Gravity Testing!

[hmp10]

Someone told me that Air's are having trouble getting off the lot right now, not sure where reservations are at for each category.

Lucid has gone mum on details about reservations but, yes, there are reports of some inventory buildup.

It should be noted, though, that slow EV sales are also behind Tesla's recent deep price cuts and Ford's price cuts and incentives. The whole industry is affected by current economic conditions.

 

[emoylv]

Rawlinson explained his reasoning in several early interviews, noting that trying to take on a mass-market competitor is extremely capital intensive and something only well-established automakers can expect to do.

Lucid's strategy was first to build a brand identity around industry-leading range -- an area in which Tesla was dominant -- and that was most easily accomplished with a sedan's aerodynamics and the Air's ability to carry a larger battery pack than a Y-sized chassis.

You also have to remember that at the time Lucid was deciding how to enter the market, the Model Y and other electric CUVs had not yet shown that EV adopters would embrace that category. Even Tesla did not get to the CUV format until its fourth product.

Also, Lucid is already taking a lot of flak for its pricing of a luxury sports sedan, a segment that has traditionally supported higher pricing than more volume products. I seriously doubt if its first move had been to introduce a $60-150K CUV -- a segment aimed more at young families and buyers on tighter budgets -- it would have gotten off the ground.

Also good for older folks who can't/don't want to climb out of a sedan. With a next-gen battery pack (better range), I can see ourselves hitting the road a lot more.

 

[Rob Stark]

Rawlinson explained his reasoning in several early interviews, noting that trying to take on a mass-market competitor is extremely capital intensive and something only well-established automakers can expect to do.

Lucid's strategy was first to build a brand identity around industry-leading range -- an area in which Tesla was dominant -- and that was most easily accomplished with a sedan's aerodynamics and the Air's ability to carry a larger battery pack than a Y-sized chassis.

You also have to remember that at the time Lucid was deciding how to enter the market, the Model Y and other electric CUVs had not yet shown that EV adopters would embrace that category. Even Tesla did not get to the CUV format until its fourth product.

Also, Lucid is already taking a lot of flak for its pricing of a luxury sports sedan, a segment that has traditionally supported higher pricing than more volume products. I seriously doubt if its first move had been to introduce a $60-150K CUV -- a segment aimed more at young families and buyers on tighter budgets -- it would have gotten off the ground.

You misread what I am saying.

The first car should have been the Gravity. Beating the Model X range by a wide margin.

The Gravity should command higher prices just like the X commands a premium on the S.

Demand for X is at least 2x the S. But Tesla doesn't breakdown their sales numbers.

 

[Rob Stark]

65k Luxury CUV from Lucid? No way we're seeing that coming anytime soon.

My bet is still on 100k starting price for Gravity for the base model.

They're not in a position right now to compete in that price range given all of the Luxuries and features of the Lucid.

But eventually, it could be a possibility, maybe a decade later.

My bet is on a $95k starting price for Gravity.

If it takes Lucid 10 years to get to a $65k CUV then they are going out of business. They don't need all of the luxuries and features of the Air at this price point.

Rivian is building their factory in Georgia for their more affordable more mass market R2 vehicles as I type this.

 

[emoylv]

I dunno. If the Gravity was Lucid's first model, I would not have bought it. The style of the Air, there's nothing else like it. After 5 months, people still honk at me and give me a thumbs up. I know many of you have had the same experience.

 

[Rob Stark]

I dunno. If the Gravity was Lucid's first model, I would not have bought it. The style of the Air, there's nothing else like it. After 5 months, people still honk at me and give me a thumbs up. I know many of you have had the same experience.

For every Air buyer that would not purchase the Gravity there would be at least 2 customers that would.

Market demand for sedans vs CUVs/SUVs is undeniable.

 

[Bobby]

Let's try to keep this thread about the gravity itself. Let's refrain from armchair quarterback comments telling Lucid how to run their business. Here is an excerpt from the guidelines for this forum:

"Also, while it is highly encouraged to post recommendations on ways to improve the vehicles, please refrain from telling Lucid what they should do or how they should run their business; “armchair CEO” comments are widespread on the internet and nearly always missing nuance. Unless you have run a large auto manufacturer, it is very easy to lose the forest for the trees, and there are likely many challenges one is not aware of unless actually in the role. It is easy to forget there are thousands of real people working very hard to design, build, sell, and service Lucid vehicles. Please keep them in mind when you're about to write something negative."

 

[borski]

For every Air buyer that would not purchase the Gravity there would be at least 2 customers that would.

Market demand for sedans vs CUVs/SUVs is undeniable.

I don’t know if that’s true outside the US. Given the focus on EMEA, they far prefer sedans over SUVs.

Also, the sedan allowed them lots of PR with the fastest sedan on the planet, along with all the luxury. Beating the Model S Plaid made a big splash both on range and speed, and the Gravity won’t do that.

 

[xponents]

I don’t know if that’s true outside the US. Given the focus on EMEA, they far prefer sedans over SUVs.

Also, the sedan allowed them lots of PR with the fastest sedan on the planet, along with all the luxury. Beating the Model S Plaid made a big splash both on range and speed, and the Gravity won’t do that.

Its hard to forget that Saudi and Europe are lucid's biggest markets. They need sedans first. But this also does support @Rob Stark 's argument because this proves that smaller vehicles can sell more, with the added benefit that they would be cheaper.
I still stand on the fact that starting with premium products will be a much more effective way for lucid to survive than just pumping out mass market cars.

 

[xponents]

I don’t know if that’s true outside the US. Given the focus on EMEA, they far prefer sedans over SUVs.

Also, the sedan allowed them lots of PR with the fastest sedan on the planet, along with all the luxury. Beating the Model S Plaid made a big splash both on range and speed, and the Gravity won’t do that.

I also noticed you said gravity wouldnt beat the s plaid in range, which is funny because lucid stated more range than anything other than the air. Im guessing 450 miles.

 

[Rob Stark]

I don’t know if that’s true outside the US. Given the focus on EMEA, they far prefer sedans over SUVs.

Also, the sedan allowed them lots of PR with the fastest sedan on the planet, along with all the luxury. Beating the Model S Plaid made a big splash both on range and speed, and the Gravity won’t do that.

No Gravity won't do that.

It would just more than double demand and not have Lucid vehicles sitting at stores. With $7,500 discount.

Stinger is going away while Telluride is going over sticker years after introduction.

You can't make a business on selling enthusiast cars. Unless you are a boutique make like Ferrari or Koenigsegg.

Porsche would be dead without Cayenne and Macan.

My understanding is Lucid doesn't want to be a boutique brand. Lucid wants to be the electric Mercedes. Selling ~2M cars per year with high margins.

​

 

[Steveinarizona]

Also good for older folks who can't/don't want to climb out of a sedan. With a next-gen battery pack (better range), I can see ourselves hitting the road a lot more.

I have always preferred the look and handling of a sedan BUT I must admit that the crossover GV60 is a lot easier for my 78 year old body with a titanium hip to get in and out of. Now that I have a new hip getting in and out of a sedan is not difficult (and it would be easier if Lucid would institute easy entry/easy exist as my Genesis did) but I don't know if my other hip will eventually give out on me as well.

But, on the other hand, I also prefer a smaller vehicle so the projected size of the Gravity would be a no for me.

I look for a small, performance vehicle with luxury features and buttons and switches for things I use while driving. It is really hard to find. The GV60 Performance is pretty close which is why I got it. The forthcoming Macon electric would probably also check all my boxes. A crossover no bigger than a Tesla Model Y, preferably slightly smaller, would be a great Lucid for me. Given my requirements, it would be more expensive than a Model Y but I am willing to pay for a vehicle to meet my specs.

 

[hmp10]

You misread what I am saying.

The first car should have been the Gravity. Beating the Model X range by a wide margin.

Really? Have you looked at the sales numbers for the Model X versus the Model S?

In 2022, Tesla sold 176,372 Model S's compared to 31,371 Model X's.

Why would anyone looking at Tesla sales numbers since the introduction of the Model X put a large electric SUV into production ahead of a full-size sedan?

I think you assume that a Model Y buyer and a Gravity buyer are the same type of customer because both vehicles are electric. They're not.

It's one thing to argue that Lucid should have entered the market against the Model Y, which was your initial argument. But it's another thing to argue that Lucid should have entered the market with the Gravity instead of the Air, which now seems to be the argument.

As I've mentioned earlier, Lucid did not have the resources to start production with a low-margin mass market product but instead needed to look for a niche entry from which to build its brand. And EV sales data support the view that the upper-end EV market is more open to sedans than SUVs.

 

[borski]

No Gravity won't do that.

It would just more than double demand and not have Lucid vehicles sitting at stores. With $7,500 discount.

Stinger is going away while Telluride is going over sticker years after introduction.

You can't make a business on selling enthusiast cars. Unless you are a boutique make like Ferrari or Koenigsegg.

Porsche would be dead without Cayenne and Macan.

My understanding is Lucid doesn't want to be a boutique brand. Lucid wants to be the electric Mercedes. Selling ~2M cars per year with high margins.

​

The Air isn’t what they’re trying to make their big money maker. It is their flagship; it is the reason they made a big splash, and a lot of that has to do with the performance metrics that are only achievable with a sedan. The Gravity will make them more money in the US; I agree.

If you recall, Tesla started with the Roadster. Why? Wasn’t because they thought they would sell hundreds of thousands of roadsters. It was because up until that point nobody had made an electric car sexy; they were all smart cars and tiny little 100-mile range boxes.

The Air redefined luxury, and coupled it with performance. Almost nobody that has seen an Air thinks of a Tesla as luxury anymore, and that was the point.

The Gravity will sell better in the US, but the Air is what will make Lucid well-known so they can sell the gravity.

Think of it this way: if rates hadn’t risen, and the economy hadn’t tanked, the Air would be selling like hotcakes; at the time, especially, the Air was the obvious car to build first. Hindsight may mean Gravity would have been better as the first car *in this market*, but we don’t make future decisions based on hindsight.

 

[Rob Stark]

Really? Have you looked at the sales numbers for the Model X versus the Model S?

In 2022, Tesla sold 176,372 Model S's compared to 31,371 Model X's.

Why would anyone looking at Tesla sales numbers since the introduction of the Model X put a large electric SUV into production ahead of a full-size sedan?

I think you assume that a Model Y buyer and a Gravity buyer are the same type of customer because both vehicles are electric. They're not.

It's one thing to argue that Lucid should have entered the market against the Model Y, which was your initial argument. But it's another thing to argue that Lucid should have entered the market with the Gravity instead of the Air, which now seems to be the argument.

As I've mentioned earlier, Lucid did not have the resources to start production with a low-margin mass market product but instead needed to look for a niche entry from which to build its brand. And EV sales data support the view that the upper-end EV market is more open to sedans than SUVs.

LOL

Tesla doesn't break down sales between Model S and Model X. Any quoted numbers are an estimate.

Tesla's best year for combined Model S/X sales was 2017 with 101,312 sales.

We know the biggest or second biggest market for S/X is China. And in China X womps on S sales.

 

[Rob Stark]

The Air isn’t what they’re trying to make their big money maker. It is their flagship; it is the reason they made a big splash, and a lot of that has to do with the performance metrics that are only achievable with a sedan. The Gravity will make them more money in the US; I agree.

If you recall, Tesla started with the Roadster. Why? Wasn’t because they thought they would sell hundreds of thousands of roadsters. It was because up until that point nobody had made an electric car sexy; they were all smart cars and tiny little 100-mile range boxes.

The Air redefined luxury, and coupled it with performance. Almost nobody that has seen an Air thinks of a Tesla as luxury anymore, and that was the point.

The Gravity will sell better in the US, but the Air is what will make Lucid well-known so they can sell the gravity.

Think of it this way: if rates hadn’t risen, and the economy hadn’t tanked, the Air would be selling like hotcakes; at the time, especially, the Air was the obvious car to build first. Hindsight may mean Gravity would have been better as the first car *in this market*, but we don’t make future decisions based on hindsight.

1) Tesla started with Roadster because any car they made had to sell for ~$120k plus in 2008 US dollars and people were more willing to pay $120k for roadsters than sedans/CUVS . And Lotus was willing to manufacture cars under contract for Tesla. And Lotus could more cheaply make modified Lotus Roadsters than sedans or utility vehicles. Maybe Lotus making sedans or utilities for Tesla would be cost prohibitive since all new equipment would be needed.

2) The first vehicle also has to not lose massive amounts of money and impress investors enough that they will continue to fund the company over successive rounds of capital raises.

3) Tesla doesn't assert they are luxury or a luxury brand. They are a high tech high performance brand.

4) However great Air demand would be in a good economy Gravity would be 2x that. That is why it would be a safer bet. When they started designing Air they did not have a sugar daddy guaranteeing Lucid Motors survival through to a mass market car. I remember Lucid trying to sell themselves to Ford at a low point. I don't even think PiF is guaranteeing Lucid survival through to a mass market car.

 

[Rob Stark]

And for anyone who still thinks Tesla sold 176,372 Model S in 2022 here is Tesla's production capacity.

 

[joec]

Okay. Thread closing. Bobby asked nicely to keep it on topic.