NACS Megathread

[sdlucid]

I am more interested to wait for Rivian to open up their charging network. Many of them are in such locations where it's hard to find other chargers. I hope that next couple of years will see many non-EA networks expanding their coverage - Evgo (through GM?), Circle K, Chargepoint and so on. 50kw and needing three charging spots to park a Lucid to charge doesn't make me any excited to find a Tesla charger.

 

[CWedge411]

NACS (more accurately Tesla superchargers) is USELESS with current wunderbox....50kw max, I avg 42kw using magic dock... Huge let down.

I don't want to hear "but just wait to V4" that's 3-5 years out realistically before a significant amount of back ends get swapped out. All they have been doing is the front end dispenser which is just a longer cable and the ability to handle higher voltage and current.

Taycan has a 140kw booster which Lucid needs to copy ASAP!

 

[Tâm]

Taycan has a 140kw booster which Lucid needs to copy ASAP!

I am not a tech person but I guess it's possible to build a 400-to-800V step-up converter with 250kW capability, but that would make the box bigger, heavier, and costly.

400V was meant to be older technology so it might make sense to minimally support it with 50kW capability.

On the other hand, if the decision is to support older technology of 400V beyond a minimal effort, maybe it's worthwhile to copy 400V parallel and 800V serial split battery automatic charging configuration that Tesla Cybertruck and GM Hummer are doing instead of the big heavy duty step-up converter.

 

[CWedge411]

I am not a tech person but I guess it's possible to build a 400-to-800V step-up converter with 250kW capability, but that would make the box bigger, heavier, and costly.

400V was meant to be older technology so it might make sense to minimally support it with 50kW capability.

On the other hand, if the decision is to support older technology of 400V beyond a minimal effort, maybe it's worthwhile to copy 400V parallel and 800V serial split battery automatic charging configuration that Tesla Cybertruck and GM Hummer are doing instead of the big heavy duty step-up converter.

If Porsche can do it on even their low end cars, Lucid can give us what they have at 140kw, which Id be ok with.

 

[Tâm]

If Porsche can do it on even their low end cars, Lucid can give us what they have at 140kw, which Id be ok with.

Yes, Taycan can but with a cost of very little space in the car and weighs about 6,000 lbs. It costs more to almost $100,000, with shorter range of 292EPA.

On the other hand, Lucid Pure is spacious, lots of room and weighs 4,564 lbs. It costs less to less than $70,000 and with longer range of 420EPA.

 

[CWedge411]

Yes, Taycan can but with a cost of very little space in the car and weighs about 6,000 lbs. It costs more to almost $100,000, with shorter range of 292EPA.

On the other hand, Lucid Pure is spacious, lots of room and weighs 4,564 lbs. It costs less to less than $70,000 and with longer range of 420EPA.

Maybe the old version. The new 2025 is cheaper and close range to lucid and Faster charging than lucid. Lucid has more room for sure. But we are talking about 1 box here, not a car redesign.

 

[iwingkitli]

Sorry if this was asked - but can anyone clarify if it’s possible to charge beyond the 50kwh threshold on the Tesla superchargers? Can this limitation be removed via software updates or is this a permanent issue since our architecture is different?

 

[segbrk]

Sorry if this was asked - but can anyone clarify if it’s possible to charge beyond the 50kwh threshold on the Tesla superchargers? Can this limitation be removed via software updates or is this a permanent issue since our architecture is different?

It is not possible with current Superchargers, and that cannot be changed in software.

 

[iwingkitli]

Just one last follow up - has any adventurous owner here try to position their air to charge at a v3 charger yet? Is taking up two space enough to reach from charger to port or do we have to parallel park it?

 

[CWedge411]

Perpendicular parking taking up 2 or 3

 

[CWedge411]

Sorry if this was asked - but can anyone clarify if it’s possible to charge beyond the 50kwh threshold on the Tesla superchargers? Can this limitation be removed via software updates or is this a permanent issue since our architecture is different?

it's a hardware limitation on Lucids side. The physical voltage booster they put in the wunderbox is weak.

 

[Bobby]

it's a hardware limitation on Lucids side. The physical voltage booster they put in the wunderbox is weak.

This is incorrect. The Wunderbox was never made to boost low-voltage chargers. It has nothing to do with whether it’s “weak“ or not, it has to do with design decisions that were made. When it was originally designed, nobody anticipated that (1) NACS would become the de facto standard and (2) Tessa would not install higher voltage cabinets as they had promised numerous times.

 

[Professor Y Cars]

This is incorrect. The Wunderbox was never made to boost low-voltage chargers. It has nothing to do with whether it’s “weak“ or not, it has to do with design decisions that were made. When it was originally designed, nobody anticipated that (1) NACS would become the de facto standard and (2) Tessa would not install higher voltage cabinets as they had promised numerous times.

When ordering my '22 Taycan CT, Porsche gave the option to spec it with their on-board 150 kW/400V DC charger. As with everything Porsche, that was extra. I passed on it, because back in the ancient times of 2021 I didn't think I'd need 400V charging going forward.

But here we are going into 2025, on the verge of industry-wide NACS deployment.....with limited V4 charging stalls, all still running V3 400V cabinets.

 

[Tâm]

This is incorrect. The Wunderbox was never made to boost low-voltage chargers. It has nothing to do with whether it’s “weak“ or not, it has to do with design decisions that were made. When it was originally designed, nobody anticipated that (1) NACS would become the de facto standard and (2) Tessa would not install higher voltage cabinets as they had promised numerous times.

From Lucid website:

"The Lucid Air’s Wunderbox boost charger works at almost all public charging stations. It can automatically recognize your Air, adjust incoming voltage, and boost voltage for the quickest possible charge."

I can plug my Lucid to 120VAC, 240VAC, 400VDC... so something must boost those lower than 900V to Lucid's 900V.

I am not in the technical field, but I understand from social media that it's fine to boost from lower voltage to higher voltage. However, to get a higher desired Amperes for a quicker desired kW charging speed, the physical booster is bulkier and heavier. Thus, we need the required physical component put in the car first.

I think another alternative is to design 450V-parallel/900V-serial automatic switching split battery that works with both DC voltages with a light small automatic switch box.

But all of this is not realistic right now because it requires redesigning the system, which might take years to get to the production stage.

Thus, Tesla is just like a spare doughnut tire: I can drive 168MPH with my Lucid's tires, but when I need a spare tire, I can still drive with a maximum speed of 50MPH.

 

[sdlucid]

But here we are going into 2025, on the verge of industry-wide NACS deployment.....with limited V4 charging stalls, all still running V3 400V cabinets.

Between the charging limitation to 50kw, and the position of charging port, I would complain more on the position of charging port. 2025 is the year Tesla is planning to ramp up their vehicle production further too, making superchargers more crowded. I don't see it practical to occupy 2 or 3 parking spots, or aiming to stop somewhere hoping for three continuous spots to be available to use, or waiting at a station for three continuous spots to be free. And, funnily enough, I was not able to use some EA and Chargepoint stations too due to the position of charging port.

 

[Tâm]

I was not able to use EA and Chargepoint stations too due to the position of charging port.

I've been backing in or heading in to ensure the charge port is on the cable side. Sometimes, if I follow the designed parking direction to head in or back in, my charge port would be furthest from the cable. In that case, I re-parked and technically violated the traffic direction just to get the charge port nearest to the cable.

 

[patriots328]

Sorry if this was asked - but can anyone clarify if it’s possible to charge beyond the 50kwh threshold on the Tesla superchargers? Can this limitation be removed via software updates or is this a permanent issue since our architecture is different?

Eric Bach in an interview with Kyle Connor indicated that something might be in the works to use Tesla V3 network to charge above 50KWh but didn't provide any additional details. Interview below at 21minutes:

 

[sdlucid]

I've been backing in or heading in to ensure the charge port is on the cable side. Sometimes, if I follow the designed parking direction to head in or back in, my charge port would be furthest from the cable. In that case, I re-parked and technically violated the traffic direction just to get the charge port nearest to the cable.

There are some rare stations for both EA and Chargepoint that won't reach Lucid no matter how you park. For the EA station, I was able to do it once by taking three parking spots. But, that's impossible at that Walmart during busy hours.

 

[CWedge411]

This is incorrect. The Wunderbox was never made to boost low-voltage chargers. It has nothing to do with whether it’s “weak“ or not, it has to do with design decisions that were made. When it was originally designed, nobody anticipated that (1) NACS would become the de facto standard and (2) Tessa would not install higher voltage cabinets as they had promised numerous times.

As an electrical engineer I stand by what I said as factually accurate. The wunderbox WAS made to boost low voltage charger or else that functionality would not exist. There is no other reason to have a step up transformer from 400v to 900v. When it was designed there were in Fact many 400v chargers in the wild. Porsche and Hyundai both had 400v boosters and even Hyundai had 100kw boosters now, Lucid has left theirs alone. I'm not here to bash Lucid, I'm just stating electrical facts. They could have easily upgraded the wunderbox...even for a added cost like Porsche does. They chose not to, so if Charging at Tesla is important for you, I do not recommend Lucid to people...Good news though is, there isnt that many people who view that as super important. But there are some.

 

[CWedge411]

Between the charging limitation to 50kw, and the position of charging port, I would complain more on the position of charging port. 2025 is the year Tesla is planning to ramp up their vehicle production further too, making superchargers more crowded. I don't see it practical to occupy 2 or 3 parking spots, or aiming to stop somewhere hoping for three continuous spots to be available to use, or waiting at a station for three continuous spots to be free. And, funnily enough, I was not able to use some EA and Chargepoint stations too due to the position of charging port.

Lectron and others are working on NACS extension cables that work without active cooling.