Gravity test drive

[borski]

I agree that highway driving is what I mostly care about. It's very very rare that I do enough non-highway driving that I really want someone else to drive. That said, there is one scenario where handling the trip end-to-end would be valuable for me: driving me home after I've been drinking. I'd love to be able to have a few glasses of wine at a restaurant or a party and still be able to get home without calling a taxi/rideshare. Of course, that last scenario means that any form of "supervised" autonomy is not helpful.

It's gonna be a while until that is true; please, please, don't trust FSD to do this either.

 

[HC_79]

I changed my order from DD2 pro to premium after reading the discussions on Lucid software issues. Sounds like DD pro works well on Air?

If you had of asked me 12 months ago if DD Pro was worth it, I would’ve told you to save your money and just go with Premium. The last few updates to DD Pro have been huge improving on its smoothness and reliability. You can tell it’s getting very near to hands off eyes on which is coming this year. I’d definitely recommend people by DD Pro now for what you get today and how it will no doubt evolve in the future, it’s worth it now.

 

[JoeMa]

I agree that highway driving is what I mostly care about. It's very very rare that I do enough non-highway driving that I really want someone else to drive. That said, there is one scenario where handling the trip end-to-end would be valuable for me: driving me home after I've been drinking. I'd love to be able to have a few glasses of wine at a restaurant or a party and still be able to get home without calling a taxi/rideshare. Of course, that last scenario means that any form of "supervised" autonomy is not helpful.

Lol, you have me there. That might be one occasion where FSD would be very handy.

 

[Bus Driver]

Please do not use ChatGPT as a source of truth. AI does not understand what is the source of truth. It only knows how to sound convincing.

And even at that, it doesn't do a very good job.

 

[JoeMa]

Not to belabor Telsa's FSD offering, the area where they fail at assisted driving (IMO) is their use of cameras only. Cameras may be cost-effective for Tesla, but LiDAR systems like that offered in the DD2 Pro system, provide superior precision and reliability in certain conditions, like rain and/or snow. My son-in-law and a friend both own Tesla's and they have experienced issues using FSD in heavy rain.

 

[Batteryman]

Not to belabor Telsa's FSD offering, the area where they fail at assisted driving (IMO) is their use of cameras only. Cameras may be cost-effective for Tesla, but LiDAR systems like that offered in the DD2 Pro system, provide superior precision and reliability in certain conditions, like rain and/or snow. My son-in-law and a friend both own Tesla's and they have experienced issues using FSD in heavy rain.

My know someone who has almost got rear ended using FSD due to it coming to a sudden stop. They were travelling behind a fedex truck with red lights on the top of the truck. Going through an intersection with green lights, Tesla saw the red lights on top of the truck and applied emergency braking thinking traffic lights turned red. They came to a complete stop in the middle of the intersection.

Using just cameras is dangerous and irresponsible of Musk. He doesn’t care if it kills so one, he just wants his stock price to go up, pathetic human being in my view.

 

[TahoeMichael]

It's gonna be a while until that is true; please, please, don't trust FSD to do this either.

I definitely would not. I'm an engineer who has experience in machine learning. While I don't work in autonomous driving at all, I'm familiar with how brittle AI systems can be, and am quite risk averse about them when it comes to anything life-critical. The only current autonomous driving software that I trust enough to use is Waymo Driver. For Lucid's system, I don't know enough about it to have an opinion, but that would lead me to be quite cautious in how I'd use it.

 

[borski]

I definitely would not. I'm an engineer who has experience in machine learning. While I don't work in autonomous driving at all, I'm familiar with how brittle AI systems can be, and am quite risk averse about them when it comes to anything life-critical.

Good!

The only current autonomous driving software that I trust enough to use is Waymo Driver.

Same!

For Lucid's system, I don't know enough about it to have an opinion, but that would lead me to be quite cautious in how I'd use it.

It’s good, but it is definitely not good enough to drive me home drunk. IMHO it is better than Tesla, not as good as Mercedes (yet), but is better than most.

But the thing that makes me very happy is the significant improvement over the last year of where it was to where it is today.

It still has plenty of room to improve though.

 

[JoeMa]

And Mercedes Drive Pilot is very conservative in the US. Drive Pilot will operate hands-free up to 40 mph in the US, and up to about 60 mph in Germany. So it’s mainly designed for stop and go traffic in larger cities. I’m sure that will change overtime, but for now, they will continue on a conservative path and not injure anybody. But keep in mind, this system is an approved level 3 autonomous driving system, which means the driver doesn’t even have to be looking at the road.

 

[HC_79]

And Mercedes Drive Pilot is very conservative in the US. Drive Pilot will operate hands-free up to 40 mph in the US, and up to about 60 mph in Germany. So it’s mainly designed for stop and go traffic in larger cities. I’m sure that will change overtime, but for now, they will continue on a conservative path and not injure anybody. But keep in mind, this system is an approved level 3 autonomous driving system, which means the driver doesn’t even have to be looking at the road.

And they’ll accept legal liability if the car causes and accident while driving under Level 3 also.

 

[TahoeMichael]

And they’ll accept legal liability if the car causes and accident while driving under Level 3 also.

I don't think they have a choice. The nature of liability law (at least in the USA) would probably make it very difficult for them to transfer liability to the owner. Honda tried to wiggle out of liability for ATV accidents in the 80's, and failed to do so. They could try to make owners sign a contract making them assume liability, but there's a good chance that it wouldn't hold up in court. All that said, I'm not a lawyer.

 

[HC_79]

I don't think they have a choice. The nature of liability law (at least in the USA) would probably make it very difficult for them to transfer liability to the owner. Honda tried to wiggle out of liability for ATV accidents in the 80's, and failed to do so. They could try to make owners sign a contract making them assume liability, but there's a good chance that it wouldn't hold up in court. All that said, I'm not a lawyer.

It was more that they’re putting their money where their mouth is and confident enough the thing won’t be a legal nightmare for them. Unlike another company who claims it’s FSD and drives itself everywhere but refuses to certify it as Level 3 nor accepts any responsibility if it crashes when engaged.

 

[JoeMa]

It was more that they’re putting their money where their mouth is and confident enough the thing won’t be a legal nightmare for them. Unlike another company who claims it’s FSD and drives itself everywhere but refuses to certify it as Level 3 nor accepts any responsibility if it crashes when engaged.

That is exactly the point. Well said!

 

[msaunders9430]

It’s good, but it is definitely not good enough to drive me home drunk. IMHO it is better than Tesla, not as good as Mercedes (yet), but is better than most.

Now this ^ got my attention.

I had been glossing over these FSD comments until I saw "not as good as Mercedes".
I thought Tesla was somewhat of the gold standard, for now, with self-driving.
Watched the video shown below on MB Drive Pilot. Holy cow!

The only L3 car sold in the US. Hmmm

Got some homework to do, but is it correct to say that DD2 Pro and its "Future-capable ADAS hardware" can rival MB Drive Pilot one day?
I hadn't really thought about that future capability (L3?) probably because I wasn't aware of a car that could demonstrate it.

 

[DeaneG]

...I had been glossing over these FSD comments until I saw "not as good as Mercedes".
I thought Tesla was somewhat of the gold standard, for now, with self-driving...

Tesla's FSD is generally thought to be less capable than MBZ, and GM's Super Cruise. FSD has a wow factor, and Tesla is good at marketing (exaggerating) it.

 

[HC_79]

Now this ^ got my attention.

I had been glossing over these FSD comments until I saw "not as good as Mercedes".
I thought Tesla was somewhat of the gold standard, for now, with self-driving.
Watched the video shown below on MB Drive Pilot. Holy cow!

The only L3 car sold in the US. Hmmm

Got some homework to do, but is it correct to say that DD2 Pro and its "Future-capable ADAS hardware" can rival MB Drive Pilot one day?
I hadn't really thought about that future capability (L3?) probably because I wasn't aware of a car that could demonstrate it.

Interestingly, Mercedes and Lucid both use Nvidia for ADAS

 

[msaunders9430]

This forum never disappoints.

OK rarely. I still get a little irritated when someone asks a question that a little research here would have answered.
That's just me.