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Lucid Air Production Delay

hmp10

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The "Silicon Valley Business Journal" had this account of why Lucid has pushed the production of the Dream Edition (and presumably subsequent versions?) further out:

"Lucid CEO Peter Rawlinson was 'pushing like crazy to make the first deliveries in spring' until he took a ride in the first car off the company's Arizona assembly line, he said Tuesday in an interview with Bloomberg. Accompanying him on the ride was Alan Mullaly, the former CEO of Ford who is now an operating partner with Churchill Capital Corp. IV, Lucid 's merger partner. After the ride, Rawlinson, Mullaly and Michael Klein, the New York financier who founded Churchill, met to discuss the possible merger and rollout timetable. They said, 'Peter, why are you pushing like crazy for this artificial date in the spring? What's really important here is to get the quality right,' Rawlinson said. "They freed me.'"

Before the merger was announced on Monday, Lucid sent an email to "Yahoo Money" which contained the assertion that, "Currently, our focus continues to be on bringing Lucid Air to production in Spring of this year . . . ." By the time of the merger announcement a few hours later, the tune had apparently changed.

That must have been some bumpy ride with Mullaly. I wonder what the quality problems were that caused a decision to delay roll out.
 

WildRide47

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Better to get them fixed now than have disappointed buyers who dissuade others from future purchase.
 

hmp10

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Better to get them fixed now than have disappointed buyers who dissuade others from future purchase.
I agree. However, I wonder what the problems are they are trying to address with this delay.

I watched Peter Rawlinson's interview with CNBC more carefully to focus on what he said about making the decision to delay as a result of input from Alan Mullaly after a ride in the car. It was not clear whether he was talking about quality problems or other types of issues that still need addressing. Whatever they were, it seems they were apparent enough on a drive to trigger a discussion about production delay.

There are several issues that Lucid has already acknowledged related to design or engineering. I was told at the West Palm Beach Design Studio that, after numerous incidents of people bumping their heads on the roof rails, Lucid was going to try to reconfigure the rail trim to reduce the intrusion. I was also told on that visit that Lucid has not published weight figures for the car because they're still trying to shave a few pounds off it. I was told in earlier conversations with HQ Sales Associates that Lucid was assessing several possible approaches to improving the rear seating position with the larger battery pack. The Dream Edition will not have power-operated doors that are to be introduced in less-expensive models once sensor issues are worked out. The rear center armrest design was not yet locked down at the time I visited the Miami Design Studio.

I'm wondering if Mullaly was referring to any of these issues as still needing resolution or whether he was referring to software, driving, and/or fit and finish issues with the car.
 

jsharpe

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... I was told in earlier conversations with HQ Sales Associates that Lucid was assessing several possible approaches to improving the rear seating position with the larger battery pack. ...
That's huge news for me. Hopefully they can figure out out to relocate those cells. I would be happy to lose some storage space in order to free up the rear foot well. lMO since they mainly want to compare the Air to a Mercedes S-Class as opposed to a Tesla Model S that is something that must be addressed. The rear seating is comparable to the S-Class only with the smaller battery.
 
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Lucken

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Another way to look at this is it's a bit disappointing the car might have been coming to market with the flaws they later decided were enough to push back the debut. If Mullaly had not taken that ride, would the original market date (and flaws) have remained as it was?
 

hmp10

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That's huge news for me. Hopefully they can figure out out to relocate those cells.
Unfortunately, I think the boat sailed a long time ago on relocating the extra four modules of the larger battery pack. My sense from talking to Sales Associates was that they were toying with things such as changing rear setback angles, using more compliant seat foam, cupping out the bottoms of the front seats for more toe room, even playing with carpet configurations, etc.

I have long familiarity with the backseats of S-Class Mercedes, 7 Series BMW's, and Audi A8s, and I have sat in the backseats of Lucid Airs with both the larger and smaller battery packs. You are absolutely right that only the smaller battery pack affords rear seating comfort approaching the big German sedans. However, we drove our Tesla Model S across state over to Miami to check out the Air with the larger battery pack. While the rear floorboard was as high relative to the bottom seat cushion as in the Tesla, the Lucid did have noticeably more longitudinal (front-to-back) legroom. The person who rode over in the rear seat of the Tesla sat in the back seat of the Lucid while the other two of us put the driver and front passenger seats into positions similar to where we were situated in the Tesla, and the rear passenger found the Lucid considerably more commodious, although his knees were still a bit jacked up. (Heck, I'm 5'7", and my knees were jacked up in the backseat.)

We had our 6'1" driver position the driver seat for maximum comfort, and Zak Edson, Lucid's Retail manager who is 6'6", got in behind him. While Zak's knees were jacked up quite a bit, he had several inches between his knees and the front seat. That would not have happened in the Tesla. But still, the vertical leg drop in the big German sedans (and in the Air with the smaller battery pack) makes a major difference in seating comfort. Even with a cabin as long as the Lucid's, backseat passengers simply don't have the room that front passengers have to stretch their legs forward to deal with the high front floorboard.
 

Lucken

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So I just received an email on the latest & greatest at Lucid. Here's the operative paragraph regarding the delay:

"Yet despite the excellent progress made in all areas, we now know that we won’t be able to start delivering Lucid Air this spring at the level of quality we insist on providing. Be assured, we won’t rest until we have you behind the wheel of your Lucid Air."

Rawlinson also blames the delay on Covid and supplier issues. It is what it is.
 

hmp10

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It's been five full days since anyone posted on this forum. I'm wondering if the recently-announced production delay has diminished interest in the Lucid Air.

I reserved an Air in September 2018, thinking the car was about a year away. It now appears my wait will top three years and, frankly, I'm getting tired of it.

I reserved a Rivian R1S in February 2019, and it appears it will be delivered before the Lucid. I'm now on the fence about keeping my Lucid reservation. If I do get the Rivian before the Lucid, it might sate my craving for a new EV enough for me to wait to see what Mercedes does with an AMG version of its upcoming EQS or whether Lucid brings a tri-motor Air to market sometime in 2022.
 

WildRide47

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It's been five full days since anyone posted on this forum. I'm wondering if the recently-announced production delay has diminished interest in the Lucid Air.

I reserved an Air in September 2018, thinking the car was about a year away. It now appears my wait will top three years and, frankly, I'm getting tired of it.

I reserved a Rivian R1S in February 2019, and it appears it will be delivered before the Lucid. I'm now on the fence about keeping my Lucid reservation. If I do get the Rivian before the Lucid, it might sate my craving for a new EV enough for me to wait to see what Mercedes does with an AMG version of its upcoming EQS or whether Lucid brings a tri-motor Air to market sometime in 2022.
 

WildRide47

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Since no new information has come out, I believe that there is nothing to comment on that has not already been said. The flow of information by Lucid will determine whether this board becomes more active. I am also waiting for more data from Lucid. So far, just quiet. Would help if Lucid would become more of a participant on this post. Would help drum up more interest. They advertise, then refer you to their website, but that has remained unchanged for quite awhile.
 

hmp10

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Since no new information has come out, I believe that there is nothing to comment on that has not already been said.
I also have a reservation for a Rivian R1S and watch the Rivian forum closely. Rivian is not putting any more new information out about its vehicles than Lucid is, but the Rivian forums remain active. In fact, there are quite a few complaints on the Rivian forum that details on many features are still being held back with the order configurators already open and pickup deliveries set to start in June.

Also, Rivian is still several months away from opening its first showroom (which will be in Chicago), while Lucid has already opened six. I would have thought that having near-production cars available for examination would have generated more visits to this forum and discussion about the car.

Would help if Lucid would become more of a participant on this post. Would help drum up more interest.
Yep. I don't think Lucid watches this site very closely. When advertising spam shows up in the posts, I promptly report it, but it sometimes takes three days for the administrator to take the spam down.

Interestingly, even taking the merger hubbub out of the equation, more new Lucid Air videos pop up on YouTube every week than do for the Rivian R1S, so auto industry observers are certainly paying attention. It's just potential buyers that seem to be yawning . . . or lacking.

They advertise, then refer you to their website, but that has remained unchanged for quite awhile.
I don't think that's going to change. The Lucid website went virtually unchanged for a couple of years in the run-up to the September 2020 reveal. I was told by Lucid Sales that the website would be completely overhauled at that point and then remain static again.

I was a lone wolf among my friends when I bought a Tesla in 2015. These days more and more of my friends and acquaintances are looking at buying their first EV, and when I bring up Lucid as an option to those who could afford it, they have never heard of it. They have heard a lot about the Porsche Taycan and Audi E-Tron, a fair bit about the Mercedes EQS, and even something about Rivian.

A few weeks ago I called a local detailer who applies ceramic coatings to high end cars and private aircraft to inquire about a new product (Opti-Coat Pro3) I was considering for the Lucid. Even he had never heard of it.
 

Lucken

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Reading all of this, does not make me overly optimistic. Honestly, if it wasn't for the meager range, I'd be seriously looking at the Audi E-Tron Sportback.
 

hmp10

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Since I've decided to proceed with the Rivian R1S, it'll give me the EV I want for comfortably hauling my aging friends around. With that in mind, I had started toying with getting a Taycan instead of an Air for my personal-plus-one driver -- until I remembered that Porsche chose not to offer one-pedal driving (and neither will Audi). That was one of the most pleasant surprises of getting an EV, and I feel so strongly about it that I will not buy an EV without it.

I have read that Porsche made this choice because it felt its drivers would be more comfortable with the familiar feel of friction braking (although regenerative braking will be activated by pressing the brake pedal). For the life of me, I can't figure out why they wouldn't give the driver a menu screen option for one-pedal driving. It's little more than a software matter.
 

WildRide47

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Since I've decided to proceed with the Rivian R1S, it'll give me the EV I want for comfortably hauling my aging friends around. With that in mind, I had started toying with getting a Taycan instead of an Air for my personal-plus-one driver -- until I remembered that Porsche chose not to offer one-pedal driving (and neither will Audi). That was one of the most pleasant surprises of getting an EV, and I feel so strongly about it that I will not buy an EV without it.

I have read that Porsche made this choice because it felt its drivers would be more comfortable with the familiar feel of friction braking (although regenerative braking will be activated by pressing the brake pedal). For the life of me, I can't figure out why they wouldn't give the driver a menu screen option for one-pedal driving. It's little more than a software matter.
I agree. I have driven the Taycan turbo. It is an impressive car, but I also prefer the one pedal driving

Unlike Lucid and the Audi GT, the Taycan does not have buttons or scrolls for the HVAC and volume controls. You have to go into sub menus while you are driving UGH.

Plus can't get over the abysmal range of the Taycan.

In addition, the optional thin noise insulated glass option blocks your radar detector from working. The coating interferes with its operation.

And finally the "B" pillar makes entry and exit difficult. Just to clarify, I am on my 5th Porsche(currently own a 2018 Panamera Turbo), so I am Porsche fan, not a hater. JW
 

hmp10

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Wow . . . didn't know that about the HVAC and volume controls. That's almost as bizarre as Tesla failing to put a second-row center armrest or any second-row storage in its "updated" Model X Plaid.

Regarding range, every review I've seen claims to have bettered the EPA range in real-world driving. Although the range will certainly be less than a Lucid Air, it'll probably get a lot closer to Tesla's claimed ranges than Musk will ever admit.

Edmunds, in fact, found that the Taycan exceeded its rated range in 60% city / 40% highway driving by the widest margin of any EV:

Screen Shot 2021-03-06 at 2.18.50 PM.png
 

jsharpe

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Since I've decided to proceed with the Rivian R1S, it'll give me the EV I want for comfortably hauling my aging friends around. With that in mind, I had started toying with getting a Taycan instead of an Air for my personal-plus-one driver -- until I remembered that Porsche chose not to offer one-pedal driving (and neither will Audi). That was one of the most pleasant surprises of getting an EV, and I feel so strongly about it that I will not buy an EV without it.

I have read that Porsche made this choice because it felt its drivers would be more comfortable with the familiar feel of friction braking (although regenerative braking will be activated by pressing the brake pedal). For the life of me, I can't figure out why they wouldn't give the driver a menu screen option for one-pedal driving. It's little more than a software matter.
+1 on everything you said with one qualification. I had the displeasure of driving a model Y with a misconfigured 1-pedal mode and it was completely horrible. It was way too aggressive when lifting on the pedal at low speed and basically impossible to do any reasonable kind of "civilized" stop. Imagine slamming on the brakes every time you lifted the accelerator pedal.
 

WildRide47

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Wow . . . didn't know that about the HVAC and volume controls. That's almost as bizarre as Tesla failing to put a second-row center armrest or any second-row storage in its "updated" Model X Plaid.

Regarding range, every review I've seen claims to have bettered the EPA range in real-world driving. Although the range will certainly be less than a Lucid Air, it'll probably get a lot closer to Tesla's claimed ranges than Musk will ever admit.

Edmunds, in fact, found that the Taycan exceeded its rated range in 60% city / 40% highway driving by the widest margin of any EV:

View attachment 79
I have read you lose 20-30% range if the temperature goes below 35 F. That is a big drop with a car that only gets 200-250+ mile range to begin with. Running the heater, going up hills and or aggressive driving further decreases range.
 

hmp10

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I had the displeasure of driving a model Y with a misconfigured 1-pedal mode and it was completely horrible.
I assume this was a problem unique to that particular car, or something more widespread that was corrected with a software update?

I have a 2015 Model S, and I've driven my brother's 2018 Model 3, and we both love the one-pedal driving and the seamless transition from regenerative to friction braking.
 

hmp10

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I have read you lose 20-30% range if the temperature goes below 35 F.
True. Living in south Florida I've never had to deal with this, and I sometimes forget it can be an issue. I think the cold weather penalty has dropped somewhat in the newer EVs that use heat pumps instead of resistance heaters, but it's still a factor in trip planning. Also, I've read some complaints that Tesla's new heat pumps do not heat the cabin sufficiently in really cold weather. In fact, I think some cars are using resistance coils as heater backup in truly frigid conditions.
 
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