Real world range?

[hmp10]

Wow @hmp10 talk about a need for a back up camera!

We've had to hold off on leaving more than once because a bear was sniffing along the garage doors. The gators just freeze if a car encounters them in the driveway. We've had standoffs that lasted several minutes waiting for one or the other of us to venture forward. The gators are actually very shy, but they will come to check out loud noises with which they're not familiar. ((Interestingly, they say frozen longer when confronted with our EV than with an ICE vehicle.) One time we cranked up a saw to cut some metal, and four gators we didn't even know were nearby in the lake popped to the surface and started swimming our way. They hung around the shoreline watching us until we were finished then slowly swam away.

 

[hmp10]

I’m only here 5 or 6 months during the winter.

Are you going to keep the Lucid down here or take it back and forth? I've been curious about how well EVs will take to prolonged stints of storage. When we only vacationed at our Florida home we tried leaving ICE cars down here and took all the storage steps that were suggested. But every time we came down after a few months' absence, the cars ended up in the shop for one repair or another. Brake discs would rust; seals would break down; the heat would kill batteries even with trickle chargers. We finally just gave up trying and used rental cars.

 

[Pete44]

Are you going to keep the Lucid down here or take it back and forth? I've been curious about how well EVs will take to prolonged stints of storage. When we only vacationed at our Florida home we tried leaving ICE cars down here and took all the storage steps that were suggested. But every time we came down after a few months' absence, the cars ended up in the shop for one repair or another. Brake discs would rust; seals would break down; the heat would kill batteries even with trickle chargers. We finally just gave up trying and used rental cars.

Sorry for delay in responding. Just saw this. We will probably leave the Lucid in CT, unless I love the car so much I can’t do without it! I used to ship a car back and forth but got too frustrated with transport. I also like a convertible for Florida so keep that down here. We hook up trickle chargers for our cars and home watch people back them out of garage every week or so. Haven’t had a problem. I leave my Tesla plugged in in CT. The home watch person there doesn’t want to touch it. The small battery died one year which was a pain. Other than that, no problems.

 

[hmp10]

I also like a convertible for Florida so keep that down here.

Funny you bring that up. I've had convertibles in both Chicago and Naples and found I drove with the tops down more in Chicago. With good cabin heating, I could drive top-down in Chicago for 8-9 months a year. The sun was so strong in Naples, even in "winter", that I wound up lowering the tops only from dusk onward but still found the heat and humidity could get grueling sitting at stoplights.

In fact, I bought my first Tesla in 2015 when I finally accepted that my Audi R8 spyder, with its superb handling and soft top, was of little use on Florida's flat, straight, steaming roads. The Tesla was actually quicker and its handling abilities well beyond the demands of the roadways down here.

If the Lucid's UV and IR blocking are what they claim to be, I'm hoping the Air's glass canopy will give me the best of both worlds: an airy open-feeling cockpit without the sunburn and humidity of a convertible in south Florida.

 

[Pete44]

Funny you bring that up. I've had convertibles in both Chicago and Naples and found I drove with the tops down more in Chicago. With good cabin heating, I could drive top-down in Chicago for 8-9 months a year. The sun was so strong in Naples, even in "winter", that I wound up lowering the tops only from dusk onward but still found the heat and humidity could get grueling sitting at stoplights.

In fact, I bought my first Tesla in 2015 when I finally accepted that my Audi R8 spyder, with its superb handling and soft top, was of little use on Florida's flat, straight, steaming roads. The Tesla was actually quicker and its handling abilities well beyond the demands of the roadways down here.

If the Lucid's UV and IR blocking are what they claim to be, I'm hoping the Air's glass canopy will give me the best of both worlds: an airy open-feeling cockpit without the sunburn and humidity of a convertible in south Florida.

I probably have the top down half the time we are in Florida. I was hoping an electric convertible that is actually functional (that eliminates the upcoming Tesla) would be available by now but I don’t see one in the works. It will be tough to make the economics work and forget range with top down.

 

[hmp10]

I was hoping an electric convertible that is actually functional (that eliminates the upcoming Tesla) would be available by now but I don’t see one in the works.

Fisker showed a concept EV convertible a year or two ago, but that was before all the chatter about the Ocean. And "functional" isn't exactly a word that springs to mind when talking about Fisker cars, anyway.

 

[hydbob]

Interestingly enough, they've updated their software to show estimated range better. When I first got the car, a full charge showed up as 561 mi. Now after charging full, it's showing 445 mi.
Performance 21" wheels

 

[hmp10]

In the Owner's Manual, Lucid recommends "for general use, set the slider to 'Daily' or 50% - 80%. This setting best preserves the battery pack life". They further warn that "charging beyond the recommended level too often can cause battery pack degradation."

Are you charging to 100% just occasionally to check range, or is there some other reason to fully charge?

 

[hydbob]

Going to be taking a 800 mile road trip over the holidays. Was the first time I charged it back up to 100% since taking delivery, so it was a surprise to me seeing the difference.

 

[hmp10]

Thanks. I was wondering if it was prep for a long trip.

We sometimes charge our Tesla more fully prior to a trip, but I know Tesla has a small buffer at the upper end. I've been a bit worried about trying the same thing with the Lucid ever since Tom Moloughney of "InsideEVs" said Lucid told him the 118-kWh pack had no buffers. I'm hoping someone's signals got crossed with that one.

 

[Lucken]

Going to be taking a 800 mile road trip over the holidays. Was the first time I charged it back up to 100% since taking delivery, so it was a surprise to me seeing the difference.

That difference can simply be the GOM (guess O meter for those unfamiliar with EVs) adjusting to your driving style and coming up with a more realistic range estimate. That's par for the course with EVs. Generally the highest range you'll see on a GOM is when the car is taken at ownership. The highest range I've ever seen on my Audi e-Tron is when I picked up the car at delivery.

 

[hmp10]

That difference can simply be the GOM (guess O meter for those unfamiliar with EVs) adjusting to your driving style and coming up with a more realistic range estimate. That's par for the course with EVs.

I don't understand the technology involved, but on one of his test drives with a Lucid engineer in the car, Kyle Conner of "Out of Spec Motoring" actually asked the engineer whether Lucid uses a "guess-o-meter" to gauge remaining range or takes a hard measure. The engineer responded that it was a hard measure.

 

[Lucken]

I don't understand the technology involved, but on one of his test drives with a Lucid engineer in the car, Kyle Conner of "Out of Spec Motoring" actually asked the engineer whether Lucid uses a "guess-o-meter" to gauge remaining range or takes a hard measure. The engineer responded that it was a hard measure.

First, I have no idea what he means by a 'hard measure'. I imagine you could make that claim of any GOM value since it's giving you an estimate at the time you glance at it. However gun the motor in a 0-60 time measurement and your GOM will look quite different afterwards. The point is the GOM #s are changing constantly. It becomes a function of acceleration, regeneration, temperature and many other factors. So what does 'hard measure' means? Sounds like mumbo jumbo to me.

 

[hmp10]

First, I have no idea what he means by a 'hard measure'.

It could be something like this, from http://www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/storage/measuring-the-capacity-of-a-battery/:

"In order to measure the stored energy in a battery a power resistor is used as the load, and a fully charged battery is fully discharged through it. By measuring the voltage across this resistor at regular intervals during the discharge process it is simple to calcuate the total energy dissipated and therefore the total energy which had been stored in the battery."

Since Lucid knows what the stored energy is in a fully-charged battery, measuring the energy used by the above method would enable a calculation at each interval of measurement of how much energy is remaining in the battery by subtracting the energy already dissipated. This would be a "hard measurement" rather than a guess inferred from other data.

 

[Lucken]

I’m not sure how others do it. Is this a unique approach or a common methodology? Who knows? But either way, because so many factors go into range at any particular section of a journey, I don’t see how it will be anything other than a guess at an instant in time. It’s really not much different than getting instantaneous MPG measurements in an ICE vehicle. Those too will change up & down numerous times as you continue a drive.

There’s probably no way to get a really accurate range value unless your trip is at a constant speed with no change in elevation, temperature etc. But I admit the accuracy is different in different EVs. I find the GOM in my e-Tron is better than it was in my I-Pace or Tesla. Of course the actual range sucks one way or the other.

 

[hmp10]

I think the difference here is whether we're talking about remaining range on the car or remaining energy in the battery. Our Tesla can be set to display either the miles remaining or the percent of charge remaining in the battery. It is the latter that can be captured by a "hard" measure and the former that uses inference from driving history.

There are all kinds of issues with using the remaining range display, including drift down of displayed range as the car is used. In a Tesla, you have to correct this with periodic recalibration by running the battery all the way down and recharging to 100%. If you keep the display set to percentage you do not encounter this problem. Consequently, we have gotten used to monitoring things based on percentage of charge remaining in the battery rather than a display metric that can wander all over the place.

 

[SaratogaLefty]

So I posted this question in another discussion but it does seem more relevant here. In the early MotorTrend video where Johnny and Peter drove from LA to SF, the article stated that one reason Peter's car got better range was because he was "Hypermilling". I'm curious what that really means, especially since most of the trip was on the freeway at a constant speed. Can someone elaborate on the techique with the Dream Edition please?

 

[Adnillien]

I don't understand the technology involved, but on one of his test drives with a Lucid engineer in the car, Kyle Conner of "Out of Spec Motoring" actually asked the engineer whether Lucid uses a "guess-o-meter" to gauge remaining range or takes a hard measure. The engineer responded that it was a hard measure.

I interpreted a hard measure to be State of Charge multiplied by some fixed range like EPA range. I assumed that a Guess-o-meter would be remaining charge in kWhr multiplied recent miles/kWhr. The errors come in from estimating SOC from voltage, adjusting for temperature and battery degradation.

Ideally you would measure current into and out of the battery but that is tricky and will always create some loss. Since batteries have virtually 100% coulombic efficiency, knowing the current in and current out gives a very precise SOC. I am not sure if any EV makers to do this since it is much easier to measure voltage.

 

[hydbob]

Drove from LA to Gilbert today. Averaged 2.9 to 3.0 mi/kwh. Conditions: rainy and around 55 degrees in LA. Sunny and 75 degrees when I stopped to charge in Buckeye. When I left at 100% car showed 445 mi. When I stopped to charge at 3% we had driven roughly 340 miles. Got some real world 294 kW at an EA station.

Also if you are near your car and it stays unlocked, it does show the SOC on both rear and front light bars as well as the charging animation.

 

[Paladin732]

Drove from LA to Gilbert today. Averaged 2.9 to 3.0 mi/kwh. Conditions: rainy and around 55 degrees in LA. Sunny and 75 degrees when I stopped to charge in Buckeye. When I left at 100% car showed 445 mi. When I stopped to charge at 3% we had driven roughly 340 miles. Got some real world 294 kW at an EA station.View attachment 355View attachment 356

Also if you are near your car and it stays unlocked, it does show the SOC on both rear and front light bars as well as the charging animation.

Yours is a p, 21 right? So 445 vs 451 epa?