Reduced fast charging performance

[Shane_SLC]

Greetings all,

I just wanted to share some odd charging behavior I've noticed with my car at DCFC stations. I've included a table documenting a recent 6-80% SoC charging session preceded by some context and my thoughts. For reference, my car is a 2023 Touring produced in January 2023. If anyone has seen similar behavior or have any thoughts I would love to hear it!

I first noticed oddly low DCFC speeds about a month ago. I've seen peak charging speeds of 290kW+ several times with my car, but on the last couple of long distance road trips I've taken the highest I've seen is around 235kW at <10% SoC, even after 30+ minutes of preconditioning. It also seems like the curve dips below 150kW about 10% SoC sooner than it used to. This shift seems to have occurred sometime between the beginning of August and October. It's also worth noting that this behavior has been repeatable across multiple 350kW Electrify America stations and a couple of EVgo stations. Ambient temperatures have typically been between 40-80F, usually around 60-70F. The battery has always been preconditioned for 40-45 minutes automatically via the route planner, or manually for at least 30 minutes. Since I've noticed this behavior I have not seen the "Charging speed limited by station" message, so I'm fairly certain the cause is the car and not the charging station, temperature, etc. The table below shows my most recent DCFC session at a 350kW EVgo unit. I noticed that during the charging session the voltage stayed relatively constant from around 700-725v, so no issues there.

So why the sudden change in DCFC behavior? So far I have three theories, the first being battery degradation. I've driven my car farther and harder than most other owners (I assume), and I'm sitting at 16,600 miles after 7 months of ownership. While I've maintained the recommended 80% daily SoC limit and tried not to go below 20% too often, there's been plenty of times I've charged to 100% for long distance travel and been as low as 3% a handful of times. Using the car's range estimate it claims I can travel 367 miles on 100% SoC. This would equate to a 4.5% loss in battery capacity (367 current max range / 384 inital max range on 20" wheels). Given how much I've driven the car already this doesn't seem too far off of estimates I've seen staying to expect a loss of 1-2% capacity per year. I'm not sure why this would cause such a noticeable change in charging behavior, but I thought it was worth noting.

My second theory is that recent software updates to the car have affected the charging curve in some way. This shift I've described occurred sometime between August and October, during which time no major changes in mileage occurred. I'm not sure if a software update even could affect the charging behavior this way, but if anyone else has noticed something similar maybe it's worth investigating. My last and most likely theory would be some kind of hardware or BMS issue with my car. I did almost get stranded in Battle Mountain, NV this summer due to a known issue with ABB units, so I've definitely experienced significant charging issues with my car before.

Thanks for reading! I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts or theories you might have. If this seems to be an isolated issue I will probably forward this issue to Lucid to see what they think. While this issue is relatively minor (especially now that road trip season is ending) and the reduction in charging speed realisically only adds 5-10 minutes of charging, the high charging speeds was something I really appreciated on long road trips. Now I feel like I can barely charge faster than an ID4.

SoC​	kW​
7%​	232​
10%​	205​
15%​	176​
20%​	164​
25%​	153​
30%​	143​
35%​	136​
40%​	128​
45%​	116​
50% (16 mintues)​	104​
55% ​	93​
60%​	84​
65%​	75​
70% (30 minutes)​	67​
75%​	59​
80% (40.5 minutes)​	50​

 

[hydbob]

Greetings all,

I just wanted to share some odd charging behavior I've noticed with my car at DCFC stations. I've included a table documenting a recent 6-80% SoC charging session preceded by some context and my thoughts. For reference, my car is a 2023 Touring produced in January 2023. If anyone has seen similar behavior or have any thoughts I would love to hear it!

I first noticed oddly low DCFC speeds about a month ago. I've seen peak charging speeds of 290kW+ several times with my car, but on the last couple of long distance road trips I've taken the highest I've seen is around 235kW at <10% SoC, even after 30+ minutes of preconditioning. It also seems like the curve dips below 150kW about 10% SoC sooner than it used to. This shift seems to have occurred sometime between the beginning of August and October. It's also worth noting that this behavior has been repeatable across multiple 350kW Electrify America stations and a couple of EVgo stations. Ambient temperatures have typically been between 40-80F, usually around 60-70F. The battery has always been preconditioned for 40-45 minutes automatically via the route planner, or manually for at least 30 minutes. Since I've noticed this behavior I have not seen the "Charging speed limited by station" message, so I'm fairly certain the cause is the car and not the charging station, temperature, etc. The table below shows my most recent DCFC session at a 350kW EVgo unit. I noticed that during the charging session the voltage stayed relatively constant from around 700-725v, so no issues there.

So why the sudden change in DCFC behavior? So far I have three theories, the first being battery degradation. I've driven my car farther and harder than most other owners (I assume), and I'm sitting at 16,600 miles after 7 months of ownership. While I've maintained the recommended 80% daily SoC limit and tried not to go below 20% too often, there's been plenty of times I've charged to 100% for long distance travel and been as low as 3% a handful of times. Using the car's range estimate it claims I can travel 367 miles on 100% SoC. This would equate to a 4.5% loss in battery capacity (367 current max range / 384 inital max range on 20" wheels). Given how much I've driven the car already this doesn't seem too far off of estimates I've seen staying to expect a loss of 1-2% capacity per year. I'm not sure why this would cause such a noticeable change in charging behavior, but I thought it was worth noting.

My second theory is that recent software updates to the car have affected the charging curve in some way. This shift I've described occurred sometime between August and October, during which time no major changes in mileage occurred. I'm not sure if a software update even could affect the charging behavior this way, but if anyone else has noticed something similar maybe it's worth investigating. My last and most likely theory would be some kind of hardware or BMS issue with my car. I did almost get stranded in Battle Mountain, NV this summer due to a known issue with ABB units, so I've definitely experienced significant charging issues with my car before.

Thanks for reading! I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts or theories you might have. If this seems to be an isolated issue I will probably forward this issue to Lucid to see what they think. While this issue is relatively minor (especially now that road trip season is ending) and the reduction in charging speed realisically only adds 5-10 minutes of charging, the high charging speeds was something I really appreciated on long road trips. Now I feel like I can barely charge faster than an ID4.

SoC​	kW​
7%​	232​
10%​	205​
15%​	176​
20%​	164​
25%​	153​
30%​	143​
35%​	136​
40%​	128​
45%​	116​
50% (16 mintues)​	104​
55%​	93​
60%​	84​
65%​	75​
70% (30 minutes)​	67​
75%​	59​
80% (40.5 minutes)​	50​

That's odd, I've gotten much higher speeds at similar SOC. Though, starting from 7 gets the batteries super hot very fast. Send this to CS so they can add it to their data.

 

[Adnillien]

I would suspect some sort of thermal management issue that is limiting battery cooling during fast charging. I agree with the recommendation to email your table to customer care and ask them to look at it.

 

[Andretex]

Your charging curve is very similar to what I normally see. My touring has 3,000 miles. Therefore, it must be the software that limits the charge in order to preserve the battery.

 

[borski]

Greetings all,

I just wanted to share some odd charging behavior I've noticed with my car at DCFC stations. I've included a table documenting a recent 6-80% SoC charging session preceded by some context and my thoughts. For reference, my car is a 2023 Touring produced in January 2023. If anyone has seen similar behavior or have any thoughts I would love to hear it!

I first noticed oddly low DCFC speeds about a month ago. I've seen peak charging speeds of 290kW+ several times with my car, but on the last couple of long distance road trips I've taken the highest I've seen is around 235kW at <10% SoC, even after 30+ minutes of preconditioning. It also seems like the curve dips below 150kW about 10% SoC sooner than it used to. This shift seems to have occurred sometime between the beginning of August and October. It's also worth noting that this behavior has been repeatable across multiple 350kW Electrify America stations and a couple of EVgo stations. Ambient temperatures have typically been between 40-80F, usually around 60-70F. The battery has always been preconditioned for 40-45 minutes automatically via the route planner, or manually for at least 30 minutes. Since I've noticed this behavior I have not seen the "Charging speed limited by station" message, so I'm fairly certain the cause is the car and not the charging station, temperature, etc. The table below shows my most recent DCFC session at a 350kW EVgo unit. I noticed that during the charging session the voltage stayed relatively constant from around 700-725v, so no issues there.

So why the sudden change in DCFC behavior? So far I have three theories, the first being battery degradation. I've driven my car farther and harder than most other owners (I assume), and I'm sitting at 16,600 miles after 7 months of ownership. While I've maintained the recommended 80% daily SoC limit and tried not to go below 20% too often, there's been plenty of times I've charged to 100% for long distance travel and been as low as 3% a handful of times. Using the car's range estimate it claims I can travel 367 miles on 100% SoC. This would equate to a 4.5% loss in battery capacity (367 current max range / 384 inital max range on 20" wheels). Given how much I've driven the car already this doesn't seem too far off of estimates I've seen staying to expect a loss of 1-2% capacity per year. I'm not sure why this would cause such a noticeable change in charging behavior, but I thought it was worth noting.

My second theory is that recent software updates to the car have affected the charging curve in some way. This shift I've described occurred sometime between August and October, during which time no major changes in mileage occurred. I'm not sure if a software update even could affect the charging behavior this way, but if anyone else has noticed something similar maybe it's worth investigating. My last and most likely theory would be some kind of hardware or BMS issue with my car. I did almost get stranded in Battle Mountain, NV this summer due to a known issue with ABB units, so I've definitely experienced significant charging issues with my car before.

Thanks for reading! I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts or theories you might have. If this seems to be an isolated issue I will probably forward this issue to Lucid to see what they think. While this issue is relatively minor (especially now that road trip season is ending) and the reduction in charging speed realisically only adds 5-10 minutes of charging, the high charging speeds was something I really appreciated on long road trips. Now I feel like I can barely charge faster than an ID4.

SoC​	kW​
7%​	232​
10%​	205​
15%​	176​
20%​	164​
25%​	153​
30%​	143​
35%​	136​
40%​	128​
45%​	116​
50% (16 mintues)​	104​
55%​	93​
60%​	84​
65%​	75​
70% (30 minutes)​	67​
75%​	59​
80% (40.5 minutes)​	50​

Can I just say: thanks for posting something useful, with data, that asks for feedback? This Is the kind of posting we want to see here. Useful, raises good questions, and so on.

This could have just as easily been written as a "WTF, why does Lucid suck at charging, their batteries are degrading, and I want compensation" or some other such nonsense.

So anyway, thanks for a model post.

 

[Shane_SLC]

Your charging curve is very similar to what I normally see. My touring has 3,000 miles. Therefore, it must be the software that limits the charge in order to preserve the battery.

Interesting. How long have you had your car for?

 

[Andretex]

Interesting. How long have you had your car for?

For 2 months

 

[Shane_SLC]

For 2 months

That lines up with when I first noticed the shift, so maybe it really is software related. Thanks for sharing!

 

[LALucid]

I am also seeing this reduced charging speeds similar to the curve posted above. Thinking about taking it to Lucid to have it checked out.

 

[suchluke]

I can also confirm that I see very similar charging curve in my Pure AWD. I had the car since 9/29, so I can't compare to how it behaved previously. The car has currently around 1,700 miles and I charged several times already at various EA stations. Each time battery preconditioned for 20-30 minutes. Charging SOC from anywhere 15%-20% to 80% and my results are almost exactly the same as what you have posted in the table. I always thought that it seemed rather slow compared to my Tesla Model 3. One time I was charging next to EQS and at the same SOC he was pulling almost twice as muck kW as I was. I am leaning towards software update that changed the behavior. I have software version 2.1.33 pending to install now. I am planning to install an update now and stop by EA charger later today. I will report back if I noticed any difference in kW based on SOC % compared to previous sessions.

 

[suchluke]

I am going to claim no changes/improvements after updating to 2.1.33 software version. I have arrived at 350kW EA station with 24% SOC preconditioning previously battery for about 20 mins. The peak I saw was 140kW or 10mi/min. I am attaching a picture from this charging sessions.

24% -> 137kW
50% -> 109kW
55% -> 102kW

 

[Shane_SLC]

Thank you @LALucid and @suchluke for sharing. I had mobile service check the fault logs while I had them out for an unrelated issue and they weren't able to see anything obvious. I emailed Customer Care about my findings and they forwarded them to the charging team. I think it would be helpful if anyone willing and able can document their charging curve and send it to Lucid if it seems abnormal. The more data and evidence they have the better.

 

[suchluke]

I am going to claim no changes/improvements after updating to 2.1.33 software version. I have arrived at 350kW EA station with 24% SOC preconditioning previously battery for about 20 mins. The peak I saw was 140kW or 10mi/min. I am attaching a picture from this charging sessions.

24% -> 137kW
50% -> 109kW
55% -> 102kW

Outside temperature 55 F.

24% -> 137kW
50% -> 109kW
55% -> 102kW
60% -> 100kW
65% -> 90kW
70% -> 81kW
75% -> 72kW
80% -> 63kW

Total charging time: 32 minutes
Energy Delivered: 54.7 kW

Hopefully this mean by starting lower current the charging curve stays more flat rather than overheating battery at the beginning and dropping the current more later on. So more steady charging for the same amount of total time.

 

[LALucid]

My charging curve this morning. Looking the same as above. Pre conditioned 20 min.

 

[Halodde]

Greetings all,

I just wanted to share some odd charging behavior I've noticed with my car at DCFC stations. I've included a table documenting a recent 6-80% SoC charging session preceded by some context and my thoughts. For reference, my car is a 2023 Touring produced in January 2023. If anyone has seen similar behavior or have any thoughts I would love to hear it!

I first noticed oddly low DCFC speeds about a month ago. I've seen peak charging speeds of 290kW+ several times with my car, but on the last couple of long distance road trips I've taken the highest I've seen is around 235kW at <10% SoC, even after 30+ minutes of preconditioning. It also seems like the curve dips below 150kW about 10% SoC sooner than it used to. This shift seems to have occurred sometime between the beginning of August and October. It's also worth noting that this behavior has been repeatable across multiple 350kW Electrify America stations and a couple of EVgo stations. Ambient temperatures have typically been between 40-80F, usually around 60-70F. The battery has always been preconditioned for 40-45 minutes automatically via the route planner, or manually for at least 30 minutes. Since I've noticed this behavior I have not seen the "Charging speed limited by station" message, so I'm fairly certain the cause is the car and not the charging station, temperature, etc. The table below shows my most recent DCFC session at a 350kW EVgo unit. I noticed that during the charging session the voltage stayed relatively constant from around 700-725v, so no issues there.

So why the sudden change in DCFC behavior? So far I have three theories, the first being battery degradation. I've driven my car farther and harder than most other owners (I assume), and I'm sitting at 16,600 miles after 7 months of ownership. While I've maintained the recommended 80% daily SoC limit and tried not to go below 20% too often, there's been plenty of times I've charged to 100% for long distance travel and been as low as 3% a handful of times. Using the car's range estimate it claims I can travel 367 miles on 100% SoC. This would equate to a 4.5% loss in battery capacity (367 current max range / 384 inital max range on 20" wheels). Given how much I've driven the car already this doesn't seem too far off of estimates I've seen staying to expect a loss of 1-2% capacity per year. I'm not sure why this would cause such a noticeable change in charging behavior, but I thought it was worth noting.

My second theory is that recent software updates to the car have affected the charging curve in some way. This shift I've described occurred sometime between August and October, during which time no major changes in mileage occurred. I'm not sure if a software update even could affect the charging behavior this way, but if anyone else has noticed something similar maybe it's worth investigating. My last and most likely theory would be some kind of hardware or BMS issue with my car. I did almost get stranded in Battle Mountain, NV this summer due to a known issue with ABB units, so I've definitely experienced significant charging issues with my car before.

Thanks for reading! I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts or theories you might have. If this seems to be an isolated issue I will probably forward this issue to Lucid to see what they think. While this issue is relatively minor (especially now that road trip season is ending) and the reduction in charging speed realisically only adds 5-10 minutes of charging, the high charging speeds was something I really appreciated on long road trips. Now I feel like I can barely charge faster than an ID4.

SoC​	kW​
7%​	232​
10%​	205​
15%​	176​
20%​	164​
25%​	153​
30%​	143​
35%​	136​
40%​	128​
45%​	116​
50% (16 mintues)​	104​
55%​	93​
60%​	84​
65%​	75​
70% (30 minutes)​	67​
75%​	59​
80% (40.5 minutes)​	50​

First thing that hit me was how high your peak power was previously. I've also got a Touring produced around the same time and have about 7 months of driving it up to 18.500 miles. But I have *never* seen anything above 224 kW. So although your current experiences are less than what you had before, they are now more in line with my usual charging speeds.

I'll be interested to hear what CS/service say if you bring it to them.

 

[hydbob]

First thing that hit me was how high your peak power was previously. I've also got a Touring produced around the same time and have about 7 months of driving it up to 18.500 miles. But I have *never* seen anything above 224 kW. So although your current experiences are less than what you had before, they are now more in line with my usual charging speeds.

I'll be interested to hear what CS/service say if you bring it to them.

The Touring do have a lower peak charging curve, paging @Adnillien to do the calculations

 

[Halodde]

The Touring do have a lower peak charging curve, paging @Adnillien to do the calculations

Right. But the OP and I both have Tourings produced around the same time with similar mileage. So, they should be at least similar in peak charging/curves assuming similar temp, SOC, preconditioning etc...

 

[hydbob]

Right. But the OP and I both have Tourings produced around the same time with similar mileage. So, they should be at least similar in peak charging/curves assuming similar temp, SOC, preconditioning etc...

That would also require you guys to be testing on the same stations as well

 

[joec]

Right. But the OP and I both have Tourings produced around the same time with similar mileage. So, they should be at least similar in peak charging/curves assuming similar temp, SOC, preconditioning etc...

I think the anomaly was the high peak rate he was getting before. My numbers are very similar to yours in my Touring. I think the highest I've ever gotten was 241—very briefly. I tend to get 220 or so at best.

 

[Adnillien]

The Touring do have a lower peak charging curve, paging @Adnillien to do the calculations

The peak difference is the ratio of the battery voltages between the DE/GT and Touring/Pure which is 82%. That said once thermal management starts to limit the charge rate, the charge rate between the two will become close to the same.