Tesla Price Decrease

[HC_79]

Does anyone think Lucid is overpriced now that Tesla has dropped the price of its vehicles?

 

[Viking]

I personally think that Tesla realized that their cars are over priced compared to the competition. Model S AWD is now priced below Pure AWD because they understand that
Pure AWD is better in every way. Pure RWD should compete well in its segment. The pricing of Model X AWD will dictate the starting price point of Gravity.

I don't think it is correct to say "is better in every way". Based on range/acceleration it's more of match to the Touring. Yes, Lucid's interior is better, but Tesla charging network is second to none.

 

[HariK]

I don't think it is correct to say "is better in every way". Based on range/acceleration it's more of match to the Touring. Yes, Lucid's interior is better, but Tesla charging network is second to none.

The range difference between Touring and Pure is 10 miles. That is nothing. Touring is more about HP and glass option. I always felt that Touring should be replaced by a lower end GT or a glass option in Pure. The charging network of CCS is improving while the charging network of Tesla will get overwhelmed by the number of Tesla cars on the road. In fact, I think we will see more Tesla cars using CCS in future with an adapter.

 

[NewEnglander]

We have an immediate family member who bought a Model S at peak 1 day before the first price drop. tesla did not give an refund, period. Sure they are pissed but Tesla stated would you take a price increase if we had increased price. Now is the tiem to buy cars, not sell.

Tesla is already the “California Camry” out here in San Diego. It is ubiquitous. Most people I talk to want something different already as the Tesla is way too common. I did see another rare Lucid in the wild yesterday! It was my GT’s twin parked out at Torrey Pines. Saw it while we were walking.

Are you speaking for Model S or 3/Y. 3/Y are ubiquitous, not S/X. and Model S/X aren't California camry. Lucid competes with S. We all can be Lucid fanboys and bash Tesla or be Tesla fanboys and bash Lucid but then it's not a balanced discussion. Model S at 85K can be a pretty steep competition for Pure AWD which today is at 92K (87,400 + 5000) with AWD added. Lucid may need to go back to pre increase pricing. The market has changed and prices are coming down for every commodity. Ignoring harsh reality can reduce sales and put Lucid in a tough position. Anyone who bought a car last year has to take a deep breath and accept that prices will reduce in the short term. But it shall pass. We are having Housing 2009 moment in car sales. On a positive side, most folks on this forum got 7500 EV discount from lucid or bought pre increase pricing so we are covered. Plus now, it's a great time to buy a new car.

 

[HariK]

Apparently the number of Tesla cars on the road in the US at the end of 2022 was 1.35M and there were 1700 charging stations. That is 800 Tesla cars per charging station. 40000 charging stalls in the US for Tesla. That is 33 Tesla cars per stall.

 

[thecodingart]

I don't think it is correct to say "is better in every way". Based on range/acceleration it's more of match to the Touring. Yes, Lucid's interior is better, but Tesla charging network is second to none.

The Pure is definitely a far better deal than today's Model S. On the competitive ground, software is the true advantage. Regarding Tesla's charging network, when charging was "free" back in the day, I'd say that there were "advantages" here. The fact of the matter is, v2 charging stations are relatively slow compared to 350 CCS chargers, Tesla charges are still unreliable (people just seem to talk much less about Tesla related quality issues than non-Tesla), it is exppppeeeennnsiiiiveee.. Tesla is constantly upping and modifying the prices on these bad boys and it is noticeably high if you don't have free credits. The main advantage to the supercharging network is simply the numbers, but that is rapidly changing with the gen 4 chargers and opening up to CCS charging. The world will get a taste, outside of Tesla, about the Supercharger's unreliability.. but we'll have an abundance of options to jump when a charger doesn't work.

 

[thecodingart]

Apparently the number of Tesla cars on the road in the US at the end of 2022 was 1.35M and there were 1700 charging stations. That is 800 Tesla cars per charging station.

To be fair, 90% of charging happens at home. So you're really looking at 135000 needing a charger at any given time making it closer to 80 cars per charging station.

But to play into the point, infrastructure still needs work everywhere and their network is about to get flooded with CCS compatibility being open loosing any exclusive advantages.

 

[Drendino]

To be fair, 90% of charging happens at home. So you're really looking at 135000 needing a charger at any given time making it closer to 80 cars per charging station.

As a total aside, I was at an EA yesterday and couldn’t charge partly because there was a Tesla, and in my favorite spot nonetheless. At first I was irritated, but then I remembered how pissed Tesla owners are that everyone can charge at Tesla chargers. So then, I just nodded my head and said “well played Tesla, well played”.

 

[Viking]

Lucid could try competing on making more features standard. Lane centering, surround view, for examples. These are available on many lesser priced, not EV cars. That would probably require a price cut on DDP, however. It will be interesting to see how they react. Tesla loves to move their price around. So how to avoid be crushed by the elephant is the question. I think it means being nimble. They cannot ignore this.

 

[thecodingart]

Lucid could try competing on making more features standard. Lane centering, surround view, for examples. These are available on many lesser priced, not EV cars. That would probably require a price cut on DDP, however. It will be interesting to see how they react. Tesla loves to move their price around. So how to avoid be crushed by the elephant is the question. I think it means being nimble. They cannot ignore this.

I would be great to see them "up" their game software wise. More normalized features (like lane centering and surround view) should be standard. They should be moving the ball towards more advanced things they haven't introduced yet and letting the other things trickle down.

 

[LCIDdreams]

Probably not. Because the economy is in the toilet.

Rivian beat their Q1 target I believe.

 

[LCIDdreams]

Tesla's numbers would have been even more abysmal if they did not cut. And if they don't cut even further, which they just did, cars just won't move.

Abysmal seems a strange take to me. They sold the most cars in a quarter ever, and in automotive, Q1 is typically a down quarter compared to the prior Q4. Overlaid with the current economic situation and I’m not even sure I would call it “bad”.

 

[ebr]

Lucid has said from day 1 they are not competing with Tesla. The uneducated consumer who is just looking at price may think that but that is not Lucid's game plan. Now, if Mercedes and BMW start dropping prices, then Lucid has to take note.

 

[Steveinarizona]

To be blunt, Tesla is just an EV equivalent of a Corolla with good software. If you want to call a Corolla an actual high end model, be my guest.. but you're wrong. I do not expect high end brands to compete with "Corolla" price drops.

+1 I describe it as an econobox with software.

 

[NewEnglander]

The Pure is definitely a far better deal than today's Model S. On the competitive ground, software is the true advantage. Regarding Tesla's charging network, when charging was "free" back in the day, I'd say that there were "advantages" here. The fact of the matter is, v2 charging stations are relatively slow compared to 350 CCS chargers, Tesla charges are still unreliable (people just seem to talk much less about Tesla related quality issues than non-Tesla), it is exppppeeeennnsiiiiveee.. Tesla is constantly upping and modifying the prices on these bad boys and it is noticeably high if you don't have free credits. The main advantage to the supercharging network is simply the numbers, but that is rapidly changing with the gen 4 chargers and opening up to CCS charging. The world will get a taste, outside of Tesla, about the Supercharger's unreliability.. but we'll have an abundance of options to jump when a charger doesn't work.

Regarding interiors, Between pure and Model S, Model s is superior especially given glass roof which is not even an option in Pure and requires more money even for touring With Touring, Model s is no match. Plus, Lucid is a much better driving car. Someone stated it correctly above. Lucid needs to improve software, period. If that happens, Lucid will eventually win though there will be short term pain with price changes.

Abysmal seems a strange take to me. They sold the most cars in a quarter ever, and in automotive, Q1 is typically a down quarter compared to the prior Q4. Overlaid with the current economic situation and I’m not even sure I would call it “bad”.

I actually agree. My point was price cut helped Tesla. Tesla has determined that EV car prices need to go down to get volume. And that's the game they are playing. Merc S and BMW 7 etc may be Lucid's competition but German manufacturers have bread and butter cheaper luxury vehicles too - 3 Series, C/E class to drive volume.

 

[thecodingart]

Regarding interiors, Between pure and Model S, Model s is superior especially given glass roof which is not even an option in Pure and requires more money even for touring With Touring, Model s is no match. Plus, Lucid is a much better driving car. Someone stated it correctly above. Lucid needs to improve software, period. If that happens, Lucid will eventually win though there will be short term pain with price changes.

I actually agree. My point was price cut helped Tesla. Tesla has determined that EV car prices need to go down to get volume. And that's the game they are playing. Merc S and BMW 7 etc may be Lucid's competition but German manufacturers have bread and butter cheaper luxury vehicles too - 3 Series, C/E class to drive volume.

The Model S is literally no competition regarding interior build and quality. I'm not even sure how someone would come to that conclusion .. ever. Like seriously ever. It's not even a discussion point...

It's akin to comparing a Dennon receiver to a Trinnov processor. It's not even in the same ring for comparisons.

 

[LCIDdreams]

The range difference between Touring and Pure is 10 miles. That is nothing. Touring is more about HP and glass option. I always felt that Touring should be replaced by a lower end GT or a glass option in Pure. The charging network of CCS is improving while the charging network of Tesla will get overwhelmed by the number of Tesla cars on the road. In fact, I think we will see more Tesla cars using CCS in future with an adapter.

It’s the opposite unfortunately, at least in the US. Rate of increase in CCS EV sales has been far outstripping the rate of increase in CCS chargers.

There is a hope that the federal funding will turn this around but whether that in itself in enough… who knows.

 

[joec]

Lucid could try competing on making more features standard. Lane centering, surround view, for examples. These are available on many lesser priced, not EV cars. That would probably require a price cut on DDP, however. It will be interesting to see how they react. Tesla loves to move their price around. So how to avoid be crushed by the elephant is the question. I think it means being nimble. They cannot ignore this.

This is actually a reasonable idea. Anything they can do to give customers more value without devaluing the car might be a good compromise. Especially since the hardware is being shipped in every car, anyway.

I'd also suggest they get a subscription model for both DDpro and SSPro as soon as possible. Keep a one-time purchase as an option, but also offer each for a reasonable monthly fee. Get extra revenue wherever they can from customers who otherwise will pass on these options.

But when it comes to the base price of the Air, I think people are overestimating how much margin Lucid has with each sale.

If it costs you $10 to make something and you sell it for $8, you will have less money the more of that item you sell. You are literally better off selling nothing than losing money on every sale.

Tesla is well known to have pretty big margins. Thus, their ability to drop prices whenever they feel like it. (This is nothing new. They change their prices several times a year. During the pandemic, the prices kept shooting up. Now they are coming back down.)

All this accomplishes is a shift in perception about the value of a Tesla car. The further that price drops, the more aware folks are that they have been getting overcharged for the car.

 

[Viking]

Lucid has said from day 1 they are not competing with Tesla. The uneducated consumer who is just looking at price may think that but that is not Lucid's game plan. Now, if Mercedes and BMW start dropping prices, then Lucid has to take note.

Lucid, Mercedes, and BMW are competing with Tesla regardless of what they may say, or believe.

 

[HariK]

It’s the opposite unfortunately, at least in the US. Rate of increase in CCS EV sales has been far outstripping the rate of increase in CCS chargers.

There is a hope that the federal funding will turn this around but whether that in itself in enough… who knows.

If Tesla installed 59% of all new chargers and sold 64% of all new EVs in the US are they barely keeping up?

 

[Tesla2.0]

EVGo and ChargePoint don’t have incentives of car sale to keep building DCFC stations, Tesla SCN does. Tesla needs to keep subsidizing to increase their SCN to bolster their sales other than their car price dropping The reality is SCN and infotech are their best selling points to range anxiety ICE drivers and GenerationX; price and quality are not. Tesla must adjust to market conditions as they are no longer the only game in town to have commanding profit margin.