Lucid Launch Event

[C28]

Different battery size affect transmission speed of electricity based on 2nd Law of Thermodynamic. Lucid has industry unique 900V charge architecture as opposed of Polestar 2’s standard 400V like Tesla. And Lucid’s compact motor has more dense HP output than all car makers out there. I think Lucid is being prudent releasing final official numbers with many data points still being collected.

I was curious when I got my AGT. I thought it was 800 HP, then I’ve heard 860, and eventually at Q2 Earning call officially published for 819 HP result. But news outlets have different numbers all over places. I don’t care about 800, 819 or 860. It is much faster than I needed. Some of these numbers collections are not straight forward to finalize require statistical crunching. It takes thousands of iterations bc many variance factors such as temperature, weather, wind, SOC, etc when performing benchmark tests.

Wind has nothing to do with horsepower output by the vehicle to the wheel, or for that matter battery pack output (amperage). If you believe it does, please explain why dynos are done without wind.

 

[eherlihy1]

Way back in 2001, my wife bought a new Hyundai Sonata. When she bought it, Hyundai claimed that the engine had 140hp in the brochure. However, it was independently discovered that the car actually had 135hp. The ensuing class action lawsuit provided her with a debit card, and Hyundai had to pay $30,000,000 in damages and legal fees to settle the suit. See https://www.autoweek.com/news/a2088...million-settle-overstated-horsepower-lawsuit/

I believe that Lucid, by adding the words "UP TO" in front of 480hp. is trying to avoid a similar judgement. The question is, were these words just added, or were they there when I (and everyone else that reserved a Pure RWD) placed my reservation?

 

[MadMax]

Wrong; following that logic it would say it for every horsepower rating for all variants. If you are referring to maximum amperage output by a given battery configuration (for example, 88 kw or 92kw), then maybe. Yes I know it varies by charge level, show me one other example of an EV manufacturer listing horsepower at 80% battery charge. To fact check, the model 3 battery back from 2018 does 450hp output at 400 volts 75kw. No excuse a more modern lucid 800 volt 88kw pack can’t output this power level for RWD.

We all need to stop be Lucid apologists and hold them accountable for the false advertising. This is a software limited business decision to create greater tiering, plain and simple. Instead of complaining about my comment, I welcome any one else to explain another reason technically please.

C28…totally agree on the “Lucid apologist” idea. Very well stated I’m it’s entirety. Too many folks willing to put blinders on to

Wrong; following that logic it would say it for every horsepower rating for all variants. If you are referring to maximum amperage output by a given battery configuration (for example, 88 kw or 92kw), then maybe. Yes I know it varies by charge level, show me one other example of an EV manufacturer listing horsepower at 80% battery charge. To fact check, the model 3 battery back from 2018 does 450hp output at 400 volts 75kw. No excuse a more modern lucid 800 volt 88kw pack can’t output this power level for RWD.

We all need to stop be Lucid apologists and hold them accountable for the false advertising. This is a software limited business decision to create greater tiering, plain and simple. Instead of complaining about my comment, I welcome any one else to explain another reason technically please.

I think Peter was very clear when he stated that RWD and AWD will be one motor versus two motors. He would mention it if the battery pack is smaller. I think I have a written email from Lucid sale stated that the RWD will deliver 480HP with 405 miles.

Please share that email ! I ask because it explicitly says the Lucid Pure coming out first is ”dual motor”.

 

[MadMax]

Wind has nothing to do with horsepower output by the vehicle to the wheel, or for that matter battery pack output (amperage). If you believe it does, please explain why dynos are done without wind.

There is also a thing called bhp vs hp. Not sure how that applies to EVs

 

[joec]

Way back in 2001, my wife bought a new Hyundai Sonata. When she bought it, Hyundai claimed that the engine had 140hp in the brochure. However, it was independently discovered that the car actually had 135hp. The ensuing class action lawsuit provided her with a debit card, and Hyundai had to pay $30,000,000 in damages and legal fees to settle the suit. See https://www.autoweek.com/news/a2088...million-settle-overstated-horsepower-lawsuit/

I believe that Lucid, by adding the words "UP TO" in front of 480hp. is trying to avoid a similar judgement. The question is, were these words just added, or were they there when I (and everyone else that reserved a Pure RWD) placed my reservation?

“Lucid needs to be more transparent!”

Lucid: adds two words to their web site to be sure people know their individual car might get 479 instead of 480 hp.

“WE’RE GONNA SUE!!!!!!!!!!!”

Gee, I wonder why Lucid is reluctant to be more transparent?

 

[MadMax]

“Lucid needs to be more transparent!”

Lucid: adds two words to their web site to be sure people know their individual car might get 479 instead of 480 hp.

“WE’RE GONNA SUE!!!!!!!!!!!”

Gee, I wonder why Lucid is reluctant to be more transparent?

Lol ! Good point. But I would not waste time suing a car company. What I am saying is don’t quote numbers until you have at least a good idea. I wouldn’t care if it was 20 less hp. Some folks would. But if it’s something in the range of a 50 hp loss….that’s too much for me. Not speaking for other folks. They originally said RWD is 480 hp. If it’s 450 fine. I’m not Mario Andretti or I’d get the Sapphire. Note: Sapphire 1200 hp +. Not “up to 1200 hp”. If you check the site some models have hp exact. Some up to. I would guess it’s dependent on how many motors but don’t quote me on that. I’m not saying be more transparent. I’m saying deliver on what you originally advertised.

“Lucid needs to be more transparent!”

Lucid: adds two words to their web site to be sure people know their individual car might get 479 instead of 480 hp.

“WE’RE GONNA SUE!!!!!!!!!!!”

Gee, I wonder why Lucid is reluctant to be more transparent?

 

[maractwin]

I suspect the vague numbers come from hand-built prototypes, and they don't want to put down a hard number until a production car has been formally tested.

 

[Bobby]

Lol ! Good point. But I would not waste time suing a car company. What I am saying is don’t quote numbers until you have at least a good idea. I wouldn’t care if it was 20 less hp. Some folks would. But if it’s something in the range of a 50 hp loss….that’s too much for me. Not speaking for other folks. They originally said RWD is 480 hp. If it’s 450 fine. I’m not Mario Andretti or I’d get the Sapphire. Note: Sapphire 1200 hp +. Not “up to 1200 hp”. If you check the site some models have hp exact. Some up to. I would guess it’s dependent on how many motors but don’t quote me on that. I’m not saying be more transparent. I’m saying deliver on what you originally advertised.

OK, we all understand each other now. Can we move on?

 

[eherlihy1]

“Lucid needs to be more transparent!”

Lucid: adds two words to their web site to be sure people know their individual car might get 479 instead of 480 hp.

“WE’RE GONNA SUE!!!!!!!!!!!”

Gee, I wonder why Lucid is reluctant to be more transparent?

So you've got some info that states that it will be 479hp on the RWD Pure?

The issue is that you can't take orders promising one thing, and then change what you are going to deliver. Lucid KNOWS what they can deliver. By not being clear, or weaseling their way around what they earlier stated, (much like the "issues" with their service - specifically the Rivera Beach service location) they are damaging the Lucid brand.

 

[joec]

So you've got some info that states that it will be 479hp on the RWD Pure?

The issue is that you can't take orders promising one thing, and then change what you are going to deliver. Lucid KNOWS what they can deliver. By not being clear, or weaseling their way around what they earlier stated, (much like the "issues" with their service - specifically the Rivera Beach service location) they are damaging the Lucid brand.

First and foremost, they haven’t taken any orders. And they still won’t for a while with the RWD Pure.

What they have taken are $300 reservations. And those are refundable. I know some back in August converted to a “confirmed” order back in August, but reports so far have been that anyone canceling those are still getting their money back.

Lucid has yet to build an actual RWD Pure. How could they possibly say with certainty what the final HP number will be? Between now and whenever they ship that car next year, they will tune it and tweak it and try to get the most out of it. Just like they did with all the other models. At some point, they will be ready to release final numbers. They clearly aren’t now.

All they are ready to say now is that the AWD gets 480. Peter Rawlinson said exactly that during the presentation on Tuesday.

As far as I can tell, the 480 HP Lucid had listed previously under Pure was meant to represent the AWD version. Folks here were quick to assume they meant the RWD, and thus the AWD would have even more HP. But Lucid never clarified any of that. Some reps may have said this or that, but what we’ve learned here over the years is to take everything SA reps say with a grain of salt.

I agree, the web site probably should have said something along the lines of ~480, or “up to 480” from the beginning. Or had a footnote explaining that final numbers were yet to be determined. But here we are.

The bottom line is that if you don’t like it, no one is forcing you to buy it. Take your money elsewhere. Or accept the fact that less expensive versions of a car tend to have lower specs. Otherwise, why buy the more expensive models?

Something something Capitalism?

 

[Codyroo]

What I find curious is the concept of "decontenting". And it seems to be spurred on because Lucid released the AGT first and the Pure last. Did Lucid really "decontent" or did we "assume content"?

With the touring edition, we won't get massage seats. Is this "decontenting"? Did Lucid say we were getting said seats, or did we assume we would be getting them?
Ditto that with window screens in the Pure.

There is a whole "they promised us this and that" with Dream Drive. I'd love to address it, but I never really paid much attention to what they were offering vs not offering that my opinion would be of low value here.

In the end of the day, my point is this. If Lucid led off with delivering the PURE models, and then the Touring, would the lack of window screens (and interior fabrics, etc) still be considered "decontenting" or would it be considered adding content to a more expensive trim line beyond horsepower?

 

[eherlihy1]

First and foremost, they haven’t taken any orders. And they still won’t for a while with the RWD Pure.

What they have taken are $300 reservations. And those are refundable. I know some back in August converted to a “confirmed” order back in August, but reports so far have been that anyone canceling those are still getting their money back.

and from another member in another thread;

I've decided to cancel my Pure reservation. I didn't see a way to request a refund on the website. I sent a message to Lucid but that seems like a clunky way to ask for a refund. Does anyone know if there is a way to request a refund over the internet?

Yes, I'm trying to get my $300 refunded.

 

[Tesla2.0]

and from another member in another thread;

Webpage live support. I got Polestar 2 refunded 3 times with no problem for each time spec change. I’m sure Lucid is just the same. What a big deal to seek attention to announce canceling order!

 

[joec]

What I find curious is the concept of "decontenting". And it seems to be spurred on because Lucid released the AGT first and the Pure last. Did Lucid really "decontent" or did we "assume content"?

With the touring edition, we won't get massage seats. Is this "decontenting"? Did Lucid say we were getting said seats, or did we assume we would be getting them?
Ditto that with window screens in the Pure.

There is a whole "they promised us this and that" with Dream Drive. I'd love to address it, but I never really paid much attention to what they were offering vs not offering that my opinion would be of low value here.

In the end of the day, my point is this. If Lucid led off with delivering the PURE models, and then the Touring, would the lack of window screens (and interior fabrics, etc) still be considered "decontenting" or would it be considered adding content to a more expensive trim line beyond horsepower?

100% this. People have been making all sorts of assumptions ever since I came to this forum. I and others have constantly tried to get them to see that they were setting themselves up for disappointment, but they've refused to listen. And now they're screaming bloody murder.

Massage seats in Touring. Horsepower in the AWD Pure. Dream Drive features. Who gets the tax credit after the rules changes. These are just a few of the things many of us have tried desperately to get people to understand were anything but guaranteed. But every time reality sets in, we have a handful of grumpy people insisting all these things were "promised" to them. It's exhausting. But I don't see it changing anytime soon, unfortunately.

When people say Lucid could be more clear about communicating all these things, I always agree. But it is what it is. And it doesn't take away from the fact that a whole lot of wishful thinking goes on here that almost always leads to anger and frustration.

 

[eherlihy1]

I have never stated that I was canceling my order, I only quoted others in their statement that the process seems obscure. I have just taken the advice above and asked if it is possible for me to cancel my confirmed order and get my $300 back. I will advise with what I learn.

 

[Tesla2.0]

I have never stated that I was canceling my order, I only quoted others in their statement that the process seems obscure. I have just taken the advice above and asked if it is possible for me to cancel my confirmed order and get my $300 back. I will advise with what I learn.

I was replying your quote for “from another member in another thread”.

I apologize I replied vaguely to cause misunderstanding. But it was too late for me to update after I posted it.

 

[eherlihy1]

All good, and thanks for the clarification.

 

[Halodde]

I think most of us are on the same page here. Some of what we are witnessing is likely a result of what we assumed. But some is not. Lucid has at least occasionally changed available features and specs after they made initial statements publicly. One simple example is that there was supposed to be only ONE original dream edition with over 1000 HP and over 500 miles of range. For reasons I could only guess at, they changed on the fly to having 2 dream editions. One had over 1000 HP and one had over 500 miles of range. But neither had both. Clearly, they had plans that they couldn't fulfil which is unfortunate.

Now, don't give me a hard time saying I'm being negative. I'm not being negative. I'm simply pointing out that some of our expectations were reasonable based on information that was provided by lucid that turned out to inaccurate. New company, new products... it happens- primarily PR and marketing get involved before development has reached sufficient levels.

It also occurred to me that for Touring and Pure, we never had spec sheets on standard equipment before they announced price increases. So, that leads to speculation that due to production costs being higher than they were initially, Lucid might not have put all of the features in these trim levels that they had initially planned to. But, we would have no way of knowing that since they never said what they were putting in those cars before the price increase earlier this year. Food for thought for everyone lamenting the lack of massage seats etc...

 

[eherlihy1]

I have never stated that I was canceling my order, I only quoted others in their statement that the process seems obscure. I have just taken the advice above and asked if it is possible for me to cancel my confirmed order and get my $300 back. I will advise with what I learn.

And the answer is: communicate with your SA, and tell them why you are canceling, and you should/may be able to get a refund. This will not be possible once a VIN is assigned.

 

[GEWC]

I think most of us are on the same page here. Some of what we are witnessing is likely a result of what we assumed. But some is not. Lucid has at least occasionally changed available features and specs after they made initial statements publicly. One simple example is that there was supposed to be only ONE original dream edition with over 1000 HP and over 500 miles of range. For reasons I could only guess at, they changed on the fly to having 2 dream editions. One had over 1000 HP and one had over 500 miles of range. But neither had both. Clearly, they had plans that they couldn't fulfil which is unfortunate.

Now, don't give me a hard time saying I'm being negative. I'm not being negative. I'm simply pointing out that some of our expectations were reasonable based on information that was provided by lucid that turned out to inaccurate. New company, new products... it happens- primarily PR and marketing get involved before development has reached sufficient levels.

It also occurred to me that for Touring and Pure, we never had spec sheets on standard equipment before they announced price increases. So, that leads to speculation that due to production costs being higher than they were initially, Lucid might not have put all of the features in these trim levels that they had initially planned to. But, we would have no way of knowing that since they never said what they were putting in those cars before the price increase earlier this year. Food for thought for everyone lamenting the lack of massage seats etc...

Was this years ago? When I made my reservation in November 2020 I'm pretty sure there were 2 different specs for the Dream Editions.