Still wavering on the fence

[hmp10]

It’s not as open and airy as my Model S (but I realize you don’t want a Tesla): Visibility on the front quarter is a struggle because the A-pillar is too thick, and the side windows are too narrow and create a slightly confined feeling.

That's a very even-handed review of the Air. However, this point about openness did surprise me a bit. It's not that what you said about the A-pillar and side windows isn't accurate, because it is. But, to me and most passengers in the Air, the glass canopy creates a feeling of openness that is lacking from our Model S and that should be belied by the things you point out. Although our Model S has a full glass roof, the heavy beam across the top of the windshield causes front seat passengers to miss the effect altogether. What is surprising is that the Air has a cross beam at the B-pillar whereas the Tesla doesn't . . . yet rear seat passengers have repeatedly brought up the open-air effect of the Lucid canopy, while none have ever mentioned it in the Tesla. (It's a little odd, now that I think of it.) Maybe the combination of the black interior and the cramped rear seating of the Tesla work against the sense of openness they get in the Air with its light interior and stretch-out room?

 

[Jim2877]

They wont be out of business. The Saudi's have deep pockets and, if nothing else, they would be sold to another automaker for their tech and production facilities. Lucid would make a nice luxury nameplate for a legacy automaker. However, I don't think that would happen.

Read what I was responding to. I was being sarcastic to what DeaneG wrote. If I thought that, I wouldn't have bought the car or their stock.

 

[MorganB]

It will be interesting to see if the Touring or Pure with a solid roof feels enclosed.

 

[Mountain Man]

That's a very even-handed review of the Air. However, this point about openness did surprise me a bit. It's not that what you said about the A-pillar and side windows isn't accurate, because it is. But, to me and most passengers in the Air, the glass canopy creates a feeling of openness that is lacking from our Model S and that should be belied by the things you point out. Although our Model S has a full glass roof, the heavy beam across the top of the windshield causes front seat passengers to miss the effect altogether. What is surprising is that the Air has a cross beam at the B-pillar whereas the Tesla doesn't . . . yet rear seat passengers have repeatedly brought up the open-air effect of the Lucid canopy, while none have ever mentioned it in the Tesla. (It's a little odd, now that I think of it.) Maybe the combination of the black interior and the cramped rear seating of the Tesla work against the sense of openness they get in the Air with its light interior and stretch-out room?

My Model S has the light tan interior and glass sunroof that opens. To me it feels more open and spacious than the Lucid. Part of that is the windshield in the Tesla is more upright, and the side windows are larger, which creates more outward visibility. I personally find that the slope of the glass roof of the Lucid Air feels more encroaching (to me, the driver). From the backseat, people definitely feel like it is open and airy.

 

[hydbob]

My Model S has the light tan interior and glass sunroof that opens. To me it feels more open and spacious than the Lucid. Part of that is the windshield in the Tesla is more upright, and the side windows are larger, which creates more outward visibility. I personally find that the slope of the glass roof of the Lucid Air feels more encroaching (to me, the driver). From the backseat, people definitely feel like it is open and airy.

Interesting because the model s is 1 inch taller...

 

[hmp10]

It will be interesting to see if the Touring or Pure with a solid roof feels enclosed.

I have a feeling they will. Mountain Man was right about the thick A-pillars and high belt line / low roof rails. It's the glass canopy that gives the Air whatever sense of "airiness" it has. As I've posted above, I feel it is quite "airy" with the glass canopy. But I also think it will feel rather claustrophobic without it.

 

[n8236]

Have my Pure (original price) on order and am wavering because replication of Tesla’s success requires a lot of vision, luck, and $. I don’t know if Peter has sold me on that just yet.

I’m a young professional that plans on starting a family soon and this isn’t the ideal car for that, though it will work. Coming from a euro-delivery 2015 BMW 428i coupe, I’m emotionally attached to it but know I have to let go. But because my job is mostly wfh (IT field), i don’t know if it warrants my need for range as I can go a lot cheaper.

 

[joec]

I have a feeling they will. Mountain Man was right about the thick A-pillars and high belt line / low roof rails. It's the glass canopy that gives the Air whatever sense of "airiness" it has. As I've posted above, I feel it is quite "airy" with the glass canopy. But I also think it will feel rather claustrophobic without it.

That was my feeling, sitting in the Air for the first time. That it would feel claustrophobic without the glass canopy. The side windows are rather short. Same with the rear window. Most of the height on the sides is door, not window.

The thick A pillars I'm used to from the Model 3, but the angle is definitely different.

 

[DBV]

My Model S has the light tan interior and glass sunroof that opens. To me it feels more open and spacious than the Lucid. Part of that is the windshield in the Tesla is more upright, and the side windows are larger, which creates more outward visibility. I personally find that the slope of the glass roof of the Lucid Air feels more encroaching (to me, the driver). From the backseat, people definitely feel like it is open and airy.

Agree with you on this. I think the Model S feels very open with the roof and so do my passengers. Also think think there is plenty of back seat room too, especially compared to my former BMW 5 Series.

I do think the Lucid feels very open too and has good back seat room.

 

[Vik2002]

How do folks think the resale value will be for the GT and touring. Will it hold its value as well as Tesla in a few years?

I am in same boat as OP - thinking if I should upgrade to AGT or abandon Air completely. Tough decision!

 

[CLTGT]

Holding its' value will depend greatly on what Lucid does over the next year or two.

 

[hmp10]

Agree with you on this. I think the Model S feels very open with the roof and so do my passengers. Also think think there is plenty of back seat room too, especially compared to my former BMW 5 Series.

I do think the Lucid feels very open too and has good back seat room.

We had the cream interior in our 2015 Model S and now have the black interior in our Model S Plaid. Even though the 2015 car had a metal roof and the Plaid has a glass roof, the interior of the older car felt more open. I do think interior color has a lot to do with the interior space vibe.

However, I find the difference in rear seat room between the Air and the Model S to be vast. A few months ago as part of responding to a YouTube review I took a few measurements. All of them showed our Air to have significantly more leg room both front and rear than our new Model S Plaid. I won't go over all the details again here, but one measurement stood out the most. With the driver seats of our Air and Plaid both set to my normal driving position, there was 9.5" more front-to-back space in the rear floorboard of the Air than the Tesla. In the context of car interior dimensions where fractions of an inch are hailed as significant, that is a gigantic difference. And it's the reason we always take the Air when picking up friends for an outing. In the Air, we can both leave our front seats where we prefer. In the Tesla, the front seat passenger has to pull the seat forward so that the taller of the rear seat passengers can find enough foot room on that side of the car.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

Just my personal experience. I got HRE p101sc’s. My OEM wheels weighed in at around 38 lbs. The HRE’s came in around 23. The effects of reducing that 60 lbs of unsprung weight have been astonishing. I just did the wheel swap for cosmetic reasons and didn’t expect much else. Super pleased. Will post a separate thread with a more thorough review as don’t want to hijack this one.

Hokie Smokes Batman! $15,000 for wheels that cut your range (you had to pay taxes, yes? and tires, did you put tires on or are you riding on the rims? so tires, mounting, etc... then a tire rack rack to store the extra set of wheels... whew...you're getting close to a used Miata/Boxter if you want a pure joy sport car.

Yes I know about the quite noticeable handling difference dropping even just a few lbs/wheel makes, (having done this on '06 V70R wagon...wow you can tell right away) but that's not why I bought this car. The HRE wheels are beautiful (the Lucid stock wheel choices, not so much)...not saying I will not do the same...but having driven the demo with stock 21" Lucid wheels... drives like a (fat) sports car. Of course, I did not "toss it" into corners, so what do I know? No worries. This is a seriously nice driver's car as built. Ordered mine (25/12/21) with 19" (skier). Yea, now you got me thinking I need summer tires with HREs. dammit.

P101SC forged monoblock ... starting at over $3000 each! Lots of drag. Super strong. Super lightweight.

Funny thing about my demo ride...the associate was all excited to make me: "...now floor it!" but again, not why I bought the car. Yea the instant torque is nice, but, I drove up from Philly in an AMG E63s. I"m jaded. Power corrupts.

I think Peter is correct in his philosophy...it's not a dragster and nothing that heavy is ever going to feel Miata, but instant overtake on the turnpike = yes please! Range and truck passing I can use. Beauty is important to me too...hummm.....

To your point...even on a 2400 Kg car, cutting un-sprung weight makes a noticeable handling difference, even during everyday driving.

Thanks for your post.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

What finally tipped your decision to buy the Air, or to look elsewhere instead?

The whole car design, from the engineering to the interior, are just a whole level above everything else.
Tesla interiors are K-Mart.
Mercedes are a kludge.
Porsche has the range of a golf cart.

Know what I like so much: it doesn't look like it has a laptop sitting on the dash. Screw that. Who thinks that's attractive and not distracting? Oh...computer gamers I guess. This is a driver's car and you can tell a driver had the last word, not a software engineer. Thank you Peter.


There really is no competition for the Lucid.

 

[MoniputerLM]

The whole car design, from the engineering to the interior, are just a whole level above everything else.
Tesla interiors are K-Mart.
Mercedes are a kludge.
Porsche has the range of a golf cart.

Know what I like so much: it doesn't look like it has a laptop sitting on the dash. Screw that. Who thinks that's attractive and not distracting? Oh...computer gamers I guess. This is a driver's car and you can tell a driver had the last word, not a software engineer. Thank you Peter.


There really is no competition for the Lucid.

I disagree. There is a lot of good design in the powertrain but software in modern cars is an integral part of the driving experience and so far, Lucid get a big fat "F". My C8 Corvette has a lot of software controlling the entire driving experience and works very well! Also, I think that a good "driver's car" would have physical buttons to control more options so that you don't need to look for a button on a screen or talk to your car.

My DE drives well but I don't want it to be a "track car". I still need to open the garage door, listen to music, use the NAV system, answer phone calls, and a bunch of other things that, it the moment, are tedious at best in my car. IMHO, my 2018 Navigator has a far better cabin layout than the Lucid. They could have done a better job and IF the automotive engineers get together with the software team and create a cohesive experience, then the car will be much better.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

@DeaneG when calculating range have you considered that you likely wont get the 500mi range? Leave 5-10% buffer, 85% actual efficiency unless you drive like EPA, 5-15% battery degradation.. that 500mi will be more like 400mi practical range.

There are ways to extend your battery range and life, like not fully charging / discharging. We should consider that the 500 mile range is a marketing thing. Even so, 85% of 500 miles discharged to 20% = close to 300 miles... gets me to the Poconos in the winter and the shore in the summer, and back home, on one fill-up. = that is a ton of PRACTICAL range. All EVs are great for commutes...they aren't all great for long trips without access to chargers. I'm going places with my Lucy ... in luxury and with peace of mind. It's not just another golf cart.

I expect this will be my last car, and I expect it to last.

That said...battery technology is getting lots of attention. Our cars could be out-dated in five years.
Nobody expected a 500 mile rage electric car this soon, just like nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Have my Pure (original price) on order and am wavering because replication of Tesla’s success requires a lot of vision, luck, and $. I don’t know if Peter has sold me on that just yet.

I’m a young professional that plans on starting a family soon and this isn’t the ideal car for that, though it will work. Coming from a euro-delivery 2015 BMW 428i coupe, I’m emotionally attached to it but know I have to let go. But because my job is mostly wfh (IT field), i don’t know if it warrants my need for range as I can go a lot cheaper.

I am a BMW driver also (2018 530e) and would have loved to stay with BMW. I even test drove the IX. But, to me, BMW has completely lost its design chops and the new BMWs, including the IX and I4 are ugly. Unless the new (i.e., not yet released) I5 is somehow different, BMW is not in my future.

As of now, the Lucid Air Pure is my first choice and I am waiting for them to get to me. If they don't figure out these startup issues, I have also reserved an AWD Cadillac Lyriq as a backup option.

 

[Thinjake]

I still need to open the garage door, listen to music, use the NAV system, answer phone calls, and a bunch of other things that, it the moment, are tedious at best in my car. IMHO, my 2018 Navigator has a far better cabin layout than the Lucid. They could have done a better job and IF the automotive engineers get together with the software team and create a cohesive experience, then the car will be much better.

I guess I don't see the big deal here...no car satisfies everyone or everything. I have a Jag XF...a company that has been around forever! Guess what? I still use the garage clicker from the garage door company. Why? My Jag's homelink (as well as my MB's and my Audi's) were glitchy and a PITA! WAY easier to use clicker.

NAV system? Same....never used the cars....iPhone or WAZE. On top of my Jag (and MB and Audi), my wife's brand new GV80 still sucks! So we still use the iphone.

Music and phone? I will admit my Jag's bluetooth works well for both music and phone.

But in the end, THIS IS A CAR! I am buying this because of the CAR and the way it drives, it's range and its looks.

 

[MPawelek]

I guess I don't see the big deal here...no car satisfies everyone or everything. I have a Jag XF...a company that has been around forever! Guess what? I still use the garage clicker from the garage door company. Why? My Jag's homelink (as well as my MB's and my Audi's) were glitchy and a PITA! WAY easier to use clicker.

NAV system? Same....never used the cars....iPhone or WAZE. On top of my Jag (and MB and Audi), my wife's brand new GV80 still sucks! So we still use the iphone.

Music and phone? I will admit my Jag's bluetooth works well for both music and phone.

But in the end, THIS IS A CAR! I am buying this because of the CAR and the way it drives, it's range and its looks.

I am the same. I love to drive my cars and do not use 95% of the “improvements“. Cruise control and occasionally music is all I need.

 

[SDHacker]

I’m a young professional that plans on starting a family soon and this isn’t the ideal car for that, though it will work.

What attributes makes a vehicle the ideal one for a young professional starting a family? It has plenty of storage. Plenty of room for passengers. Rear doors open wide not just for ease of entry for old people but getting car seats in and out, getting kids in and out. As shown by a couple of members, back seat can accommodate 3 car seats so has room for an expanding young family. If you are looking for the "ideal" in utility for a family, it's a minivan. Sliding side doors so you get full access even in tight parking spaces and you have to get your kid in their seat or help buckle them in.