Q1 Production 2314 cars

[Sandvinsd]

Remember they accelerated the construction of both phase 2 and 3 plant expansions, which I considered a mistake at the time. They are also building one in Saudi Arabia. They cannot even maximize the capacity on the current plant. Even with project Gravity, these plants will be underutilized. Big mistake that increased critical cash burn and necessitates another round of financing. They were way too optimistic on the demand side.

 

[MorganB]

Remember they accelerated the construction of both phase 2 and 3 plant expansions, which I considered a mistake at the time. They are also building one in Saudi Arabia. They cannot even maximize the capacity on the current plant. Even with project Gravity, these plants will be underutilized. Big mistake that increased critical cash burn and necessitates another round of financing. They were way too optimistic on the demand side.

Wouldn't they need a separate assembly line for Gravity hence more space? Saudi plant has 100k orders to produce and will probably supply European demand.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

Tesla is cutting price because it has a commodity utilitarian product and they enjoy substantial scale economies. Chasing Tesla down market is a losing strategy for Lucid.

There is a pretty large luxury automotive market segment in the $80-95k range. Especially for SUVs. The market size over $100k for any vehicle type is very small.

Lucid is a luxury brand so I don’t see the attraction of diluting the brand by going too far down market below say $70k.

Lucid does need the Gravity urgently because the luxury SUV market is substantially larger than the sedan market. I’m guessing the Gravity will be priced like the Air at $85k-135k price point. That should increase demand by 200-300%.

Lucid does need a mid-sized entry into the sporty coupe, crossover, and SUV segments in the $70k range. That should increase demand another 3-4x.

All of that gets Lucid to 200k units per year in the domestic market. Then there is Europe, Mideast, and China. That doubles to 400k units per year. Now we have a sustainable economic proposition. It will take 8-10 years.

 

[digiboxer]

Tesla is cutting price because it has a commodity utilitarian product and they enjoy substantial scale economies. Chasing Tesla down market is a losing strategy for Lucid.

There is a pretty large luxury automotive market segment in the $80-95k range. Especially for SUVs. The market size over $100k for any vehicle type is very small.

Lucid is a luxury brand so I don’t see the attraction of diluting the brand by going too far down market below say $70k.

Lucid does need the Gravity urgently because the luxury SUV market is substantially larger than the sedan market. I’m guessing the Gravity will be priced like the Air at $85k-135k price point. That should increase demand by 200-300%.

Lucid does need a mid-sized entry into the sporty coupe, crossover, and SUV segments in the $70k range. That should increase demand another 3-4x.

All of that gets Lucid to 200k units per year in the domestic market. Then there is Europe, Mideast, and China. That doubles to 400k units per year. Now we have a sustainable economic proposition. It will take 8-10 years.

Maybe…but how long/far is it from here to there? They are bleeding cash on warranty work for a few thousand cars. And US plant expansion, and Saudi plant, and R&D on the so-far unannounced segments you suggest. And they plan to run out of cash 4Q23 or 1Q24.

The only plausible scenario for survival is that the Saudis are all-in

 

[HariK]

Maybe…but how long/far is it from here to there? They are bleeding cash on warranty work for a few thousand cars. And US plant expansion, and Saudi plant, and R&D on the so-far unannounced segments you suggest. And they plan to run out of cash 4Q23 or 1Q24.

The only plausible scenario for survival is that the Saudis are all-in

They are all in I believe.

 

[stratus]

I believe Lucid’s struggles are secondary to several factors, one of which is the deteriorating economy, but I believe a couple other factors are more pervasive.

The sorry pathetic state of the United States’non Tesla charging network is largely to blame for people’s hesitance to embrace electric cars, Lucid included. I live in an absolute charging wasteland and I am very hesitant to go on trips with unreliable chargers spaced hundreds of miles apart . I am finally going to do it in a few weeks, but I admit, I am nervous.

Another huge problem in my eyes is social media. I am getting so tired of people having an absolute Facebook conniption about what I consider minor things, like software glitches and panel gaps , etc. This stuff probably scares a lot of people away. Of course, Lucid should strive for improvement in these areas, but non constructive social media rants are counterproductive. There are a few minor things that frustrate me about the car and this forum has been invaluable in helping me navigate those concerns. If I get a tire bubble or I have a software malfunction, I am going to make every effort to NOT go ballistic on Facebook and act like I have been so wronged that I just can’t go on anymore.

End of rant. Thank you for listening.

 

[NoseyReporter]

Tesla is cutting price because it has a commodity utilitarian product and they enjoy substantial scale economies. Chasing Tesla down market is a losing strategy for Lucid.

100% agree.

Regarding manufacturing capacity, I really hope they are pausing their expansion, or maybe slowing it down. I wonder if there are contractual obligations though.

As for a separate line for Gravity, I've seen some manufacturers built several different models on the same assembly line. Ferrari does it, or at least they did when I was there for a tour 4 years ago. I think Ferrari delivered around 13k in 2022, so the Air + Gravity would be too far off.

 

[Paco]

I agree, the only way I see for lucid to survive this short term economic situation, is for the Saudis to take it private.

 

[Daniel2022AT]

It is a $10 billion proposition. No question. If anyone doesn’t have the balls for that then you should not be in the automotive business.

 

[quantum]

Saudi will never take Lucid private. They want to keep it as an American company, helps the image. Saudi will fully support Lucid as it ramps up production. Its the economy, not the car. At least thats a good thing. If the product was shit, then that is the end of the story.

Saudi want to diversify, they now oil demand wont last forever. Lucid is there luxury EV baby, think they will let it flop? NO WAY! Guess how much Saudi ARAMCO made in profits last year? 200 BILLION. Expecting 300 BILLLION this year!

This is at least a 5 year longterm investment. Anyone expecting a quick buck should go away and stop complaining!

 

[Tesla2.0]

If they can produce the gravity in mass production, and sell it for less than <60k. That may save them, Tesla keeps lowering the Model Y, because the group of folks that can afford/willing to purchase a premium vehicle is getting smaller each day.

Tesla just dropped its price yesterday for the 6th time this year. That’s -24% for a Model Y from Dec 31st of 2022. At the rate of this price drop going, Tesla might as well be “buy one get one free” by Dec 31st, 2023. Why buy Tesla now if you can just hold off to buy at cheaper price later this year? Tesla is trying to save cost of manufacturing by not ramping down production, but dropping price to stimulate orders. The truth is demand has curbed naturally for all car makers because of interest rate hike and Q1 is usually low season for auto-makers.

Gravity and Model-Y are not the same class. Gravity is full SUV. There will be another cheaper model of crossover after Gravity.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Model S base price:

2017 70k
2018 79k
2019 76k
2020 71k
2021 97k
2022 107k
Current : 85k

Elon briefly trolled Lucid Pure in 2020 for Model S priced at $69,420 when Pure was 70k after advertised with 7500 tax credit. At 85k, Model-S still have some room to go down as supply constraint eased. I feel bad for last year Model-S purchasers at high margin. But Tesla do have mature software though.

 

[Tesla2.0]

The sorry pathetic state of the United States’non Tesla charging network is largely to blame for people’s hesitance to embrace electric cars, Lucid included. I live in an absolute charging wasteland and I am very hesitant to go on trips with unreliable chargers spaced hundreds of miles apart . I am finally going to do it in a few weeks, but I admit, I am nervous.

Another huge problem in my eyes is social media. I am getting so tired of people having an absolute Facebook conniption about what I consider minor things, like software glitches and panel gaps , etc. This stuff probably scares a lot of people away. Of course, Lucid should strive for improvement in these areas, but non constructive social media rants are counterproductive.

AMEN! Especially lurking Troll’s sampling and harvesting info from this forum to gain their popularity in other social media.

Lucid doesn’t make bad EVs. It’s EA pushing first time EV buyers to Tesla with EA’s lack of maintenance and potentials buyers reading social media rant. Like @joec mentioned, it’s all about timing of market entrant. Right now there are more CCS EVs being produced at faster rate ratio vs DCFC charging stations being installed, hope this ratio will change next few years.

 

[quantum]

Maybe…but how long/far is it from here to there? They are bleeding cash on warranty work for a few thousand cars. And US plant expansion, and Saudi plant, and R&D on the so-far unannounced segments you suggest. And they plan to run out of cash 4Q23 or 1Q24.

The only plausible scenario for survival is that the Saudis are all-in

I strongly believe they are, why else would they be giving incentives for Lucid to build factory in Saudi. They WILL make sure Lucid is a success....because they want to stick it to Elon Musk.

Saudi invested in TSLA . During the " 420 funding secured " debacle, they took their money out. TSLA rocketed. They missed out. They want to get back in the game. They will double down and not walk away and are even more committed- especially after Elon Musk threw them under the bus in court by blaming the Saudis for the " 420 ". Saudis did not like that. They will keep quite and make sure Lucid makes the best EV, better than Tesla and will be a resounding success. First part is done, the product. Now they just need to grind through the bad economy.

Remember when Biden called the Saudi prince a murderer? Look what happened!

I will NEVER sell my LCID. Holding 10 years!

 

[NoseyReporter]

This is exactly what happens when you start a price war. It is why I've personally felt Lucid shouldn't play ball with Tesla pricing games. It erodes your margins, hurts the brand, and also conditions your customers to wait for discounts. It is just bad all around. Premium brands don't do this. Look at Porsche, they are raising prices in 2023. Being a premium brand enables them to do this during uncertain economic times.

As TSLA drags LCID down, I am patiently waiting to buy back the shares I sold after the Q1 call.

 

[xponents]

This is exactly what happens when you start a price war. It is why I've personally felt Lucid shouldn't play ball with Tesla pricing games. It erodes your margins, hurts the brand, and also conditions your customers to wait for discounts. It is just bad all around. Premium brands don't do this. Look at Porsche, they are raising prices in 2023. Being a premium brand enables them to do this during uncertain economic times.

As TSLA drags LCID down, I am patiently waiting to buy back the shares I sold after the Q1 call.

Porsche, apple, etc. The thing is that those arent new companies, so they already have the prestige. Lucid is just getting started.
Short term this does not look good, we NEED gravity.

 

[DBV]

This is exactly what happens when you start a price war. It is why I've personally felt Lucid shouldn't play ball with Tesla pricing games. It erodes your margins, hurts the brand, and also conditions your customers to wait for discounts. It is just bad all around. Premium brands don't do this. Look at Porsche, they are raising prices in 2023. Being a premium brand enables them to do this during uncertain economic times.

As TSLA drags LCID down, I am patiently waiting to buy back the shares I sold after the Q1 call.

Porsche usually does not, but I know Mercedes EQS is offering very aggressive lease incentives right now. BMW typically will do that too, but not sure about them right now. So, it is not just Tesla being aggressive right now.

 

[Tesla2.0]

Tesla is not a true luxury brand. Real luxury brands don’t mess with their price like Texas weather, Tesla wants their cars to masses, they don’t want to curb production and affect cost increase, so they drop price to increase demand. Tesla factory workers only wish they can work 40~60 hours a week with curbed production, Elon won’t let them slow down nor letting them form labor union. “40 hours a week schedule is for Fxxxing weak people working for weak companies”, “remember we have mission for mankind” as quoted of him. Tesla only enjoyed high margin because they were the only game in town, but not anymore.

 

[DBV]

Tesla is not luxury brand. Luxury brand don’t act this way, Tesla wants their cars to masses. They enjoyed high margin because they were the only game in town, but not anymore.

The refresh Model S is right there with the Touring. They both offer better positives/negatives. Tesla also has the benefit of their unsurpassed charging network, which means something if you travel a lot. Watching Dave’s Out of Spec recent charging experiences really makes me cringe on his terrible charging experiences.

Do you consider Mercedes and BMW luxury brands? Like I said in my above post, Mercedes is being super aggressive now on EQS leases and maybe purchasing too. So, some luxury brands do offer aggressive discounts. Our current BMW X5 was purchased at a large discount, as were my previous BMW 5 Series. Same with our Mercedes GLS’s. Even when we purchased a Porsche Macan it was purchased at an aggressive discount. So, it is not just Tesla right now.

Lucid will need to do something, as I am seeing very few deliveries on this forum recently and they are still the new, relatively “unknown kid on the block” in an extremely competitive marketplace in a down economy with high interest rates.

 

[sk8ndad]

The refresh Model S is right there with the Touring. They both offer better positives/negatives. Tesla also has the benefit of their unsurpassed charging network, which means something if you travel a lot. Watching Dave’s Out of Spec recent charging experiences really makes me cringe on his terrible charging experiences.

Do you consider Mercedes and BMW luxury brands? Like I said in my above post, Mercedes is being super aggressive now on EQS leases and maybe purchasing too. So, some luxury brands do offer aggressive discounts. Our current BMW X5 was purchased at a large discount, as were my previous BMW 5 Series. Same with our Mercedes GLS’s. Even when we purchased a Porsche Macan it was purchased at an aggressive discount. So, it is not just Tesla right now.

Lucid will need to do something, as I am seeing very few deliveries on this forum recently and they are still the new, relatively “unknown kid on the block” in an extremely competitive marketplace in a down economy with high interest rates.

I think if you go to any service center, you will see a backlog of cars being delivered (At least that is true in Millbrae). My charging experiences in California have all been very positive, so I think the "unsurpassed" charging network may be location dependent. I do know that recently when I went to an EA site there was a Tesla charging there to 100%. I think the Lucid is an amazing car and so far all components including charging have been very positive. I hope they get bidirectional charging working soon, that could make a very real difference. The touring is life 6.5 power walls.