would be bad for the customer.

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In fifty years of owning cars, the only suspension issue I ever had other than routine wearing out of shock absorbers was the failure of the air suspension system in a Lexus RX330. The car had just gone out of warranty, and the repair was around $2400. (I have bought extended car warranties ever since when they were available from the manufacturer or dealer.) Lexus had already discontinued the air suspension option by the time mine failed, saying it did not sell well.

Bus Driver said:

Sort of like the flitty, floaty ads from Lucid, with the naked lady wearing nothing more than a sheet falling out of the sky. Couldn’t see the car for all that.

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This got me looking up Lucid Gravity ads. That is definitely one of the strangest automotive ads out there.

hmp10 said:

Ah . . . maybe this is the reason:

South Korean HL Group to Supply Autonomous Driving Components for Lucid Motors’ Gravity SUV

In a significant development for the autonomous driving industry, South Korea's HL Group, formerly known as Halla Group, has entered

evmagz.com

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“With the partnership with Lucid Motors, HL Group has now expanded its clientele to include all major North American EV manufacturers. HL Klemove is already supplying autonomous driving solutions to Rivian Automotive Inc., another prominent U.S. EV company, equipping approximately 80,000 vehicles, including electric pickup trucks R1T.”


I wonder if autonomous visualization will look the same as Rivian for Gravity.

hmp10 said:

In fifty years of owning cars, the only suspension issue I ever had other than routine wearing out of shock absorbers was the failure of the air suspension system in a Lexus RX330. The car had just gone out of warranty, and the repair was around $2400. (I have bought extended car warranties ever since when they were available from the manufacturer or dealer.) Lexus had already discontinued the air suspension option by the time mine failed, saying it did not sell well.

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My GL450 air suspension apparently had a leak at the passenger front wheel. That quarter of the car would be slammed after it sat overnight. Once I started the car, it would rise back up.

Just got an invitation for a private group viewing of the Gravity on the evening of March 5 at West Palm Beach. Public views will be March 6-13. No one will be allowed to enter the vehicle at any of the showings.

We're going to be there on the 5th and will make a second trip in the following days if any friends are interested.