Real world range?

[Dortreo]

Has there been any further news on real-world range? I read in a post in the other forum that Lucid did indeed use a 5-cycle test with the EPA to measure range, just as Tesla did. This article also states that Lucid conducted a 5-cycle EPA test. If that is the case, then the Lucid Air's real-world range should be less than EPA stated range, as opposed to the Teutonic EVs.

In fact, the Edmunds chart shows that Teslas can overestimate their real world range by anywhere from 2 to 17%. (The Edmunds test is 60% road/40% highway.) Mercedes EQS underestimates by 20% while the Porsche Taycan underestimates by 60%!

Worst case scenario is that the Lucid's real world range is off by 10 to 20%, so perhaps 360 to 400 miles would be a more realistic expectation for a Dream P with 21 inch wheels? If that's the case, then the range gap between the Mercedes EQS and the Lucid Air may not be much at all...

 

[hydbob]

I just refer back to the MotorTrend range test of Beverly Hills to San Francisco without having to stop to charge. But that was a range model

 

[Lucken]

Has there been any further news on real-world range? I read in a post in the other forum that Lucid did indeed use a 5-cycle test with the EPA to measure range, just as Tesla did. This article also states that Lucid conducted a 5-cycle EPA test. If that is the case, then the Lucid Air's real-world range should be less than EPA stated range, as opposed to the Teutonic EVs.

In fact, the Edmunds chart shows that Teslas can overestimate their real world range by anywhere from 2 to 17%. (The Edmunds test is 60% road/40% highway.) Mercedes EQS underestimates by 20% while the Porsche Taycan underestimates by 60%!

Worst case scenario is that the Lucid's real world range is off by 10 to 20%, so perhaps 360 to 400 miles would be a more realistic expectation for a Dream P with 21 inch wheels? If that's the case, then the range gap between the Mercedes EQS and the Lucid Air may not be much at all...

That was exactly the point I made in another thread several weeks back. The real world differences between the range of the Lucid and some German cars may be significantly less than they appear on paper and, in the end, relatively inconsequential. Apparent range differences may not be as much of a deciding factor as we once thought them to be.

 

[hmp10]

I don't think anyone does a "real-world" range test. For legal reasons every "real world" highway range test is done at the speed limit. This is the case with Tom Moloughney of "InsideEVs", with Edmunds, with Consumer Union, and it was the case with the "Motor Trend" range test that Kim Reynolds did last year in which a Grand Touring went 490 miles.

The problem is that almost no one actually sticks to the speed limit on a highway trip. Data shows that the average speed on the U.S. interstate system is 78 mph. And aerodynamic drag increases as the square of speed increases, meaning that a car doing 78 mph is going to get significantly less range than a car doing 70 mph.

And this is why aerodynamic drag is such a factor in EV range. The range deterioration between driving at 78 mph vs 70 mph in a Rivian R1T is going to be a lot more than the range deterioration caused by the same speed variance in a Lucid Air, Tesla Model S, or Mercedes EQS.

To me, no "real world" range test means much until I see one in which the driver stays with the flow of traffic throughout, not the posted speed limit. (This is why we have done our own range testing of both our Teslas driving with prevailing traffic on Alligator Alley through the Everglades.)

I would be so uncomfortable trying to stick to the speed limit on an interstate while other traffic is whizzing around me for extended periods that I would actually prefer to make such a trip in an ICE car than an EV if I could drive the ICE car with the flow of traffic without worrying about running out of range.

 

[Dortreo]

I just refer back to the MotorTrend range test of Beverly Hills to San Francisco without having to stop to charge. But that was a range model

Right, that gives me confidence that the range editions (and AGT) can manage a 400 mile trip without a problem.

 

[Dortreo]

I don't think anyone does a "real-world" range test. For legal reasons every "real world" highway range test is done at the speed limit. This is the case with Tom Moloughney of "InsideEVs", with Edmunds, with Consumer Union, and it was the case with the "Motor Trend" range test that Kim Reynolds did last year in which a Grand Touring went 490 miles.

The problem is that almost no one actually sticks to the speed limit on a highway trip. Data shows that the average speed on the U.S. interstate system is 78 mph. And aerodynamic drag increases as the square of speed increases, meaning that a car doing 78 mph is going to get significantly less range than a car doing 70 mph.

And this is why aerodynamic drag is such a factor in EV range. The range deterioration between driving at 78 mph vs 70 mph in a Rivian R1T is going to be a lot more than the range deterioration caused by the same speed variance in a Lucid Air, Tesla Model S, or Mercedes EQS.

To me, no "real world" range test means much until I see one in which the driver stays with the flow of traffic throughout, not the posted speed limit. (This is why we have done our own range testing of both our Teslas driving with prevailing traffic on Alligator Alley through the Everglades.)

I would be so uncomfortable trying to stick to the speed limit on an interstate while other traffic is whizzing around me for extended periods that I would actually prefer to make such a trip in an ICE car than an EV if I could drive the ICE car with the flow of traffic without worrying about running out of range.

What is the difference between EPA ratings for range or efficiency for the Tesla Plaid and the numbers you get on Alligator Alley?

 

[hmp10]

I measure in my own idiosyncratic way. Since I rely on the car's "remaining range" gauge on a road trip, that is what I calibrate against. I use the mile markers on the highway to measure actual miles traveled compared to how many miles drop from the remaining range indicated by the car.

In case you don't know, Alligator Alley is a flat, straight, lightly-traveled stretch of I-75 that crosses the Florida Everglades from Naples to Miami. I can set the cruise control at 80 mph (which the GPS in my radar detector tells me is really 78 mph in the Tesla) and almost never have to brake to avoid other traffic. I also do the tests on dry days when the temperature is between 80 and 90 degrees, with the A/C set to 72 and the stereo playing.

Our 2015 Model S P90D consumed about 10 miles of indicated range for every 6 miles of actual road travel. Our 2021 Model S Plaid covers almost 7 miles of road travel with the same indicated drop of 10 miles of remaining range.

Thus, although Tesla has stepped up its range game over the past six years, it still only gets about 70% of indicated range in what I consider "real world" driving in near-optimal conditions.

(I don't worry about range for local driving, as I have never come close to running out of range even in long days of errand running all over the place, despite a mix of high-speed driving on the multi-lane divided roadways that constitute a large part of local travel in this part of Florida.)

 

[Dortreo]

We spent a pre-pandemic Christmas week in Naples and drove along Alligator Alley from Ft. Lauderdale while listening to a podcast called "Florida Man." Good times.

 

[hmp10]

. . . .

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Hopefully with the Air's range the only issue we'll be faced with is chargers not working. There only two ChargePoint in Bluff, UT. Based on Google Street view look like speed limit is 65 most of the route.

 

[Adnillien]

Hopefully with the Air's range the only issue we'll be faced with is chargers not working. There only two ChargePoint in Bluff, UT. Based on Google Street view look like speed limit is 65 most of the route.

Traffic on that road typically moves at just over 70. You will have to pass some pokies which could eat into your range. You will also find charge point in Monticello. If you can make it that far, you will find better lunch choices.

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Traffic on that road typically moves at just over 70. You will have to pass some pokies which could eat into your range. You will also find charge point in Monticello. If you can make it that far, you will find better lunch choices.

Speaking of pokies, have any EV owners found any benefit drafting semi-trucks? This was kind of popular in the 70's never knew if actually worked.

 

[Dortreo]

Speaking of pokies, have any EV owners found any benefit drafting semi-trucks? This was kind of popular in the 70's never knew if actually worked.

Sounds exciting and efficient.

Mythbusters 2007:

Drafting behind a big rig will improve your car’s fuel efficiency.
CONFIRMED

To test this myth, the build team procured a car, a big rig, and a device that could measure a car’s fuel efficiency. They then drove the car behind a moving big rig at various distances ranging from 100 to 2 feet and measured the amount of fuel the car consumed. The Build Team discovered that the closer the car was to the big rig, the less drag is produced, thus the more fuel saved. At just ten feet, the car managed to increase its fuel efficiency by 40%. Drafting at two feet was slightly lower than the ten foot distance, mainly because Grant had to keep working the car pedal to maintain distance from the truck. However, that did not dispute the fact that drafting actually can increase your car’s fuel efficiency. However, the Build Team has warned that drafting is incredibly dangerous because the truck driver may not able to see you and you may not be able to react in time if the truck were to make a sudden stop.

 

[hmp10]

I'm in Florida. I wonder what following a coal roller will do to range? And to the paint job on the car?

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

ADAS where are you!!!

 

[Lucken]

Speaking of pokies, have any EV owners found any benefit drafting semi-trucks? This was kind of popular in the 70's never knew if actually worked.

Regardless of how much an improvement in range is achieved, I'd never draft a semi...unless you're fond of paint chips.

BTW, Alligator Alley has to be the most boring strip of highway I've ever been on. After an hour on that highway I thought I was going to go crazy.

 

[hmp10]

BTW, Alligator Alley has to be the most boring strip of highway I've ever been on. After an hour on that highway I thought I was going to go crazy.

What, you don’t find it fun to count dead pythons and gators?

 

[dawktah LucidGT]

Last time I went down Alligator Alley I saw zero gators, I must have had the worse luck or driving too fast, LOL But I was only on it from 29 East

 

[Pete44]

I sometimes drive from Palm Beach Gardens to Naples so know the road pretty well. Hate driving it at night. Always think something is going to be crossing the road. I wonder if the Lucid can detect short animals.

 

[hmp10]

Last time I went down Alligator Alley I saw zero gators . . . .

They probably hadn't gotten off work yet: