Lucid Air's Number One Software Issue?

[RONR]

Unusual buggy failures, warnings and faults aside, what do you think is the most pervasive day-to-day software frustration experienced by Lucid Air owners? I think it is the mobile app's inability to efficiently auto open the doors. Before anyone goes nuts, I know there are work-arounds such as carrying the fob and pushing in the door handles, but I want the ease and elegance of just using my phone. If only auto open worked as beautifully when you approach the car as auto close does when you walk away. It's not the end of the world. It never leaves me stranded. It just is the one thing that frustrates me daily, embarrasses me occasionally, and seems to be something that one really competent software engineer should be able to fix in a fairly short time. That's my number one. For me, waiting interminably for Android Auto pales in significance. Maybe I'm alone in this opinion. What tops your list?

This is an easy one for me. I have a 3.5 mos old Air where the Lucid Assistant has never worked correctly for more than two days. When it fails, neither the "Hey Lucid" command, nor the short press on the mic button will initialize the assistant. Often times, Apple CarPlay fails, as well, and a long press on the mic button won't initialize Siri even though the CarPlay interface acknowledges the mic button press with a blue outline on the screen. I've also had all audio functions crash, and Apple CarPlay crash. Sometimes, an Air Logo reset will restore functionality, but sometimes not. The same is true with a hard reset.

Functionally, when these capabilities fail, making/receiving phone calls needs to be done hands-on the phone (illegal in CA), nav addresses must be manually entered, etc... It's a safety issue and these are core capabilities of most cars -- even those costing tens of thousands of dollars less. My wife's 5 year old Hyundai Palisade has these functions and they've worked flawlessly since she got the car. My previous Tesla worked flawlessly, as well with these types of functions (except CarPlay which it didn't have).

I had a mobile tech come out on a call and he observed the issue, but couldn't find anything in the error logs. He suggested a Service Center visit. After 9 days in the shop, they told me that they couldn't find anything wrong and that everything was working perfectly. They suggested that I take videos of any future failures, which is ridiculous since their tech observed them and I'm not about to try and take photos or videos while driving. The "everything is perfect" lasted about 15 min with the Lucid Assistant and Apple CarPlay crashing on my way home.

I'm extremely frustrated and have escalated this to more senior levels at Lucid headquarters.

 

[SaaSManKS]

This is an easy one for me. I have a 3.5 mos old Air where the Lucid Assistant has never worked correctly for more than two days. When it fails, neither the "Hey Lucid" command, nor the short press on the mic button will initialize the assistant. Often times, Apple CarPlay fails, as well, and a long press on the mic button won't initialize Siri even though the CarPlay interface acknowledges the mic button press with a blue outline on the screen. I've also had all audio functions crash, and Apple CarPlay crash. Sometimes, an Air Logo reset will restore functionality, but sometimes not. The same is true with a hard reset.

Functionally, when these capabilities fail, making/receiving phone calls needs to be done hands-on the phone (illegal in CA), nav addresses must be manually entered, etc... It's a safety issue and these are core capabilities of most cars -- even those costing tens of thousands of dollars less. My wife's 5 year old Hyundai Palisade has these functions and they've worked flawlessly since she got the car. My previous Tesla worked flawlessly, as well with these types of functions (except CarPlay which it didn't have).

I had a mobile tech come out on a call and he observed the issue, but couldn't find anything in the error logs. He suggested a Service Center visit. After 9 days in the shop, they told me that they couldn't find anything wrong and that everything was working perfectly. They suggested that I take videos of any future failures, which is ridiculous since their tech observed them and I'm not about to try and take photos or videos while driving. The "everything is perfect" lasted about 15 min with the Lucid Assistant and Apple CarPlay crashing on my way home.

I'm extremely frustrated and have escalated this to more senior levels at Lucid headquarters.

Well said

 

[JeffSter]

It's the receivers in the car. Not enough of them, or a poor choice of antenna placement.

Any correlation between wrapped cars and more problems with all the e-keys?

 

[Clyde2575]

I don't use Sirius nor Spotify but I do use Tidal, Bluetooth (VLC on phone) and FM -- and for all three of those, whenever I get in the car, I just hit the Pause/Play button on the steering wheel, and the car resumes whatever I was last listening too, no menus no nothin'. Have you tried with with SiriusXM?

I do this with Spotify and it works fine. I like that it starts whatever I last played on whatever device it was on. So if I’m listening in my house on my smart speaker when I get out to the car, it resumes right where I left off in the house.

 

[DeaneG]

Any correlation between wrapped cars and more problems with all the e-keys?

I wouldn't think a wrap would make any difference at all.

 

[BS8899]

I wouldn't think a wrap would make any difference at all.

My 2022 AGT is PPF'ed. Yes, it has frequent mobile key problems, but I don't think PPF has anything to do with it.

As I posted before, I have a R1S and a AGT. I have two homes. Both cars are garaged in the same garage(s). The R1S (literally) never had any mobile key problem but the Lucid have fits-and-starts with the mobile key. In my AZ home, my garage is not attached to the house. It is probably 100ft or more away from my bedroom/office where I have my phone/mobile key. As such, the cars (R1S and AGT) don't see the key. In contrast, my CA home has a bedroom/ office right over the garage. As a result, the AGT sees the mobile key all the time. How do I know? Because the Lucid App tells me the mobile key is disabled because it is present all the time (in the proximity) when I am in my CA home. If true (and I blieve it is true), I don't think my AGT has any problem seeing the Bluettoth signal from my phone.

Therefore, I am skeptical about the theories of weak Bluetooth, WiFi interference, or poor antenna placement in the Lucid AGT.

In an earlier post, I speculated that while there are multiple ways to unlock the AGT (Bleutooth, FOB, keycard, Cellular (Lucid App)), they all go though the computer. And there is ONE (set) of electro-mechnical solenoid that bolts the doors shut. To my understanding, the solennoid is controlled by the computer.

Thus, I call into question the theories about weak Bluetooth, antenna placement, WiFi interference, etc.. To me, it looks like a SW problem vis-a-vis, the computer fails to activate the solendid to unlock the car.

I'd love to hear other user's experience and theories.

 

[MGRMLN]

Lucid has basically admitted the proximity key on Airs was not optimal due to a supplier issue.
Simple as that. Sadly, not a lot they can do at this point. I know the Gravity has a vastly different key and a different supplier so hopefully they have addressed it.
To minimize issues, I would carry the fob.

 

[L-Dude]

I love hearing people say things like this because it makes it very clear they have never tried to implement a full Bluetooth stack (and if you have, I'm sorry for my assumption, but respectfully, I completely disagree). Bluetooth sucks. UWB is better, but bluetooth, like time zones and people's names, always sucks.

One factor is Bluetooth is on the 2.4GHz band, and WiFi on that band is many times more powerful - so Bluetooth packets can only get through in the gaps between Wifi transmissions. Also the short wavelength (~10cm) means the RF bounces and refracts all over the place, often resulting in small dead spots where devices fail to communicate (and the dead spots move about as the environment changes, i.e. people moving around).

As a result, getting anything through relies on lots of error handling. It's also not helped by lying user interfaces telling you a device is connected when snooping packets manifestly shows its not (looking at you, Apple).

Bluetooth can be pretty reliable - in RF-quiet environments. Low data rate stuff with error handlng/repeat transmissions often works by getting through during periods when there happen to be few interfering signals. Trying to use BT for relatively high rate date (e.g. audio) with lots of nearby wireless access points is always going to be hit and miss.

As an interesting experiment, take a connected bluetooth speaker and put it in a microwave oven (without turning it on, and if there is any question of it being on, unplug it). You will find that the bluetooth connection is nearly instantly broken by the shielding when the door is closed.

Bluetooth also has to put up with leaky microwave ovens, in addition to other users of the 2.4GHz band.

Bluetooth sucks. Period.

So, reading between the lines here--and I'm not quite certain--are you saying that Bluetooth sucks?

 

[Bobby]

So, reading between the lines here--and I'm not quite certain--are you saying that Bluetooth sucks?

UWB is better suited for this purpose. Gravity has it, Air does not (currently).

 

[SaratogaLefty]

I think the number one software or possibly software/hardware issue is the phantom braking. This could result in a serious rear end collision if the driver is not quick enough on the accelerator to override the unexpected braking action.

 

[borski]

My 2022 AGT is PPF'ed. Yes, it has frequent mobile key problems, but I don't think PPF has anything to do with it.

As I posted before, I have a R1S and a AGT. I have two homes. Both cars are garaged in the same garage(s). The R1S (literally) never had any mobile key problem but the Lucid have fits-and-starts with the mobile key. In my AZ home, my garage is not attached to the house. It is probably 100ft or more away from my bedroom/office where I have my phone/mobile key. As such, the cars (R1S and AGT) don't see the key. In contrast, my CA home has a bedroom/ office right over the garage. As a result, the AGT sees the mobile key all the time. How do I know? Because the Lucid App tells me the mobile key is disabled because it is present all the time (in the proximity) when I am in my CA home. If true (and I blieve it is true), I don't think my AGT has any problem seeing the Bluettoth signal from my phone.

Therefore, I am skeptical about the theories of weak Bluetooth, WiFi interference, or poor antenna placement in the Lucid AGT.

In an earlier post, I speculated that while there are multiple ways to unlock the AGT (Bleutooth, FOB, keycard, Cellular (Lucid App)), they all go though the computer. And there is ONE (set) of electro-mechnical solenoid that bolts the doors shut. To my understanding, the solennoid is controlled by the computer.

Thus, I call into question the theories about weak Bluetooth, antenna placement, WiFi interference, etc.. To me, it looks like a SW problem vis-a-vis, the computer fails to activate the solendid to unlock the car.

I'd love to hear other user's experience and theories.

Not doing this again.

 

[borski]

So, reading between the lines here--and I'm not quite certain--are you saying that Bluetooth sucks?

Yes. For key fobs especially. Fine for audio, though not the highest res.

 

[Cosmo Cruz]

The number one problem:
... the invention of a self-driving car is worth a fortune...

" ...that's not money."

 

[segbrk]

As a result, the AGT sees the mobile key all the time. How do I know? Because the Lucid App tells me the mobile key is disabled because it is present all the time (in the proximity) when I am in my CA home. If true (and I blieve it is true), I don't think my AGT has any problem seeing the Bluettoth signal from my phone.

Seeing the mobile key and unlocking are not equivalent. As I've explained here before, Bluetooth keying is not just "Bluetooth connected, so let's unlock" - it tries to use RSSI to approximate distance between your key and the car. Otherwise your car might unlock from a football field away, because Bluetooth can work at that distance - sometimes. My neighbor turned off proximity unlock in his R1S because it was unlocking and locking constantly as he walked around his house. Meanwhile, my Air is a similar distance (3-4ft) from my house and it has never once unlocked unless I'm outside next to it. Even if I walk right up to the window closest to it and hold my phone up. Clearly the systems are tuned (intentionally or by accident) differently.

And again it's not really Bluetooth that sucks, it's RSSI measurement as an indication of distance. You can have near "perfect" signal strength on the opposite side of your house from the car, then walk right up to the car and have practically no signal. It just doesn't work. You can massage it into working slightly better with a whole lot of heuristics, but you can't turn the into gold.

 

[JeffSter]

I wouldn't think a wrap would make any difference at all.

Just wondering about metallic style wraps maybe being radio reflective. My fiber fed neighborhood has tons of wi-fi and BT devices and is challenging at times. Considering repairing the direct 10 Base T wiring as the You Tube tv gets kinda slow sometimes. Off load the bandwidth thirsty items. Around here the frequencies can get busy.

 

[L-Dude]

Yes. For key fobs especially. Fine for audio, though not the highest res.

I was trying to make a joke, since you mentioned specificially 87 times that Bluetooth sucks. I'll keep my day job...

 

[borski]

I was trying to make a joke, since you mentioned specificially 87 times that Bluetooth sucks. I'll keep my day job...

I should have read it later lol, I think I had 'morning brain'

 

[AbhinavAir]

I will start by admitting that I did not read every single response to this thread.

But, one of my biggest gripes apart from the difficulties of the door unlock which have deffnitely been mentioned here, is the inability to properly use the wallet card as a valet key. I do not take my fob with me every time I drive the car, but the wallet key is with me at all times. If I have to valet the car, or even give the car to the car wash guys, I have to remember to take my key fob because the valet key is useless. Am I doing something wrong here?

@Buffalo Bob this is a fantastic thread to start! Kudos to you!

 

[Bobby]

I will start by admitting that I did not read every single response to this thread.

But, one of my biggest gripes apart from the difficulties of the door unlock which have deffnitely been mentioned here, is the inability to properly use the wallet card as a valet key. I do not take my fob with me every time I drive the car, but the wallet key is with me at all times. If I have to valet the car, or even give the car to the car wash guys, I have to remember to take my key fob because the valet key is useless. Am I doing something wrong here?

@Buffalo Bob this is a fantastic thread to start! Kudos to you!

How is the card key useless? It works as designed.

 

[AbhinavAir]

How is the card key useless? It works as designed.

More than likely, its a lack of understanding on my part. But my assumption is that the wallet key is for valet use, and if that's the case, then why do I need to give them my code? I would imagine the simpler idea would be that if there is no authorized phone or key fob in the car, and only the wallet key, then the car automatically goes into valet mode (lock gloevebox/frunk/trunk access, and maybe limit speed). In case my phone dies, and I have my wallet key, then I can input my code to get access to glovebox/frunk/trunk.