Gravity test drive

Tesla has not been the gold standard for a very long time, unless you are either Elon or someone who loves Elon. I respect people who love their cars, but they are wrong about FSD, by just about every test that was not done by Tesla itself.
Understood.
I think my perception of "gold standard" was based on their marketing/exaggeration as mentioned in a previous post.

In some ways, marketing doing what it's supposed to do or can do; give a perception.
 
I knew I was opening a can of worms but the discussion has been enlightening. I just disagree with how Tesla markets their clearly Beta FSD software to buyers who at one point were willing to pay Tesla a whopping $15,000 for FSD, only to realize they were paying to join the Beta program. If and when most states certify their FSD software, NVIDIA is perhaps the safest route forward for most car manufacturers.
 
The big "wow factor" with Tesla is that they allow the ADAS features to operate on city streets, which none of the established manufacturers would do because of their approach to risk. This does enable use cases like ACC for stop-and-go traffic, which is a meaningful benefit, imho.


Rivian as well. If you're not building your own chips, Nvidia is probably the safest bet for your HW here, but it's at a substantial price premium to other vendors. Note that Nvidia are not providing the "driver" functionality (although their web content is really muddy on this now) -- Nvidia DRIVE is a HW/SW platform, but the software provided is more at the level of infrastructure and support libraries to make building ADAS capabilities easier.

It's really hard to tell from the way they write press releases (see https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/drive-full-stack-av-software-europe/) but some of what comes with the SDK may be as far as fully-functional demos for capabilities like auto-park. I would not assume that means they can be "just deployed" in a vehicle, though, and may require a lot of downstream customer (e.g. Lucid) customization. Regardless, for ADAS capabilities there is either the automaker or another SW component vendor that is going to be providing a lot of code to make it work...
I think that understates what companies can get from Nvidia. I believe that Nvidia DRIVE Hyperion includes both the hardware platform and software, including ML models. But Nvidia is only pitching it as "level 2+" at this point. Even Waymo, the clear leader in autonomous driving, readily acknowledges that they have quite a bit of R&D that still needs to be done. For companies not wanting to invest a few billion trying to build their own autonomous driving, Nvidia offers the most obvious technology to license. But until autonomous driving is a solved problem, it's far from clear who the viable technology partners will end up being. Waymo seems like a clear bet. Nvidia and Tesla both have a willingness (and financial capacity) to dump endless billions into the tech as well, and so will probably someday succeed. But as fundamental research in AI continues to improve the base capability of the technology, the barrier to building an autonomous driving system will slowly drop. Probably the smart thing to do for most companies is to avoid dumping in huge somes of money at this moment when the state of the technology isn't quite ready to offer the capability.
 
Since I took us off track, I will make this one comment. And it’s NOT an intended to defend Elon, but it IS interesting. He said the reason they removed radar was there was no way to process information when radar picked up a false positive and the camera saw no object - or vice versa.

LiDAR is total overkill and radar is “dumb” technology for a 2025 car unless you just want to check blind spots.

when traveling for work I’ve rented a Toyota and Subaru - both under $30,000 - and both had TACC and lane keep. Worked perfectly. Not sure we really need all the rest.

As for DD Pro - I am nervous because Tesla realize on two different occasions they needed better/more powerful hardware. Them had to upgrade. Not sure Lucid’s hardware on DD Pro cars is actually good enough.
 
....LiDAR is total overkill and radar is “dumb” technology for a 2025 car unless you just want to check blind spots....
Lidar and radar are complementary to cameras. Each has unique strengths in a range of conditions. Lidar and radar can see in the dark, radar can see in heavy fog, etc. I'll take all three, as I place a high value on our safety. I'm not interested cheapest solution.
 
Lidar and radar are complementary to cameras. Each has unique strengths in a range of conditions. Lidar and radar can see in the dark, radar can see in heavy fog, etc. I'll take all three, as I place a high value on our safety. I'm not interested cheapest solution.
I am not talking about the cheapest solution. I am looking for the most effective mix. When cameras, radar and lidar don’t all agree - which does the car choose? That’s an issue.

Honestly, I am not the right person to advocate here as I just need tacc and lane stay. I’ve seen Lucid’s DD Pro today, Tesla’s various tools and Rivian and don’t feel any are with an extra $5,000+. YMMV based on needs.
 
I am not talking about the cheapest solution. I am looking for the most effective mix. When cameras, radar and lidar don’t all agree - which does the car choose? That’s an issue...
Yes, it's part of the problem to be solved.
 
I am not talking about the cheapest solution. I am looking for the most effective mix. When cameras, radar and lidar don’t all agree - which does the car choose? That’s an issue.

Honestly, I am not the right person to advocate here as I just need tacc and lane stay. I’ve seen Lucid’s DD Pro today, Tesla’s various tools and Rivian and don’t feel any are with an extra $5,000+. YMMV based on needs.
It's true that combining data from multiple sensors poses a challenge. But that's not unique to radar or lidar. Two optical cameras with overlapping fields of view also need to solve the problem. The human brain has to do it with our eyes as well. It's actually an incredibly challenging problem, and even our highly evolved brains get it wrong on a regular basis. In terms of looking for the most effective mix, I believe that it's better to have multiple kinds of sensors, where one kind can be effective in types of sensing that another kind is weak at. More sensors makes the vehicle more expensive, but I personally am willing to pay more for the safety it can provide. I know that's easy for me to say, a guy who's planning to buy a Gravity for more than double what the average new vehicle costs. But even lidar has already come down enormously in price, and radar is already pretty inexpensive.
 
I am not talking about the cheapest solution. I am looking for the most effective mix. When cameras, radar and lidar don’t all agree - which does the car choose? That’s an issue.

Honestly, I am not the right person to advocate here as I just need tacc and lane stay. I’ve seen Lucid’s DD Pro today, Tesla’s various tools and Rivian and don’t feel any are with an extra $5,000+. YMMV based on needs.
The reason Musk did not use LIDAR and got rid of Radar is exactly this reason- the computer power needed to figure out which is right or wrong means it will take him another 2 decades to get this right- and of course the expense.

It was cheaper and quicker to just get rid of everything and just keep the cameras- when you have one system deciding, where is the conflict?

Safety is not a priority for Tesla….cost and time is what they would rather save. They don’t care if a few of us die in it…..
 
I am not talking about the cheapest solution. I am looking for the most effective mix. When cameras, radar and lidar don’t all agree - which does the car choose? That’s an issue.

Honestly, I am not the right person to advocate here as I just need tacc and lane stay. I’ve seen Lucid’s DD Pro today, Tesla’s various tools and Rivian and don’t feel any are with an extra $5,000+. YMMV based on needs.
Getting rid of one or two types of sensors that may disagree is not the solution. Better sensor fusion is the solution. Getting rid of sensors is a safety risk to save cost.
 
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