NACS (Tesla adapter) versus CCS Megathread

[HariK]

Demurred isn't the same as rejected. Porsche, like other 800-1000V canmakers Lucid and Hyundai/Kia, won't sign up for NACS until Tesla makes substantial progress on installing 1000V charging stations, or makes some sort of guarantee that they will in a specific time frame (not likely). IMO it's a reasonable position.

That makes sense. 50kW is pretty slow for us to go to Tesla chargers. I will go to EVgo before I go to Tesla.

 

[thecodingart]

@joec you might appreciate this reply:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1674977772765151232

 

[KenAir]

I am hopeful in say 5 years the USA will have universal adoption of the NACS plug and plentiful 1000V 500kw and up chargers. Until then I'll keep charging mostly at home and using EA/CCS when I must! With the 400+ mile real-world range I rarely need to charge away from home. I can wait the 5 years for EV utopia.

Worst case even at 50kw charging over say an hour lunch will get us another 200 miles of range. For me, that's enough to get anywhere I plan to actually go. On any trip over 600 miles I'll drive a gas car!

 

[DeaneG]

... any trip over 600 miles I'll drive a gas car!

We've taken a couple trips longer than that in our Air, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

 

[thecodingart]

We've taken a couple trips longer than that in our Air, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

I’ve taken countless trips in my EVs over the years up and down the entire East Coast.

 

[joec]

I’m on a 1,200 mile road trip right now. Through Wyoming and Montana, two of the least-covered areas for EV chargers. And though I’m cutting it a bit close as far as the max range of my Touring between chargers, I wouldn’t hesitate to do this trip again. In a GT, I wouldn’t think twice about it.

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Getting rid of a Lucid, which currently has the longest range of any production EV, because the CCS network is less reliable than Tesla NACS (but largely still works), is like getting rid of a Bugatti because it gets bad gas mileage. It’s kind of missing the point.

 

[Volund]

Just to verify too, a Lucid CAN use a CCS to NACS adapter and charge at a Tesla super charger right?

How about we protest and hold up the lines without 50kw charging and hog the chargers until people realize NACS isn't ready lol

 

[Alex]

Just to verify too, a Lucid CAN use a CCS to NACS adapter and charge at a Tesla super charger right?

Currently only when using a Tesla Supercharger that has the Magic Dock connector, which is a NACS to CCS1 adapter that is magnetically attached to the charger and theoretically can't be stollen. There are only a few of these superchargers currently in operation:

Magic Dock | Tesla CCS Locations

Map of Tesla Superchargers that support charging CCS compatible vehicles including locations using the Magic Dock

www.plugshare.com

Or the Tesla map (look for the little red dots):

Find Us | Tesla

Use the interactive Find Us map to locate Tesla charging stations, service centers, galleries and stores on the go.

www.tesla.com

 

[Bunnylebowski]

Just to verify too, a Lucid CAN use a CCS to NACS adapter and charge at a Tesla super charger right?

How about we protest and hold up the lines without 50kw charging and hog the chargers until people realize NACS isn't ready lol

Yeah and park across 3 stalls so the cable can actually reach your car. Pretty much I’d only use MagicDock if I had zero other level 3 options and I was driving through region of the North East that has them.

 

[borski]

Just to verify too, a Lucid CAN use a CCS to NACS adapter and charge at a Tesla super charger right?

How about we protest and hold up the lines without 50kw charging and hog the chargers until people realize NACS isn't ready lol

Short answer: not yet. But in the long run, probably.

You can use an adapter for destination chargers today tho.

 

[Bill55]

Just to verify too, a Lucid CAN use a CCS to NACS adapter and charge at a Tesla super charger right?

How about we protest and hold up the lines without 50kw charging and hog the chargers until people realize NACS isn't ready lol

Any level 3 charging requires that the vehicle and the charger can communicate. Once Tesla supercharger station are working with fords and GM with adapters, As long as Lucid joins in, we will be good. Now Tesla can charge us whatever they want.

 

[Tâm]

Nxu To Challenge CharIN's MCS With NxuOne Megawatt Charging Solution

Nxu announced that its megawatt charging solution, called NxuOne, nears field testing, as the company leaves CharIN association, which works on the MCS.

insideevs.com

I am not sure if I understand correctly:

US Megawatt Charging MCS, including NACS, standards are falling behind for not supporting 3-phase AC charging.

Thus, Nxu, Inc suggests a single form factor that can be used for both AC (single to 3-phase) and DC and could be adopted globally (Europe CCS2). Currently, 1.5 Megawatts and expected to 3MW DC.

If a business has 3-phase AC, they could get 133 kW 480V, 166 kW 600V (compared with current Lucid AC charging at 19.2 kW).

Currently, Tesla 800V charging is still confusing to me.

This picture below is from the prototype Tesla Semi that looks like a rectangle:

The picture below is a current Tesla Semi that looks like a square:

They in no way look like the single form factor of NACS.

The current prototype Tesla Cybertruck charge port is just like a standard single form factor of NACS,

but we don't know if that will be the same for 1 MW Tesla Cybertruck charging (or if it will look like a square instead?).

In summary, NACS does not mean the end of the war as Nxu points out. In the meantime, we might think NACS comes as a single form factor, but we might get more clarity once 1 MW Tesla Cybertruck charging comes out.

 

[borski]

Any level 3 charging requires that the vehicle and the charger can communicate. Once Tesla supercharger station are working with fords and GM with adapters, As long as Lucid joins in, we will be good. Now Tesla can charge us whatever they want.

Not quite. For it to be meaningful in any way, Tesla would have to roll out and/or upgrade their existing charging infrastructure to 1000V. Until then, Lucid would never get more than 50kW from a Supercharger which is not great.

Also, I’m extremely curious to see just how many ways the supercharging infrastructure falls completely apart once they have the fragmentation problem of not every car being charged being.. a Tesla. Maybe it’ll work perfectly, but my bet is there are going to be some growing pains.

 

[MorganB]

My question is, can Tesla gather competitor charging curve data and efficiency by model when said models charge at the supercharger network ?

 

[Adnillien]

My question is, can Tesla gather competitor charging curve data and efficiency by model when said models charge at the supercharger network ?

Any of the charging networks can do this.

 

[MorganB]

Any of the charging networks can do this.

I was just reading Bloomberg and Peter Rawlinson has voiced the same concerns :

"“Whoever controls this — if it isn’t an open, impartial standard, if it’s owned by one company — has access to a lot of consumer data,” Rawlinson said. “It’s who owns that data, and making it genuinely open-sourced, that would worry me.”

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Bill55]

SAE is going to set the standards for NACS. Tesla will be just one operator of charging stations. There is nothing stopping Lucid from soliciting investment and building a charging network open to all EVs if they want to be able to collect data from other makes.

Another Win For Tesla: SAE Announces It Is Setting NACS Standards

The standards SAE will set with the NACS will govern how the plugs connect with charging stations, standardize charging speeds, reliability requirements, and cybersecurity measures.

www.forbes.com

 

[joec]

SAE is going to set the standards for NACS. Tesla will be just one operator of charging stations. There is nothing stopping Lucid from soliciting investment and building a charging network open to all EVs if they want to be able to collect data from other makes.

Another Win For Tesla: SAE Announces It Is Setting NACS Standards

The standards SAE will set with the NACS will govern how the plugs connect with charging stations, standardize charging speeds, reliability requirements, and cybersecurity measures.

www.forbes.com

Nothing except a few billion dollars. But yes.

 

[KenAir]

The conventional wisdom is the Tesla Supercharger network is much more reliable than say EA. But I think much of this has to do with the Tesla network only being used by Tesla cars, and there are only a few models of those. Once any network is used by hundreds of models by dozens of manufacturers, I suspect there will be lots of compatibility problems. It is a great step forward to agree on a single standard controlled by the SAE. But it will be several years until all these software and standard kinks get worked out. Glad to see the process is at least starting. I hope in five years there will be no need to even plan a trip around charging locations. Someday we can just pull off the interstate any time we like and there will be a working fast charger there.