Tesla Price Decrease

[HC_79]

Does anyone think Lucid is overpriced now that Tesla has dropped the price of its vehicles?

 

[Tesla2.0]

Lucid, Mercedes, and BMW are competing with Tesla regardless of what they may say, or believe.

Yes they are. Tesla MS & MX Q1 2023 dropped -58% delivery while M3 & MY gained +6% delivery. More stuff competition at higher price end products for Tesla.

 

[Edward]

I think Tesla can afford to sell their cars at a loss or breakeven point in the short term just to hurt their competition.

I now have my first EV, Zenith Red AT. I've ridden in my friends Tesla Y model and there is absolutely no comparison. Everything about my AT is, in my view, superior. So, I'd say emphatically, that Lucid justfies the higher price.

 

[ebr]

Lucid, Mercedes, and BMW are competing with Tesla regardless of what they may say, or believe.

Only in the eyes of people who will never actually purchase a Lucid, Mercedes or BMW (the flagship models of those brands).

 

[Volund]

Wow seeing this thread for the first time and finally catching up.

If you recall that Tesla increased prices a lot and they lowered it now, is not really a bargain if you actually compare apples to apples even with 7.5k tax credit. I looked at my Fisker Ocean Extreme vs a similarly equipped Model Y Performance with Auto Pilor, FSD and 7.5k tax rebate. On paper Model Y comes to 3k cheaper. Model Y lacks the dash in front of the steering, solar fully open roof, V2H, V2G, V2V bi-drectional CCS port and 303 Miles vs 350 miles AWD.

Likewise, none of the Tesla cars have V2H, V2G, V2V bi-directional CCS port like Lucid. None of them have radar, Lidar and Ultrasonic sensors. So, I guess you get what you pay for. Wait till Gravity comes and beats Model X in every metric and even take some of the Model S buyers.

Yes I agree completely. I'm also honestly surprised and not in agreement about the Sapphire move. They really want to have this dick measuring contest for fastest performing sedan in the world but that's not what the world needs right now and most people don't care.
Lucid Air is already winning multiple awards left and right and everyone knows it's a performance beast. However we need the SUV and to build more Pure's and get the car into more people's hands.
It's just more practical. I don't think a price drop for Lucid is the right move but instead to make cheaper models or even get the Pure closer to 60k with EV tax subsidies.

Yep - only in CA, but no where else. They are in their own little bubble.

Apparently same with Utah too cause I see Tesla's everywhere. No one ever turns heads for Tesla's anymore. And it's the first automotive company I've ever seen that is moving backwards in tech with every new year model. Now no USS and relying completely on their Vision based system. They say it's 'advanced' and try to market it that way in reality the consumer doesn't realize they're being shafted. Not having a front camera made me skeptical from the beginning. Not having surround view is just not a good experience, even in a S or X.

If you add HP and 0-60 the Tesla MS is even faster then the Touring, but similar. Range is also similar. So I think better compared to the Touring.

Why does everyone only consider the price and performance? Who cares? All EV's are relatively fast, the Air GT and performance models Achieves what it does with dual motors. All they really need is to add 1 more motor and you'll basically have better performance and numbers than all the other competition. Not sure why they made a whole new model 'Sapphire' to do it.

But the Lucid is a luxury car. Only comparing specs on paper is petty, you have to consider the luxury aspects, even the Model S or X don't have any way to adjust individual seat components. It's all 1 contiguous unit that just rotates together. For a 100k+ in all packages, is pretty sad.

But being inside a Lucid, driving it, ans being surrounded by the better materials is what makes it worth the extra 10-15k even before ssp and ddp

With so much fake leather and plastic in the Tesla, my Tesla's got super cold in the cabin very quickly when I would park in the winter for a short time. The materials didn't retain heat well and I noticed that immediately compared to the Lucid.

I haven’t been side Touring or Pure, but I’m still betting those trim levels still beat MS in cabin refinement and material grade quality. Above comparison chart cannot put metric of ride comfort and road noise insulation onto spreadsheet.

They 100% do. And agree with you completely. So many people dismiss the whole point of a luxury and exclusive vehicle. Pure is only missing the glass roof. Everything else it has and can definitely be compared to the Model S or even other Luxury cars in that segment.

I meant if lucid made an actually useful city driving, with lidar and all the sensors we have over teslas.

Tesla is ran by by an overgrown child. Elon would make decisions in the company based on Twitter polls. So they are the exact type of company to risk people's lives for clout and ego to say "we have City driving and you don't"

Lucid is taking the much more refined, safe, professional approach where they won't want to endanger the lives of thousands unnecessarily. And I think any grown adult with a moral compass would make the same decision.

And as I do say that, it's super convenient on the Tesla to do it, and I loved it, but most people who use it are not paying attention while using it. I was always keeping my hands tight on the wheel ready to take over at all intersections and turns In case the car did something stupid, which it did often.

Most people aren't attentive and that's where it matters. To be the responsible company that doesn't endanger the majority. Gotta put the foot down sometimes to polish the product.

I personally think that Tesla realized that their cars are over priced compared to the competition. Model S AWD is now priced below Pure AWD because they understand that
Pure AWD is better in every way. Pure RWD should compete well in its segment. The pricing of Model X AWD will dictate the starting price point of Gravity.

I'm hoping the Gravity does start at base around 100k to really compete in this segment.

20k more than Rivian, 5-10k more than Model X, it'll really start pulling market segment.

And that's not even considering the actual Luxury makers, but no one else has a 7/8 seater SUV right?

I wouldn't be opposed to Lucid dropping the prices to what they had during the earlier reservations. They did do a single price raise which I do think was not in the best taste. With that being said, they should be fighting hand and foot for the tax incentives at some model level. I'm more concerned about that over a general price war. Tesla and Lucid aren't playing the same ball game, nor is Mercedes/BMW/etc versus Tesla.

To be blunt, Tesla is just an EV equivalent of a Corolla with good software. If you want to call a Corolla an actual high end model, be my guest.. but you're wrong. I do not expect high end brands to compete with "Corolla" price drops.

I do expect Lucid to solidify sustainable cash burn/flow. If that means introducing a cheaper more mainstream model, then that's what needs to happen. If that means more battery supplier contracts or partnerships, then that needs to happen. There's a lot of avenues a company could take here.

While my Lucid was in the shop I was driving the Tesla Model 3 and noticed the suspension, bumps and road feeling was almost identical to my Hyundai Elantra 2013. That bad. So I 100% agree with you that Tesla is grossly overpriced and people give it way more credit than it deserves. Tesla's are so common here that no one bats an eye anymore. And that's here in Salt Lake City which isn't even a huge city comparatively.

I don't think it is correct to say "is better in every way". Based on range/acceleration it's more of match to the Touring. Yes, Lucid's interior is better, but Tesla charging network is second to none.

Again, I don't know why people just consider the range and acceleration. The EQS and other Luxury EV's wouldn't even be on the board if those were the only things that mattered. You have to look at the entire package deal. Can't nitpick what matters to you and group it in some categories it was never intended to compete in.

I do agree that the Touring is kind of an outlier, and Lucid should probably just focus on Pure and AGT and give Pure a glass a canopy option. It would help define the boundaries a bit better.

The range difference between Touring and Pure is 10 miles. That is nothing. Touring is more about HP and glass option. I always felt that Touring should be replaced by a lower end GT or a glass option in Pure. The charging network of CCS is improving while the charging network of Tesla will get overwhelmed by the number of Tesla cars on the road. In fact, I think we will see more Tesla cars using CCS in future with an adapter.

100% agree. Driving the Tesla around I'd occasionally go to the local super charger to top off. Not only was the charging abysmally slow, took me like 50 minutes to go from 30-80 and I was capped at like 80 kw on the new Model 3.
But the charging station filled up so fast with other Tesla's that people were sitting and waiting for more than 20 minutes to use the stall.
And I'm not even in a dense populated City. I can't even imagine big cities like in California what they are going through. Tesla has the super charging network out of necessity for their sheer numbers of commonplace cars on the road. And being a exclusive Model S or X owner doesn't save you any trouble when you're waiting for half an hour sometimes for your precious charging spot. I'd hate that.

But again the super charger network is not even a consideration for me in my purchase because 99% of the time I'm charging at home.

My road trips are few times per year and I'll charge with whatever is around me at the time. There's enough chargers that I went from DC to Utah. So I'm not worried about infrastructure. Just the speed of it currently. But things will get better.

 

[Drendino]

Lucid has said from day 1 they are not competing with Tesla. The uneducated consumer who is just looking at price may think that but that is not Lucid's game plan. Now, if Mercedes and BMW start dropping prices, then Lucid has to take note.

Excellent point. Lucid just needs to get their software on par with the German companies and then they can truely be a competitor. I actually think that they will be the luxury EV leader once they do this. Right now, their sales volume is just a rounding error of the competition.

 

[NewEnglander]

You

The Model S is literally no competition regarding interior build and quality. I'm not even sure how someone would come to that conclusion .. ever. Like seriously ever. It's not even a discussion point...

It's akin to comparing a Dennon receiver to a Trinnov processor. It's not even in the same ring for comparisons.

You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else is. And frankly if based upon what Lucid decides on prices and improving software quality, we will know after next quarter who is right. The markets value everything fairly.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Apparently the number of Tesla cars on the road in the US at the end of 2022 was 1.35M and there were 1700 charging stations. That is 800 Tesla cars per charging station. 40000 charging stalls in the US for Tesla. That is 33 Tesla cars per stall.

I understand your arithmetic but it doesn't mean anything to me without some comparative numbers. And if most people, at least in the US, charge mostly at home, the charging networks (EA, Tesla, etc.) are mostly needed for long trips so a proper comparison would be Tesla high speed charging stations per Tesla vs. other makes and chargers. At this point the analysis probably fails because one would have to group all the other car makers into one and then group all the other charging stalls into one.

 

[Drendino]

If you think the stock markets aren't corrupt or controlled, you're pretty naive, or maybe you just don't trade.

I day trade, and so I see how absurd some movements are even on the daily.

please DM me all of your picks and I’ll split the winnings with you. I’m a part of Jim Cramer’s investors group, but only for purposes of doing the opposite. I’m crushing it right now. Lol

 

[thecodingart]

You

You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else is. And frankly if based upon what Lucid decides on prices and improving software quality, we will know after next quarter who is right. The markets value everything fairly.

Materials used, level of quality, and overall interior cost is not really an opinion. You can call it an opinion, but you’re entirely wrong. You can do a 1:1 material breakdown and comparison and immediately find your comparing 2 very different things.

I have no idea what you’re noting regarding how the market plays out. This doesn’t play into any of my points¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[SubSailor]

Does anyone think Lucid is overpriced now that Tesla has dropped the price of its vehicles?

Well, a Model S for less than 85k is a pretty good deal. At this price point, I could have bought two Model S Tesla for the cost of my Air GT. I actually am looking at it as a backup for the Lucid. My Model 3 is 3 years old and I could go for all the Tesla software. I like getting in the car, hitting voice command and telling it I want to go to XXX and it loads into the car nav and off I go. I like the Sentry mode, the Dog mode and the navigation system alot in Tesla. I do think there are a multitude of Tesla software enhancements that Lucid would do well to copy and soon.

 

[HariK]

I understand your arithmetic but it doesn't mean anything to me without some comparative numbers. And if most people, at least in the US, charge mostly at home, the charging networks (EA, Tesla, etc.) are mostly needed for long trips so a proper comparison would be Tesla high speed charging stations per Tesla vs. other makes and chargers. At this point the analysis probably fails because one would have to group all the other car makers into one and then group all the other charging stalls into one.

All the CCS cars going to DCFC CCS are really the way to compare cars per port. When the so-called "free" charging is over, that is what it is. Those with CCS cars will go to whichever CCS charger meets their needs for L2 or L3 or DCFC. It will even out even more when CCS cars can be charged at Tesla and vice versa.

 

[Bus Driver]

Well, a Model S for less than 85k is a pretty good deal. At this price point, I could have bought two Model S Tesla for the cost of my Air GT. I actually am looking at it as a backup for the Lucid. My Model 3 is 3 years old and I could go for all the Tesla software. I like getting in the car, hitting voice command and telling it I want to go to XXX and it loads into the car nav and off I go. I like the Sentry mode, the Dog mode and the navigation system alot in Tesla. I do think there are a multitude of Tesla software enhancements that Lucid would do well to copy and soon.

I bag on our remaining Tesla all the time, our Model X100D. It rattles, it booms, it lurches, rumbles and grumbles in a cacophony of road and wind noise that make driving it a bit of a tedious chore. Especially compared to my placid and razor sharp Air GT. Routinely in the Model X, I have to set volume at least 6 out of 11 for podasts, and 7 for music, to really be able to hear anything. And as for my hearing impaired father, he can just forget about it.

However - when I get out of my Lucid and get right into our Tesla, I can immediately appreciate how polished the UI software is. It’s all really pretty slick. From getting directions, to selecting audio, to recording Dashcam videos, and setting Sentry Mode. It’s all of a piece, and most of it works really well. Even FSD, for as much as it terrifies me, hardly ever fails to impress.

And auto-lane changing, I particularly wish that Lucid would catch up to Tesla in that area. It’s so easy in the Tesla - check the next lane over, turn on your blinker, and watch it do its thing. No tugging at the steering wheel and then waiting for it to reconnect, It’s all planned and grand, and completely under your control. Using Navigation on Autopilot and letting the car do its own lane changing however, I’m not nearly as keen about that. Most times I cancel it because I don’t like “the decisions” the car makes.

Once Lucid catches up to Tesla in the area of software development and functional sophistication, and I have full faith they will, I’ll be even an happier and even more loyal Lucid owner.

 

[Viking]

Only in the eyes of people who will never actually purchase a Lucid, Mercedes or BMW (the flagship models of those brands).

I'll put myself out to disagree. I have a Tesla Model S 90D. Great car, but I'm really disappointed with the FSD I purchased. Interior is OK, but not up to Lucid standards. Oh, and by the way, I do have a confirmed order in for a Lucid Pure. But as I watch the Tesla price keep falling I'm also keeping an eye on Tesla. They do now offer a round wheel. I thought the yoke was a joke and would never buy that.

 

[ebr]

I'll put myself out to disagree. I have a Tesla Model S 90D. Great car, but I'm really disappointed with the FSD I purchased. Interior is OK, but not up to Lucid standards. Oh, and by the way, I do have a confirmed order in for a Lucid Pure. But as I watch the Tesla price keep falling I'm also keeping an eye on Tesla. They do now offer a round wheel. I thought the yoke was a joke and would never buy that.

I'll grant you that the lowest current trim level of Lucid is marginally competing with the highest trim level of Tesla (on fit/finish luxury, etc.) - so not the performance angle of the Plaid.

 

[Volund]

I'll grant you that the lowest current trim level of Lucid is marginally competing with the highest trim level of Tesla (on fit/finish luxury, etc.) - so not the performance angle of the Plaid.

If people cared that much about performance and range alone, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Genesis, and Audi wouldn't have a market.

People care about other stuff too, and that even includes brand loyalty. People who have been with Mercedes their whole life exist.

So I don't think it does justice to knock the Air Pure off the charts just because it doesn't have the same performance numbers or horsepower as the Model S

Maybe AWD is something that can be targeted instead, or something that people would care about more

 

[Bobby]

I am closing this discussion. We do not allow political posts on this forum and have deleted the offending posts. There are many places on the Internet for that. Please confine your discussions to Lucid Motors and the Lucid Air.