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Lucid Air Production Delay

jsharpe

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I assume this was a problem unique to that particular car, or something more widespread that was corrected with a software update?

I have a 2015 Model S, and I've driven my brother's 2018 Model 3, and we both love the one-pedal driving and the seamless transition from regenerative to friction braking.
Yes, it was specific to that individual car. But since it wasn’t mine I didn’t want to go changing settings. I don’t think the owners were even aware that the behavior wasn’t “normal” and had just gotten used to it.
 

hmp10

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Later model Teslas than mine (and maybe my brother's) allow the driver to dial up the level of regenerative braking. I wonder if Tesla got overly-aggressive with that elevated setting?

There are three great things about my Tesla that I want in my next EV:

1. The torque and smoothness of the electric powertrain -- Lucid has that covered in spades.

2. The fluidity and ease of modulation of (at least my) Tesla's one-pedal driving -- Lucid has confirmed they're going to have one-pedal driving. Since so many ex-Tesla engineers are working on the car, I hope they can match the Tesla in that regard.

3. The Google Earth view on the big center screen -- Lucid's largest screen is not as large as Tesla's, so it starts a bit behind the 8-ball there. Lucid has not confirmed whether the Air will or won't have a Google Earth display. I asked Zak Edson about it in Miami. He seemed hesitant to give me a hard "no" but said the car didn't have it at that point of development. He said something sort of vague about maybe it's arriving later with a software update.

Speaking of big screens, has anyone seen the "hyperscreen" that will be an option for the Mercedes EQS? It's a bit over the top, but it's an OLED screen with an amazing navigational display.

The EV world is moving so fast that Lucid's repeated delays in getting the car to market continue to increase the risk that some of its features will seem already outdated at launch. Heads-up displays with navigational arrows overlaid on actual turns are already showing up on VW's. MB is using OLED display technology while Lucid speaks of a modular display that can be upgraded later. Musk is marginally leapfrogging Lucid (or so he claims) on range and acceleration with the Plaid+ and, unless he puts a gigantic battery pack in it, will apparently catch up on overall efficiency. The Taycan will likely retain the crown it seized at launch for handling dynamics.

The style and quality of Lucid's interior may remain the biggest things setting them apart, but MB may well match them on those scores with the EQS, and the EQS will almost certainly match or beat Lucid on interior room. (Not finding someplace else to put the four extra modules of the larger battery pack took them out of the running against big German sedans for rear passenger comfort.)

Given the spartan (and weird) interior of the new Model S and its cramped rear seat, the lackluster acceleration and range of the EQS, the software problems VW can't seem to shake, and the limited range of the Taycan, the Lucid Air may still be the best overall melding of style, comfort, speed, and range . . . but it may no longer hold the lead on any single one of these factors by the time it finally launches.

The auto press have been regularly referring to the "2021 Lucid Air". I have a feeling that car will never arrive. By the time the Dream Edition finally launches later this year, the "2022 Mercedes EQS" will probably already be on the market, and Lucid will have to reset the model year.
 
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jsharpe

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Later model Teslas than mine (and maybe my brother's) allow the driver to dial up the level of regenerative braking. I wonder if Tesla got overly-aggressive with that elevated setting?
“Overly-aggressive” was a good way to describe that particular car. :) It was a strong enough affect that lifting off the accelerator when approaching a stop sign at 25mph would cause my passengers heads to throw forward.
On the flip side, I never cease to be thrilled with the torque available from almost any EV and looking at the numbers any of the Air’s will be among the best even without a third motor. I really like their engineering attention to efficiency, weight, charge speed etc. and can imagine what they might be able to do once solid state batteries become a thing.
 

Lucken

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My 2017 MS never had an issue with one pedal driving nor the transition from regenerative to friction braking. The drivetrain was seamless and a real blast to drive. However body integrity, suspension and materials quality were squarely in the negative column.

We're headed down to Florida in April for a couple of weeks, so I'm going to try and make a point of visiting one of the Lucid showplaces. I've yet to see the car in person.
 

hmp10

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We're headed down to Florida in April for a couple of weeks, so I'm going to try and make a point of visiting one of the Lucid showplaces. I've yet to see the car in person.
The car in West Palm Beach has the smaller battery pack (and thus the "foot garages"), and the car in Miami has the larger battery pack with the footwells filled in. They differ considerably in rear seating comfort, if that is a significant issue for you.
 

hmp10

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The Lucid Air was slated to launch with a Mobileye EyeQ4 chip which enables ADAS Level 3. However, Mobileye's EyeQ5 chip, with 10x the computing power and ADAS Level 4-5 capability, was due to launch this month. I'm wondering if the production delay for the Dream Edition will allow Lucid to use the EyeQ5 chip in the cars, thereby enabling the car to progress beyond Level 3 ADAS when software advances enable that?

I asked Lucid Sales the question, but they didn't know. Perhaps someone from Lucid can answer the question here?
 

Alex

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The Lucid Air was slated to launch with a Mobileye EyeQ4 chip which enables ADAS Level 3. However, Mobileye's EyeQ5 chip, with 10x the computing power and ADAS Level 4-5 capability, was due to launch this month. I'm wondering if the production delay for the Dream Edition will allow Lucid to use the EyeQ5 chip in the cars, thereby enabling the car to progress beyond Level 3 ADAS when software advances enable that?

I asked Lucid Sales the question, but they didn't know. Perhaps someone from Lucid can answer the question here?
If you listen the the following video where Peter Rawlinson talks about self driving, you will get the gist that they are aiming for level 2+ currently, with level 3 possible in the future. No mention of Mobileye:
 

hmp10

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Your post reminded me that there was a report last July that, although Mobileye had been working with Lucid on ADAS, Lucid has since gone its own way. Apparently for the production car they have sourced components from Continental and Bosch and mapping and telematics from the Dutch firm Here. However, Lucid has undertaken the integration of those sourced parts and data themselves.

I'm wondering if that has not worked out so well, and that's why Rawlinson is now talking about its making more sense for Lucid to focus on making cars and let outside specialists tackle the immense challenges of ADAS -- hence his recent outreach/teaser to the likes of Apple?

I'm also wondering if potholes in ADAS development are among the reasons for the delay in Air production?

"E for Electric" posted a recent video which discussed the history of the early Mobileye/Tesla partnership. Alex Guberman, who is generally well-informed, said that the partnership broke down when Mobileye refused to acquiesce in Musk's desire even back then to test beta autopilot systems with actual owners on public roads -- the trajectory he is currently on with full self driving. Guberman claims that Mobileye's current ADAS technology is every bit as good at where Tesla currently is with its heavily-hyped FSD. The only reason we aren't hearing much about it is that Mobileye still refuses to release ADAS systems to the public that are not yet fully developed, whereas Musk repeatedly tries to sell his wine before its time -- as he has been doing (at $8-10,000 a pop) for over a year now with FSD.

I think it is to Lucid's credit that they are promising nothing beyond eventual Level 3 ADAS in their new production run. Lucid owners will probably have true Level 3 ADAS well before Tesla drivers have the Level 4 Musk keeps teasing for year end and the Level 5 (cars without steering wheels or pedals) within two years afterward.

I have an older Tesla, and my brother has a newer Tesla with the full complement of ADAS hardware that Musk claims will be sufficient for FSD. Neither of our cars, both of which are kept updated with new software releases, can operate on Autopilot without a hand on the wheel at all times (i. e., Level 2). The notion that Tesla is going to leap straight from Level 2 to Level 4 in the coming several months is, uh, ludicrous.
 
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hmp10

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In November 2020 "Car & Driver" published an article that said the Air Pure would begin deliveries in early 2022. A new report from "The Motley Fool" says that date has now been pushed out to early 2023: https://www.fool.com/investing/2021/04/29/heres-when-lucid-motors-will-launch-its-70000-air/

I'm wondering if this is because Lucid has enough reservations for the higher-priced models to keep the factory busy through 2022 or whether it means production delays are expected to run even longer than previously suggested?
 

Alex

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The article says, "In the interview, Rawlinson said that Lucid's plan is to offer the Lucid Air Pure trim approximately 18 months after the Dream Edition enters production." I think that was the plan all along, wasn't it.
 

hmp10

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I'm not sure. This article was published today based on a recent interview with the BBC, and it was reporting the 2023 date as something currently newsworthy. I don't remember seeing an 18-month span before starting Pure production mentioned anywhere else.

A "Silicon Valley Business Journal" article on February 23 reported the announcement of the production delay of the Dream Edition to the second half of 2021 but still said that all four versions of the car would enter production during 2022. (https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose...-says-first-deliveries-have-been-delayed.html)
 

Draw007

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I'm not sure. This article was published today based on a recent interview with the BBC, and it was reporting the 2023 date as something currently newsworthy. I don't remember seeing an 18-month span before starting Pure production mentioned anywhere else.

A "Silicon Valley Business Journal" article on February 23 reported the announcement of the production delay of the Dream Edition to the second half of 2021 but still said that all four versions of the car would enter production during 2022. (https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose...-says-first-deliveries-have-been-delayed.html)
Sure hope this is accurate. Automakers are dropping new EVs what seems like weekly. Things are starting to heat up…
 

hmp10

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Just got an email from Rivian saying that first deliveries of the R1T pickup will begin in July. This is a delay from the June date that had been set when the original fall 2020 date was delayed. The email said it would be "spring of 2022" before all the Launch Edition orders were filled for the pickup. There was no mention of whether the August delivery start of the R1S (which I have reserved) still holds. I was asked to update my configuration and the address at which I want delivery, since Rivian is going to sequence deliveries based not only on age of reservation but on color and options choices and delivery location as well.

Also, Rivian announced that their first customer test drives wouldn't begin until August and, unfortunately for me, no Florida location was on the list of test drive sites that would be first to open. (Florida was the first state outside of California where Lucid opened Design Studios -- two, even -- and Florida is a big pickup/SUV state. Apparently Rivian is finding relatively less interest in its products in Florida than Lucid is finding in the Air.)

Interestingly, Rivian is still making configuration changes at this late stage. Both vehicles have had some off-roading features removed from the base packages, with the price being lowered $2,000 and the off-roading features now an option.
 

Lucken

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So let me get this straight, some customers can theoretically get delivery on a vehicle that was never available for a test drive? No thanks. I'm not interested in that vehicle anyway, but that's surely an odd way of doing business.
 

hmp10

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So let me get this straight, some customers can theoretically get delivery on a vehicle that was never available for a test drive?
Not only will there apparently be no test drives by the time delivery starts, unless something changes in June there won't even be any reports from auto journalists who have conducted independent test drives of the vehicle.

On the other hand, I don't know whether early orders of the Porsche Taycan, the Jaguar I-Pace, the Ford Mach-E, etc. got test drives before deliveries of those vehicles started.
 

Lucken

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The word 'crazy' comes to mind. I do know the Mach-E was available for test drives prior to release...at least in some areas. The I-Pace & Taycan I'm not sure.
 

hmp10

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Rvian sent out the email about R1T deliveries overnight. The first post about it showed up on the Rivian forum at 6:38 this morning with the start of a new thread. There are now 156 posts on that thread.
 

jsharpe

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Rvian sent out the email about R1T deliveries overnight. The first post about it showed up on the Rivian forum at 6:38 this morning with the start of a new thread. There are now 156 posts on that thread.
:). It's amazing how little things can spark a conversation. Yesterday about 3pm someone in one of the Bronco forums someone posted a completely useless message that Ford will be sending out a message to all message holders today. As I write this about 16hrs later that thread 40 pages long (about 600 messages) and counting up faster than you can refresh.
 

hmp10

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Rivian just sent out a letter to reservation holders announcing the third production delay since last fall. Their launch edition pickup truck was originally going to be released in September 2020, which became June 2021, which became July 2021, which just became September 2021. They are citing continuing disruptions in the supply chain.

I wonder if this augurs anything for the Lucid launch, as they are also citing supply chain disruptions.

The extended lease on my 2015 Tesla expires tomorrow. We were at the Tesla service center yesterday to pick the car up from having one last service visit under warranty. A customer was taking delivery of a new white Model S Long Range with the updated design (and which now has the powertrain of the earlier Performance version). The car was beautiful and, as I'm getting more and more leery of the promised deliveries of the Lucid Air and the Rivian R1S I have reserved, we ordered a new Model S ourselves. Delivery is expected in September.

We're still planning to get the Lucid Air Dream Edition at this point. But I'm pulling my Rivian reservation and keeping our Honda minivan for another cycle. When Rivian comes out with the extended-range battery pack they have promised, I might consider swapping the Honda for the Rivian at that point.
 

Lucken

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I’ve always liked the exterior of the MS. It was the reason my 2017 MS became my first BEV.

However I couldn’t order a new one if they are only shipping with that new steering wheel. I really consider it a safety issue and I think it’s going to bite Tesla in the rear. I guarantee, under emergency maneuvers, it will result in accidents. I’m assuming they give you the option for a normal one?

My other concern is the obvious fit and finish issues. That still scares me.

With that said, it’s still a more viable option than most BEVs…if it has a normal steering wheel. ;)
 
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