Help interpreting efficiency and range

[chinesejpl]

TESTED: 2022 Lucid Air Dream Sets New EV Range Record | Edmunds

Edmunds tests the all-new 2022 Lucid Air Dream Range to see how far it can go on a full battery charge. Its official EPA-estimated range is 520 miles, but EV range can vary in the real world. Here's how Lucid's first-ever vehicle fared in our testing.

www.edmunds.com

I'm wondering if someone can help me understand some of these results. According to this Edmunds article, they were able to achieve a real world range of 505 miles for the dream range edition car but then stated later in the article that their observed efficiency was 28.3kwh/100 miles. Would this mean that to travel their observed 505 miles, it would take 5.05x28.3 = almost 143kwh of power? I thought the dream edition cars had 118 kwh battery packs with GT's having 112? Am I missing or not understating something?

 

[borski]

TESTED: 2022 Lucid Air Dream Sets New EV Range Record | Edmunds

Edmunds tests the all-new 2022 Lucid Air Dream Range to see how far it can go on a full battery charge. Its official EPA-estimated range is 520 miles, but EV range can vary in the real world. Here's how Lucid's first-ever vehicle fared in our testing.

www.edmunds.com

I'm wondering if someone can help me understand some of these results. According to this Edmunds article, they were able to achieve a real world range of 505 miles for the dream range edition car but then stated later in the article that their observed efficiency was 28.3kwh/100 miles. Would this mean that to travel their observed 505 miles, it would take 5.05x28.3 = almost 143kwh of power? I thought the dream edition cars had 118 kwh battery packs with GT's having 112? Am I missing or not understating something?

Hm, that’s an interesting question. You’re right that the DE has a 118kWh pack.

Perhaps they’re accounting for charging losses? I’d be surprised if they were that high though, but who knows.

Or it’s a typo the math would make it 118 / 505 * 100 = 23.3, so I’d bet $10 it’s a typo.

 

[Adnillien]

Hm, that’s an interesting question. You’re right that the DE has a 118kWh pack.

Perhaps they’re accounting for charging losses? I’d be surprised if they were that high though, but who knows.

Or it’s a typo the math would make it 118 / 505 * 100 = 23.3, so I’d bet $10 it’s a typo.

If the 28.3kwh/100 miles came from the EPA, then the charging losses are included in that number.

 

[chinesejpl]

But when you read the article, it says that their observed efficiency of 28.3 was calculated after they charged the car to 100%?!

 

[hydbob]

TESTED: 2022 Lucid Air Dream Sets New EV Range Record | Edmunds

Edmunds tests the all-new 2022 Lucid Air Dream Range to see how far it can go on a full battery charge. Its official EPA-estimated range is 520 miles, but EV range can vary in the real world. Here's how Lucid's first-ever vehicle fared in our testing.

www.edmunds.com

I'm wondering if someone can help me understand some of these results. According to this Edmunds article, they were able to achieve a real world range of 505 miles for the dream range edition car but then stated later in the article that their observed efficiency was 28.3kwh/100 miles. Would this mean that to travel their observed 505 miles, it would take 5.05x28.3 = almost 143kwh of power? I thought the dream edition cars had 118 kwh battery packs with GT's having 112? Am I missing or not understating something?

Right. They got 505 miles of range and it took them 143kwh to charge the battery back to full, which includes charging losses. Every EV has charging losses and that's what they were measuring with their efficiency results.

 

[chinesejpl]

Right. They got 505 miles of range and it took them 143kwh to charge the battery back to full, which includes charging losses. Every EV has charging losses and that's what they were measuring with their efficiency results.

But then that suggests that the battery pack is 143kwh or that they didn't get to 505 miles in 1 single charge

 

[chinesejpl]

Edmunds has a long term AGT and I think that has an observed efficiency of 27.3kwh/100 miles, or so. Which doesn't equal to 505 miles on a dream edition car, at least not in a single charge

 

[hydbob]

But then that suggests that the battery pack is 143kwh or that they didn't get to 505 miles in 1 single charge

If you browse the EPA efficiency ratings you will see every single EV uses more kwh to charge the battery than the pack can hold. It doesn't mean the pack is larger, rather there are charging losses due to heat. Ac to DC conversion, etc.

 

[hydbob]

Edmunds has a long term AGT and I think that has an observed efficiency of 27.3kwh/100 miles, or so. Which doesn't equal to 505 miles on a dream edition car, at least not in a single charge

EVs Explained: Charging Losses

When adding energy to an EV's battery pack, more is expended than what makes it into the pack. How much varies considerably depending on the electrical output and ambient conditions.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[chinesejpl]

EVs Explained: Charging Losses

When adding energy to an EV's battery pack, more is expended than what makes it into the pack. How much varies considerably depending on the electrical output and ambient conditions.

www.caranddriver.com

right...good point. But would it be correct to include this in efficiency rating since this has nothing to do with the car but rather the loss associated with charging? Also, that seems quite high (i.e. 143-118 kwh = 25kwh of charging loss with a level 2 charger. Seems high even if it was DC fast charging). If the charging loss is really that high on a level 2 charger (i.e. what I have installed in my home) then that's quite surprising as it represents almost 20% loss.

 

[hydbob]

right...good point. But would it be correct to include this in efficiency rating since this has nothing to do with the car but rather the loss associated with charging? Also, that seems quite high (i.e. 143-118 kwh = 25kwh of charging loss with a level 2 charger. Seems high even if it was DC fast charging). If the charging loss is really that high on a level 2 charger (i.e. what I have installed in my home) then that's quite surprising as it represents almost 20% loss.

It's stated why they measure it, which is to give you a fair comparison to actual cost per mile you drive just like with an ICE car.

 

[Adnillien]

right...good point. But would it be correct to include this in efficiency rating since this has nothing to do with the car but rather the loss associated with charging? Also, that seems quite high (i.e. 143-118 kwh = 25kwh of charging loss with a level 2 charger. Seems high even if it was DC fast charging). If the charging loss is really that high on a level 2 charger (i.e. what I have installed in my home) then that's quite surprising as it represents almost 20% loss.

15% charging loss is typical. Level 2 charging has requires boosting the voltage up to the battery voltage and doing an AC to DC conversion. There are losses during the conversion and then there a losses charging the battery due to the internal resistance of the battery. While this charging loss is important for the cost of energy used, it does not impact the driving efficiency.

 

[chinesejpl]

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanations

 

[borski]

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanations

Just as a follow up, you’ll see some insane nonsense conspiracy theory videos from a certain guy named Warren if you look hard enough, claiming Lucid is lying about the size of the battery pack because of this; he refuses to believe that there are charging losses and it isn’t absolutely 1:1.

He’s wrong (and otherwise an idiotic assclown, also), so before you might ask about it, just wanted to give you a heads up.

 

[bhramabull]

So I had an amazing / eye popping experience today here in Phoenix. My lifetime average is 3.3 for about just over 7,000 miles and today the temps here went to 74F and my efficiency was an astonishing 4.2-4.3-4.5. I had the front drivers and passenger A/C on at 74F and 73F with fan speed at 1 and 3. Our dog in the back had the left and right A/C blasting for him at 70F each and fan speed of 6 for both. Is this normal? Oh and this was all in kinda stop and go street traffic going to a max of 60mph

 

[Steveinarizona]

So I had an amazing / eye popping experience today here in Phoenix. My lifetime average is 3.3 for about just over 7,000 miles and today the temps here went to 74F and my efficiency was an astonishing 4.2-4.3-4.5. I had the front drivers and passenger A/C on at 74F and 73F with fan speed at 1 and 3. Our dog in the back had the left and right A/C blasting for him at 70F each and fan speed of 6 for both. Is this normal? Oh and this was all in kinda stop and go street traffic going to a max of 60mph

Huge elevation changes in North Scottsdale. Did your trip involve elevation changes? If yes, round trip or one way and up or down?

 

[bhramabull]

Huge elevation changes in North Scottsdale. Did your trip involve elevation changes? If yes, round trip or one way and up or down?

Umm perhaps just ever so slightly driving on Scottsdale road itself from Dynamite to Scottsdale Quarter to be precise! And round trip - yes! It just was hovering between 4.3 and 4.5

 

[MHDave]

Umm perhaps just ever so slightly driving on Scottsdale road itself from Dynamite to Scottsdale Quarter to be precise! And round trip - yes! It just was hovering between 4.3 and 4.5

Remember you'll get the best range if you go mostly downhill both ways
When I was young I had to walk to school in the snow, a mile uphill both ways. At least that's what I tell my kids.

 

[Steveinarizona]

Umm perhaps just ever so slightly driving on Scottsdale road itself from Dynamite to Scottsdale Quarter to be precise! And round trip - yes! It just was hovering between 4.3 and 4.5

That could have been me yesterday in my GV60, I live near Scottsdale Quarter and I was at Troon North golfing. Considering the fact that there is a roughly 1,000 foot elevation change between Scottsdale Quarter and Dynamite Road you must have been coasting down and riding slowly up. On that road I am usually doing my 10 mph over the speed limit (hence 55 or 60).