Gravity Testing!

[hmp10]

Oh dear. This doesnt really bode well for structural rigidity, care to weigh in @hmp10 ?
However, i'm convinced they made the pillar thick enough, and it looks sexy AF.

I'm no engineer, but I doubt if window frames contribute anything to the structural rigidity of the body as they're not attached to the shell in any way.

Whether the doors themselves contribute anything to the structural rigidity would probably depend on the latching mechanism. Years ago, before GM introduced the hydro-formed box spine for the Corvette, GM was grappling with the legendary lack of torsional stiffness in the car. One of their approaches was a very robust door locking mechanism which transformed the doors into a stress-bearing part of the frame.

As far as I know, though, this approach remained unique to the Corvette. The Air certainly does not rely on it for stiffness.

 

[xponents]

I'm no engineer, but I doubt if window frames contribute anything to the structural rigidity of the body as they're not attached to the shell in any way.

Whether the doors themselves contribute anything to the structural rigidity would probably depend on the latching mechanism. Years ago, before GM introduced the hydro-formed box spine for the Corvette, GM was grappling with the legendary lack of torsional stiffness in the car. One of their approaches was a very robust door locking mechanism which transformed the doors into a stress-bearing part of the frame.

As far as I know, though, this approach remained unique to the Corvette. The Air certainly does not rely on it for stiffness.

I was thinking more on the premises of wind noise... it seems like that would be terrible.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I was thinking more on the premises of wind noise... it seems like that would be terrible.

You specifically said "This doesnt really bode well for structural rigidity" above - which is (a) nonsense, and (b) missing an apostrophe.

Now you're talking about wind noise due to frameless doors, which is also nonsense.

I really would encourage you to consider whether your posts contribute constructively to the topic at hand before hitting the "post" button. And perhaps spend more time in the "off topic" section of the forum (or even, perish the thought, outside).

 

[xponents]

You specifically said "This doesnt really bode well for structural rigidity" above - which is (a) nonsense, and (b) missing an apostrophe.

Now you're talking about wind noise due to frameless doors, which is also nonsense.

I really would encourage you to consider whether your posts contribute constructively to the topic at hand before hitting the "post" button. And perhaps spend more time in the "off topic" section of the forum (or even, perish the thought, outside).

When the windows are closed, normally there would be a outer layer of metal that "insulates" the interior from the **very small** gap that exists, which creates high pressure air flow that creates a nasty noise(like opening your sunroof in a car over 60 mph).As for structural rigidity, i'm talking about how the windows are about 3 times likelier to break given they do not have a frame. Last time I checked, windows were part of the structure of the car. In addition, this was one of the shortcomings of the model s that caused the terrible build.
Now I understand your words, but I would encourage you to think about what I said, and if you don't think that its correct, then ask for an explanation. I really don't appreciate being attacked for saying something that makes complete sense. If you have to say something, then be polite about it! Its not really that hard.

 

[borski]

Frameless doors can improve rigidity by allowing for more space and allowing for a beefier fixed car frame around the doors, as they don’t need to design in any space for the door frame to rest on.

The added rigidity has benefits. They may have smaller B-pillars, improving visibility, or even the remove the B-pillar entirely to make it easier for loading large cargo (e.g. BMW i3). The stronger roof and body structure required for the frameless windows to be structurally sound also likely help compensate for the added weight of the batteries in EVs so they perform well in safety tests, particularly the stronger roof to support the weight of the car if it rolls over; you’ll note the Lucid Air was unable to be made to roll over in its safety tests, but we’ve seen it happen in the real world in some crazy conditions.

Outside of those benefits the door itself is a bit simpler in design, and can free up a small amount of space inside the door (part of Lucid’s “space concept”). Larger crumple zones can potentially be used to improve safety, or some additional sound dampening insulation can often be fitted in the door due to the larger area.

Also potentially means lighter doors that can stay in place even on steep hills. Also the ability to strap down items from the roof of the car by running the straps through the windows, while still being able to operate the doors.

Basically: I don’t know what I’m talking about and am not an automotive engineer or designer, but I can guarantee they didn’t go “frameless looks nice let’s do that, who cares about how the car handles or performs, or if it’s quiet inside.”

 

[Steveinarizona]

Basically: I don’t know what I’m talking about and am not an automotive engineer or designer, but I can guarantee they didn’t go “frameless looks nice let’s do that, who cares about how the car handles or performs, or if it’s quiet inside.”

 

[xponents]

Frameless doors can improve rigidity by allowing for more space and allowing for a beefier fixed car frame around the doors, as they don’t need to design in any space for the door frame to rest on.

The added rigidity has benefits. They may have smaller B-pillars, improving visibility, or even the remove the B-pillar entirely to make it easier for loading large cargo (e.g. BMW i3). The stronger roof and body structure requires for the frameless windows to be structurally sound also likely help compensate for the added weight of the batteries in EVs so they perform well in safety tests, particularly the stronger roof to support the weight of the car off it rolls over; you’ll note the Lucid Air was unable to be made to roll over in its safety tests, but we’ve seen it happen in the real world in some crazy conditions.

Outside of those benefits the door itself is a bit simpler in design, and can free up a small amount of space inside the door (part of Lucid’s “space concept”). Larger crumple zones can potentially be used to improve safety, or some additional sound dampening insulation can often be fitted in the door due to the larger area.

Also potentially means lighter doors that can stay in place even on steep hills. Also the ability to strap down items from the roof of the car by running the straps through the windows, while still being able to operate the doors.

Basically: I don’t know what I’m talking about and am not an automotive engineer or designer, but I can guarantee they didn’t go “frameless looks nice let’s do that, who cares about how the car handles or performs, or if it’s quiet inside.”

We all trust in lucid, lets see the end product in q4! Cant wait to see the clever innovations of the space concept applied to the gravity.
Also wait, isnt the bmw i3 suicide doors? I would assume that thinking doesnt really apply to gravity..

 

[Sam6062]

Clearly you have absolutely 0 taste

(honourable mention lm002)
View attachment 12209
(kardashian-mobile anybody?)

Clearly you are rude

 

[Adnillien]

This thread is very close to being locked because the discussion has turned personal. Please bring it back to Gravity.

 

[borski]

Also wait, isnt the bmw i3 suicide doors?

Yes, but that was so not the point

 

[GearHead]

Frameless doors can improve rigidity by allowing for more space and allowing for a beefier fixed car frame around the doors, as they don’t need to design in any space for the door frame to rest on.

The added rigidity has benefits. They may have smaller B-pillars, improving visibility, or even the remove the B-pillar entirely to make it easier for loading large cargo (e.g. BMW i3). The stronger roof and body structure required for the frameless windows to be structurally sound also likely help compensate for the added weight of the batteries in EVs so they perform well in safety tests, particularly the stronger roof to support the weight of the car if it rolls over; you’ll note the Lucid Air was unable to be made to roll over in its safety tests, but we’ve seen it happen in the real world in some crazy conditions.

Outside of those benefits the door itself is a bit simpler in design, and can free up a small amount of space inside the door (part of Lucid’s “space concept”). Larger crumple zones can potentially be used to improve safety, or some additional sound dampening insulation can often be fitted in the door due to the larger area.

Also potentially means lighter doors that can stay in place even on steep hills. Also the ability to strap down items from the roof of the car by running the straps through the windows, while still being able to operate the doors.

Basically: I don’t know what I’m talking about and am not an automotive engineer or designer, but I can guarantee they didn’t go “frameless looks nice let’s do that, who cares about how the car handles or performs, or if it’s quiet inside.”

I agree with your last sentence. I think it's possible they chose frameless to get the glass closer to the outside surface of the door and roof, minimizing the transition in surfaces and thereby improving the aerodynamics. I too am not an automotive engineer or designer, and just speculating.

Pete

 

[xponents]

I agree with your last sentence. I think it's possible they chose frameless to get the glass closer to the outside surface of the door and roof, minimizing the transition in surfaces and thereby improving the aerodynamics. I too am not an automotive engineer or designer, and just speculating.

Pete

That could be, but why wouldnt they do the same thing for the sedan?

 

[Rogue]

That could be, but why wouldnt they do the same thing for the sedan?

New improvements? Design takes so, so, so long to approve when safety is involved. Hard to say. More tech talks would be fantastic on these areas.

I would conjecture, as a non-materials anything engineer, that the larger Gravity may allow for more play and room to do neat innovations.

One thing we can know for certain: engineering brilliance and novelty from the Lucid team.

 

[xponents]

New improvements? Design takes so, so, so long to approve when safety is involved. Hard to say. More tech talks would be fantastic on these areas.

I would conjecture, as a non-materials anything engineer, that the larger Gravity may allow for more play and room to do neat innovations.

One thing we can know for certain: engineering brilliance and novelty from the Lucid team.

Gravity is literally going to kill me for waiting so long. I know its going to be amazing.

 

[GearHead]

That could be, but why wouldnt they do the same thing for the sedan?

Sorry, but I draw the line on speculating on my speculations.

 

[alamai]

Usually, when you have a frameless door, the windows are more flush with the body. Maybe they’re trying to camouflage stuff, but I don’t really like the Doohickey at the top of the windows (the eyebrow thing).

Guys, these Gravity test models are covered in extra body panels to disguise their true line and contours.

 

[NoseyReporter]

Guys, these Gravity test models are covered in extra body panels to disguise their true line and contours.

And the wrap is like a pair of yoga pants.

 

[ebr]

Guys, these Gravity test models are covered in extra body panels to disguise their true line and contours.

Doesn't seem like it would be a very accurate test if that were the case...

 

[alamai]

Doesn't seem like it would be a very accurate test if that were the case...

Not if it's for tests related to battery stress, acceleration, suspension, brake tuning, et al. We'll see the Gravity in its true final form closer to when it's ready for range and crash tests. These are typically the last ones. Lucid is far behind with the Gravity release, and they had to show something before the end of Spring 2023, as they had previously promised.

 

[hmp10]

Doesn't seem like it would be a very accurate test if that were the case...

I think the only key characteristic with which false body panels would interfere is aerodynamics, and that will be honed in wind tunnels, not in testing on public roads.