How Much Range Are You Actually Getting?

[Sandvinsd]

For anyone who will only be satisfied with 100+% EPA under all conditions, then I agree this car isn’t for you.

The same is true for ICE vehicles. I have never seen one that really gets 100% of the EPA under all conditions.

 

[GEWC]

500+ miles in (hit the fabled 520 mark today ) and the best I've done between charges is 2.9 mi/kWh (GT on 21s). I charged from 35 to 80% yesterday at EA and then drove 25 miles to work, getting 2.8 mi/kWh. When I got back in my car a few hours later, it was down to 1.8, so the fans clearly kept running for a few hours. I typically drive 75-80 on the highway and haven't had to use too much AC since I picked up my car last week. Hoping the numbers get closer to 3.3 overall, but I guess we'll see over the next 2000 miles. Or maybe I need to slow down like I'm driving Ms Daisy...

What do your Trip numbers look like? Since last charge numbers include phantom loss, so if you want to see numbers for how you drive, look to the Trip numbers instead. I think this is important for people to note. You should see a difference between the two. SLC numbers always seem low with loss - even mine, yet my overall average with 3500+ miles is 4.1 mi/kwh. I have altered my EV habits because of this car. I no longer plug in every night. I get a lot less loss if I simply charge once a week, which is more than enough to meet my daily needs, plus a 100 mile scenic drive, all without going below 25%.

 

[Neurio]

What do your Trip numbers look like? Since last charge numbers include phantom loss, so if you want to see numbers for how you drive, look to the Trip numbers instead. I think this is important for people to note. You should see a difference between the two. SLC numbers always seem low with loss - even mine, yet my overall average with 3500+ miles is 4.1 mi/kwh. I have altered my EV habits because of this car. I no longer plug in every night. I get a lot less loss if I simply charge once a week, which is more than enough to meet my daily needs, plus a 100 mile scenic drive, all without going below 25%.

Last I looked, it was still 2.9 mi/kWh overall since I got the car. I can look again later when I'm in the car.

 

[Sandvinsd]

What do your Trip numbers look like? Since last charge numbers include phantom loss, so if you want to see numbers for how you drive, look to the Trip numbers instead. I think this is important for people to note. You should see a difference between the two. SLC numbers always seem low with loss - even mine, yet my overall average with 3500+ miles is 4.1 mi/kwh. I have altered my EV habits because of this car. I no longer plug in every night. I get a lot less loss if I simply charge once a week, which is more than enough to meet my daily needs, plus a 100 mile scenic drive, all without going below 25%.

The true efficiency has to include the phantom losses. For an ICE, it’s miles driven divided by gallons filled. An iCE does not drain the gas tank while sitting in the garage so one gets a real MPG. For an EV, it needs to be miles driven / kWh added. That includes any heat losses while charging, and phantom overnight losses due to fans running or the car waking up, etc. That way one is comparing apples to apples when looking at cost per mile in fuel costs between an EV and an ICE.

That said, there is also how far one can go on a charge. Once the battery is full and you are driving, the phantom looses of heat loss upon charging and the fans cooling the battery in the garage do not enter the equation. For that number, I want to know how many miles I can actually drive on a charge. Or, how far can I go until I need to charge again? Again, for an ICE, those numbers would be the same since you presumably are not spilling gas on the ground while filling and the tank is not dripping out gasoline overnight in the garage. For an EV, they are not. It is just a different way to have to think about efficiency and miles per kWh. Whenever I finally get the car, I will do a deeper dive into those two numbers and really see if the software is giving accurate numbers.

 

[Balin]

for me ... there was a noticeable change at 3600 !!

this post break-in period where there appears to be improvement in range / efficiency begs the question of whether Lucid or other EV manufacturers give the EPA a broken-in car to to test with. Having said that, some of the non-governmental folks who have attempted to recreate the EPA numbers have been successful, presumably with very early un broken-in vehicles...

 

[Demosthenes]

The same is true for ICE vehicles. I have never seen one that really gets 100% of the EPA under all conditions.

Agreed. I only mention this for the occasional individuals who believe that other EVs can consistently achieve 100%+ of their stated EPA. The lucid is the first EV I’ve owned, so I can’t personally support or deny those claims with other vehicles.

 

[Bill55]

Last I looked, it was still 2.9 mi/kWh overall since I got the car. I can look again later when I'm in the car.

Perhaps the Car and battery and driver start to look like each other as they age. I am at 2.9 average over 7000 miles. Easy math is 3.5 miles per 1% of charge. I'm not doing acceleration runs at ever stop, but I get up to speed quickly. I also don't use cruise much. It's rare that 280 miles I have at 80% charge would not be enough for any daily use for me.
I had an E60 V10 M5. I frequently would be in single digit mpg over a tankful of gas. Someone told me they babied their E60 around and got 16-18 mpg. My response. "Why in the hell would you want to do that?"

 

[GEWC]

The true efficiency has to include the phantom losses. For an ICE, it’s miles driven divided by gallons filled. An iCE does not drain the gas tank while sitting in the garage so one gets a real MPG. For an EV, it needs to be miles driven / kWh added. That includes any heat losses while charging, and phantom overnight losses due to fans running or the car waking up, etc. That way one is comparing apples to apples when looking at cost per mile in fuel costs between an EV and an ICE.

That said, there is also how far one can go on a charge. Once the battery is full and you are driving, the phantom looses of heat loss upon charging and the fans cooling the battery in the garage do not enter the equation. For that number, I want to know how many miles I can actually drive on a charge. Or, how far can I go until I need to charge again? Again, for an ICE, those numbers would be the same since you presumably are not spilling gas on the ground while filling and the tank is not dripping out gasoline overnight in the garage. For an EV, they are not. It is just a different way to have to think about efficiency and miles per kWh. Whenever I finally get the car, I will do a deeper dive into those two numbers and really see if the software is giving accurate numbers.

Very true. I only say this to the people who say they try to drive for better efficiency and see no difference. It could very well be drain that is causing the lower numbers, and there are things you can do, like I have done and @Coltonw011 has been testing out, to minimize it.

 

[Coltonw011]

There’s a reason I log it all and report it, because I believe the overall efficiency absolutely must include the charging losses. These aren’t phantom, these are known. It’s the BMS. My overall for 1700 miles is 4.2, my current on this charge is 3.8 over about 180 miles, including a 35 mile loss after DCFC. I report it all to customer care, and if I’m still having this type of loss after the break-in (which seems highly likely) they said they will look at it.

 

[Parachute Adams]

It's inevitable that battery tech will continue to evolve to the point where LCID's mileage advantage disappears---

CATL’s 1,000-Kilometer Range EV Battery Picked by Li Auto, Hozon

Chinese electric vehicle startups Li Auto Inc. and Hozon New Energy Automobile Co. emerged as the first customers of a new long-range battery that Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Ltd. unveiled Thursday and plans to start mass producing in 2023.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[DJL]

It's inevitable that battery tech will continue to evolve to the point where LCID's mileage advantage disappears---

CATL’s 1,000-Kilometer Range EV Battery Picked by Li Auto, Hozon

Chinese electric vehicle startups Li Auto Inc. and Hozon New Energy Automobile Co. emerged as the first customers of a new long-range battery that Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Ltd. unveiled Thursday and plans to start mass producing in 2023.

www.bloomberg.com

What you write could be very true. However, Lucid's battery structure is just one of many efficiency areas where Lucid has the advantage. They are not tied to the batteries they are currently using and could switch in the future to newer, more powerful batteries when they become available.

 

[DeaneG]

It's inevitable that battery tech will continue to evolve to the point where LCID's mileage advantage disappears---

CATL’s 1,000-Kilometer Range EV Battery Picked by Li Auto, Hozon

Chinese electric vehicle startups Li Auto Inc. and Hozon New Energy Automobile Co. emerged as the first customers of a new long-range battery that Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Ltd. unveiled Thursday and plans to start mass producing in 2023.

www.bloomberg.com

And it's notable that the new battery has a Chinese name, not South Korean, Japanese, or English.

 

[digiboxer]

What you write could be very true. However, Lucid's battery structure is just one of many efficiency areas where Lucid has the advantage. They are not tied to the batteries they are currently using and could switch in the future to newer, more powerful batteries when they become available.

Good to know--tho that sounds expensive for early buyers---

And it's notable that the new battery has a Chinese name, not South Korean, Japanese, or English.

For now...

 

[Bill55]

There are literally 1000’s of different batteries in development. Many have shown to be superior in the lab. Going from the lab to industrial scale production is no easy feat. There have been many billions spent on the machinery and process for the current cells. We will absolutely see more power density and faster charging as time goes on. I would not expect there will be anything significantly better for 2-3 years in the market place and then another 2-3 years to get scale. As already noted, the aerodynamics, motor efficiency, and 900v architecture will still be beneficial with a different battery chemistr.y. Automakers can’t keep up even with current technology. Lyriq is sold out till 2024.

 

[HC_79]

Trip from Santa Clarita to San Francisco Yesterday.

Average Outside Temp - 105 degrees
Cabin Temp - 68 (fan speed 6)
SOC leaving - 100%
SOC destination - 5%
Average 3.4Kw/h

 

[HC_79]

Trip from Santa Clarita to San Francisco Yesterday.

Average Outside Temp - 105 degrees
Cabin Temp - 68 (fan speed 6)
SOC leaving - 100%
SOC destination - 5%
Average 3.4Kw/h

View attachment 3029


View attachment 3030View attachment 3031View attachment 3032View attachment 3033

Average speed - 75mph

Overall, for 21” wheels I’m happy with the range this car is delivering. Given there were bursts of 80mph to 95mph also.

 

[DJL]

There are literally 1000’s of different batteries in development. Many have shown to be superior in the lab. Going from the lab to industrial scale production is no easy feat. There have been many billions spent on the machinery and process for the current cells. We will absolutely see more power density and faster charging as time goes on. I would not expect there will be anything significantly better for 2-3 years in the market place and then another 2-3 years to get scale. As already noted, the aerodynamics, motor efficiency, and 900v architecture will still be beneficial with a different battery chemistr.y. Automakers can’t keep up even with current technology. Lyriq is sold out till 2024.

Much of what you write is spot on. However, Sila is already building a large next-gen battery plant in Moses Lake, Washington. It has a contract to supply these batteries to Mercedes and BMW. To read an article of this, just click HERE. Thus, it may only be next year when we start seeing mi/kwh start to greatly improve in other EVs.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Perhaps the Car and battery and driver start to look like each other as they age. I am at 2.9 average over 7000 miles. Easy math is 3.5 miles per 1% of charge. I'm not doing acceleration runs at ever stop, but I get up to speed quickly. I also don't use cruise much. It's rare that 280 miles I have at 80% charge would not be enough for any daily use for me.
I had an E60 V10 M5. I frequently would be in single digit mpg over a tankful of gas. Someone told me they babied their E60 around and got 16-18 mpg. My response. "Why in the hell would you want to do that?"

I agree completely. I have enjoyed my BMWs but the new ones, including the electric I4 and IX, are truly ugly. Looking at the BMWs only increased my desire for a Lucid. But, I am comfortable waiting for Lucid to get to my Pure as my 5 series is very comfortable.

I am figuring that at a full charge I will normally have about 240 miles of range (20% off because it is best not to charge frequently above 80%) and another 25% off after that to account for spirited driving. But it is then a realistic 240 mile range and that I can work with.

 

[DJL]

Much of what you write is spot on. However, Sila is already building a large next-gen battery plant in Moses Lake, Washington. It has a contract to supply these batteries to Mercedes and BMW. To read an article of this, just click HERE. Thus, it may only be next year when we start seeing mi/kwh start to greatly improve in other EVs.

Bill55, I owe you an apology! I researched further the status of the factory and an article states that the factory will not start producting until 4th quarter of 24. Furthermore, article states:: "Battery technology company Sila announced the purchase of a new facility in Washington state that will see its next-generation battery chemistry in hundreds of thousands of electric vehicles by the end of 2026, according to the company". Thus, your estimate of 2 to 3 years is also spot on! Here is the article" click HERE.

 

[DBV]

I agree. How many people look at their mpg figures on their ICE cars every time they fill up? I will be using my air predominantly for trips under 300 miles so for me this is a no-brainer.

I look every time I fill up my wife‘s X5 Diesel and on my old 5 Series. Range is very important to me.