Taycan Turbo GT goes 0-60 in 1.9, beating Lucid Air Sapphire

[xponents]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62454552/porsche-taycan-turbo-gt-0-to-60-mph-acceleration-record/

Well, Lucid, ball's in your court now! I suspect a set of R compound tires would help the Lucid to a degree, but the fantastic Porsche launch control system will be hard to beat. Insane time from the Porsche, especially with "only" two motors!

 

[hydbob]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62454552/porsche-taycan-turbo-gt-0-to-60-mph-acceleration-record/

Well, Lucid, ball's in your court now! I suspect a set of R compound tires would help the Lucid to a degree, but the fantastic Porsche launch control system will be hard to beat. Insane time from the Porsche, especially with "only" two motors!

Caveat is tires + special Weissach package. Still, impressive!

 

[hmp10]

Caveat is tires + special Weissach package. Still, impressive!

I'm confused about the caveat. The article said the car tested did not have the Weissach package.

 

[hydbob]

I'm confused about the caveat. The article said the car tested did not have the Weissach package.

Oh I got confused, ignore me.

 

[hmp10]

. . . ignore me.

Never.

 

[xponents]

Caveat is tires + special Weissach package. Still, impressive!

Definitely agreed! However, despite the stickier tires, the Turbo GT has a 340 mile range from a 105 kWh battery, which in Porsche terms, could be the same/higher in real world conditions. Meanwhile, the Lucid has 427 miles from a 118 kWh battery, which will likely mean that their real world ranges are within 10 miles of each other. Due there presumably being no loss in terms of range with the tires, I'm tempted to ignore that factor. The Turbo GT also almost certainly has better handling (this can't be definitively proven yet, though). However, the Lucid is also far more practical in the real world and is faster at higher speeds.

My final conclusion: A choice within these two cars will likely be driven by individual preferences. IMO, one is not better than the other!

 

[koflo]

Definitely agreed! However, despite the stickier tires, the Turbo GT has a 340 mile range from a 105 kWh battery, which in Porsche terms, could be the same/higher in real world conditions. Meanwhile, the Lucid has 427 miles from a 118 kWh battery, which will likely mean that their real world ranges are within 10 miles of each other. Due there presumably being no loss in terms of range with the tires, I'm tempted to ignore that factor. The Turbo GT also almost certainly has better handling (this can't be definitively proven yet, though). However, the Lucid is also far more practical in the real world and is faster at higher speeds.

My final conclusion: A choice within these two cars will likely be driven by individual preferences. IMO, one is not better than the other!

Oh there is no competition in the handling, the gen 1 taycan spanks any EV I’ve driven. It’s night and day and the lucid handles amazingly but it’s different leagues. Especially with rear wheel steer and pdcc.

 

[Andretex]

One is a sports car and the other a sedan that is comfortable with a huge backseat. I am sure if Lucid made a two door sports car, it could beat it.

Now, the Sapphire does 1.9 0 to 60. So did they ignore that? Why did they say 2.1 seconds?

 

[AlignTrex]

Couldn’t reproduce those numbers under their testing conditions. My Air is also supposedly a 400+ mile range under EPA conditions and I could never achieve those numbers.

 

[DrZorro]

This is when Lucid should actually compete more effectively by undercutting Porsche in price (which I think they honestly should have done to begin with). They need to drop the price of the Sapphire to the $150-170k and I bet they'd sell the hell out of them! Being slightly slower and not having the Porsche name badge on the front means they can't really justify being more expensive.

 

[hmp10]

The Turbo GT also almost certainly has better handling (this can't be definitively proven yet, though). However, the Lucid is also far more practical in the real world and is faster at higher speeds.

With a single rear motor, the Taycan won't be able to do the true torque vectoring the Sapphire can. So it'll be interesting to see whether other handling approaches with the Taycan offset that advantage. (I'm not saying they won't. I'm truly curious.). Rawlinson said in an interview a while back that the true torque vectoring allowed by two rear motors was more effective than rear-wheel steering. Also, the Sapphire has 1-millisecond cycling of its traction control, something that heretofore has been unmatched by close to a factor of ten. It'll be interesting to see what Porsche does in that realm.

Oh there is no competition in the handling, the gen 1 taycan spanks any EV I’ve driven. It’s night and day and the lucid handles amazingly but it’s different leagues. Especially with rear wheel steer and pdcc.

I see you have a Dream P. Have you driven a Sapphire in wide-ranging test conditions? I haven't, but I've read quite a few reviews by seasoned race drivers who use words such as "otherworldly" to describe the Sapphire's handling. I wonder if that leaves enough room for a night and day difference with the Taycan?

 

[SaratogaLefty]

Well we may find out soon. The Sapphire has been spotted at Nurburgring running laps. The EV record is held by a Taycan Turbo GT with the Weissach package. On Inside EV's website they indicate they don't believe the Sapphire can come close to that package so maybe we'll find out.

 

[Batteryman]

Even if the Sapphire is a few seconds slower, it’s a more remarkable engineering! It is a 5 seater saloon with a huge trunk, a huge frunk.

 

[momo3605]

This is when Lucid should actually compete more effectively by undercutting Porsche in price (which I think they honestly should have done to begin with). They need to drop the price of the Sapphire to the $150-170k and I bet they'd sell the hell out of them! Being slightly slower and not having the Porsche name badge on the front means they can't really justify being more expensive.

I suspect Lucid doesn’t actually want to sell Sapphires. It’s just a halo car for marketing. They may not have economies of scale on component pricing to do so.

Like you said they could make it super appealing by dropping the price to $150k. But instead they are happy selling <100 cars a year at $250k.

 

[Veritas51683]

It's kind of shocking the C&D couldn't get better than a 2.1 0-60 time out of a Sapphire considering they use a 1ft rollout in all their testing. I've recorded multiple runs on my Dragy with minimal prep posting better times without rollout, and several sub 2 second runs using rollout. I don't get it

 

[rfc805]

With a single rear motor, the Taycan won't be able to do the true torque vectoring the Sapphire can. So it'll be interesting to see whether other handling approaches with the Taycan offset that advantage. (I'm not saying they won't. I'm truly curious.). Rawlinson said in an interview a while back that the true torque vectoring allowed by two rear motors was more effective than rear-wheel steering. Also, the Sapphire has 1-millisecond cycling of its traction control, something that heretofore has been unmatched by close to a factor of ten. It'll be interesting to see what Porsche does in that realm.



I see you have a Dream P. Have you driven a Sapphire in wide-ranging test conditions? I haven't, but I've read quite a few reviews by seasoned race drivers who use words such as "otherworldly" to describe the Sapphire's handling. I wonder if that leaves enough room for a night and day difference with the Taycan?

I presume you're forgetting where the Taycan comes from? Porsche has been working on things like torque vectoring for a very, very long time. Their suspension engineering is if not the best in the world, among the best in the world. The Taycan already has PTV+ which is a mechanical variable torque vectoring solution. They also have had PDCC/PASM/etc since the beginning, but now also have Active Ride. They're also famous for their traction control, regardless of metrics - it's well known to be one of the best and most consistent systems especially in launch conditions, and with ICE engines as well.

Having both a Taycan CT4 and an Air GT, the Taycan is quite far ahead in handling. The Sapphire has its rear torque vectoring, but it's not going to make up for the difference in chassis dynamics/suspension engineering that has the Taycan ahead.

All this is not to say the Taycan is a better car, but - it's not a good battle to pick, and definitely thinking Porsche is an underdog in suspension/handling/traction control to anything is a mistake.

 

[hydbob]

I presume you're forgetting where the Taycan comes from? Porsche has been working on things like torque vectoring for a very, very long time. Their suspension engineering is if not the best in the world, among the best in the world. The Taycan already has PTV+ which is a mechanical variable torque vectoring solution. They also have had PDCC/PASM/etc since the beginning, but now also have Active Ride. They're also famous for their traction control, regardless of metrics - it's well known to be one of the best and most consistent systems especially in launch conditions, and with ICE engines as well.

Having both a Taycan CT4 and an Air GT, the Taycan is quite far ahead in handling. The Sapphire has its rear torque vectoring, but it's not going to make up for the difference in chassis dynamics/suspension engineering that has the Taycan ahead.

All this is not to say the Taycan is a better car, but - it's not a good battle to pick, and definitely thinking Porsche is an underdog in suspension/handling/traction control to anything is a mistake.

Honestly, the fact that you can put Lucid and Porsche in the same conversation is a testament to the Lucid team.

 

[rfc805]

No argument there. Though if you step out of their EVs, the conversation gets a bit one-sided. Of course we also start talking about cars that cost a lot more than the Sapphire.

 

[Sid432]

It's kind of shocking the C&D couldn't get better than a 2.1 0-60 time out of a Sapphire considering they use a 1ft rollout in all their testing. I've recorded multiple runs on my Dragy with minimal prep posting better times without rollout, and several sub 2 second runs using rollout. I don't get it

May be you can teach them how to get 0-60 in < 2 seconds

 

[hmp10]

I presume you're forgetting where the Taycan comes from? . . . it's not a good battle to pick, and definitely thinking Porsche is an underdog in suspension/handling/traction control to anything is a mistake.

Your presumption is wrong. My memory is intact.

And I'm not trying to pick a battle. You either deliberately ignored or failed to understand that I was just asking an agenda-free question about whether Porsche's approach to torque vectoring with a single rear motor would work as well as Lucid's approach using two rear motors. That was why I wrote in my post, "I'm not saying they won't. I'm truly curious."

At least you did actually respond to the question, for which I thank you.