Gravity Orders Discussion

Tesla earned a PHD in missing market target dates and they just pulled in 70K orders for the new Y this past month projecting 1.1M units for 2025, they fumbled the CT launch, the Roadster launch and the 3 took forever to come to market.
Tesla missed deadlines badly and it turned out ok, that is true. But what a difference a few years makes… I bought one of the early Model 3 Dual Motors, and like everyone else my delivery date slipped and slipped. But I waited — because there was no option. Nothing else in the market came close at the time: range, performance, price point, charging network, etc. Nothing even in the ballpark. So I waited, and when my number was called I looked past the terrible panel gaps, wind noise and poor paint quality and happily handed over my cash.

Today would I make the same call? When there are dozens of competent alternatives with access to the same charging network? Not a chance. Nor would I pay what I did at that time for that car. The market has moved on.

Lucid is largely trying to follow Tesla’s playbook a few years behind, but without the first mover advantage it’s hard to overstate how much harder that playbook is. Tesla’s lack of competition meant they were able to absorb huge delays, sell cars at premiums and get away with all types of issues. Lucid simply can’t do the same now that customers have alternatives.

There’s a reason that prior to Tesla you need to go back before WW2 to find another American mass-market automaker that made it. It’s hard. So hard even Apple, the largest market cap company in the world at the time, decided it couldn’t pull it off. I know better than most the challenges Lucid needs to overcome getting the Gravity into production. I also know they have little choice or margin: it’s time to execute. Or die. My money says that even Saudi’s deep pockets won’t save them as an independent brand if they don’t display rapidly improving competence.
 
Tesla’s lack of competition meant they were able to absorb huge delays, sell cars at premiums and get away with all types of issues. Lucid simply can’t do the same now that customers have alternatives.

This is one of the paradoxes Peter Rawlinson poses. He is a "car guy" at heart, a top-notch engineer by trade, and someone who seems compulsively driven to make a vehicle as near to perfect as possible across as many dimensions as possible simultaneously. Yet he is also trying to build a company aimed ultimately at the mass market.

Based on the early test drive reviews and what anyone who can read a spec sheet and has sat in a Gravity can readily discern, I would argue that Lucid -- and especially the Gravity -- offer EVs that leave true automotive aficionados no alternatives. There is simply nothing else like the Air or the Gravity on the market in terms of power, handling, efficiency, passenger room, and cargo space melded into a single vehicle.

But mass market buyers for whom price, a few key features, and errand-running practicality prevail over exhilarating motoring experiences will find a rapidly-expanding menu of alternatives.

And there's the rub for Lucid. Can Lucid build and price cars for a mass market that doesn't really appreciate and will not pay for what Rawlinson and his superb engineering team are almost compulsively driven to produce?

I said it in the early Air days, and my view has not changed: Lucid's natural market niche is the one occupied by Porsche, not Tesla.
 
This is one of the paradoxes Peter Rawlinson poses. He is a "car guy" at heart, a top-notch engineer by trade, and someone who seems compulsively driven to make a vehicle as near to perfect as possible across as many dimensions as possible simultaneously. Yet he is also trying to build a company aimed ultimately at the mass market.

Based on the early test drive reviews and what anyone who can read a spec sheet and has sat in a Gravity can readily discern, I would argue that Lucid -- and especially the Gravity -- offer EVs that leave true automotive aficionados no alternatives. There is simply nothing else like the Air or the Gravity on the market in terms of power, handling, efficiency, passenger room, and cargo space melded into a single vehicle.

But mass market buyers for whom price, a few key features, and errand-running practicality prevail over exhilarating motoring experiences will find a rapidly-expanding menu of alternatives.

And there's the rub for Lucid. Can Lucid build and price cars for a mass market that doesn't really appreciate and will not pay for what Rawlinson and his superb engineering team are almost compulsively driven to produce?

I said it in the early Air days, and my view has not changed: Lucid's natural market niche is the one occupied by Porsche, not Tesla.
Porsche has always been a very interesting target for many reasons. Either from a profitability perspective or units sold x msrp and Porsche stands out clearly: aim at that. And I’m here from where? My first car was a Porsche, and my car history spans ‘69 911s through to the GT3 Touring... But the Air didn’t get me- I went Audi E-tron GT instead, largely because bugs. Is it as good at as many things? No, but I need a daily driver to work, period, and I’d seen too many Airs on flat beds.

The Gravity has clear air between it and any competitor. Not as much as the Model 3 when it came out, but substantial, which is why I’m once again on a waiting list. But I get a whiff that they have not been able to address their issues I’ll pass, and if I’m passing (probably close to their ideal target customer) I worry for them. Keep in mind Porsche almost died in the 90s, selling 6600 cars in 1993. It was financially unsustainable, despite their history and the fact that they were essentially not innovating. Lucid sold 10.3k last year, also unsustainable. The Gravity needs to set them on the path towards where Porsche currently is — 310k cars last year. Do that and attract buyer like me and they’ve got a shot.
 
I chatted online with the Lucid sales team. For reference, this is what they said about the delivery timeline:

"At the current moment, we do not yet have an official ETA for customer deliveries of the Gravity. We should be getting more information soon, but I do know that deliveries will start sometime towards the middle of the year and continue to ramp up through the fall and winter."

An indication that they will start 'middle of the year' and continue into fall/winter at least gave me a better idea of what to expect. Better than radio silence!
 
I chatted online with the Lucid sales team. For reference, this is what they said about the delivery timeline:

"At the current moment, we do not yet have an official ETA for customer deliveries of the Gravity. We should be getting more information soon, but I do know that deliveries will start sometime towards the middle of the year and continue to ramp up through the fall and winter."

An indication that they will start 'middle of the year' and continue into fall/winter at least gave me a better idea of what to expect. Better than radio silence!
Looks like more and more are saying middle of the year. Extremely poor behavior on Lucid’s part to stage that “delivery event” in December.
 
Looks like more and more are saying middle of the year. Extremely poor behavior on Lucid’s part to stage that “delivery event” in December.
After a brief chat with the Sales Rep at the Chicago Auto Show, Chicago showroom should have a test drive model by April and deliveries should start in the summer. No telling how reliable his word is especially with what others have heard from Sales Reps.
 
After a brief chat with the Sales Rep at the Chicago Auto Show, Chicago showroom should have a test drive model by April and deliveries should start in the summer. No telling how reliable his word is especially with what others have heard from Sales Reps.
The crux of the issue isn’t the date, but rather Lucid’s misrepresentation of the situation. Peter repeatedly emphasized their intention to proceed directly to orders, avoiding the same playbook as others with this reservation system, to prevent prolonged waiting times. Considering their past disappointment with the Air reservations not resulting in sales, this move seemed smart. Orders opened on November 7th, and production commenced on December 5th, aligning with order holders expectations and Lucid’s planned launch strategy for the Gravity.

However, what people didn’t anticipate was the months-long wait without any communication, while Lucid continued to act as if everything was progressing smoothly. It’s evident now that the delivery event at the end of Q4 was merely a public relations stunt and a celebration point for next week’s earnings call. Since then, everything has seemingly ground to a halt, with speculation running rampant about the underlying reasons. The lack of communication has made it increasingly clear that the car wasn’t ready for customer delivery. Instead of being transparent and acknowledging their need for more time, Lucid pretended that everything was on track, as evident by celebrating the Supercharger access for only 9 vehicles, followed by opening KSA orders and then Canada. These tactics have little impact but present themselves as progress even though nothing is actually being delivered.

I won't say they're outright liars, but continually stretching the truth is not a favorable image, and this pattern seems to be recurring with Lucid. While Tesla faces criticism for false promises, Lucid is also falling into the same trap. Peter had promised “Hands Free Assist” availability by year-end (2024) back in August 2024, but where is it? It’s nowhere to be found. Lucid Assistant was promoted with promises of regular updates to enhance its capabilities, but the latest update made it even less functional and Android Auto is a running joke at this point. Lucid needs to either step up and deliver on its promises or Peter needs to tone down his narrative because continuing down this path isn't sustainable. Let's be real, if Lucid didn't have the PIF honey pot they'd be in serious trouble right now if not bankrupt already. If they can't master getting low volume vehicles off the line in a timely manner than how on earth are they going to get the mass market vehicle delivered on time.
 
Agreed. I have also seen 2 investment articles now that have stated that Lucid delivered 50 Gravities in the month of January. So the misinformation continues to flow.
Just because the forum only knows of the nine delivered on Dec 29 does not provide any evidence that Lucid did not deliver more Gravity in January. The fact is that people here are not insiders and do not know the actual numbers. Unless you have evidence that Lucid did not deliver more Gravity in January, your comment about misinformation can and should be applied to your comment.
 
Just because the forum only knows of the nine delivered on Dec 29 does not provide any evidence that Lucid did not deliver more Gravity in January. The fact is that people here are not insiders and do not know the actual numbers. Unless you have evidence that Lucid did not deliver more Gravity in January, your comment about misinformation can and should be applied to your comment.
Point taken.
 
The crux of the issue isn’t the date, but rather Lucid’s misrepresentation of the situation.
I disagree that Lucid has misrepresented anything. I agree with you on the lack of communication from Lucid, Lucid has not lied about anything. Your post clearly outlines where and why Lucid's communication has been poor but it does not show any misrepresentation.
 
The crux of the issue isn’t the date, but rather Lucid’s misrepresentation of the situation. Peter repeatedly emphasized their intention to proceed directly to orders, avoiding the same playbook as others with this reservation system, to prevent prolonged waiting times. Considering their past disappointment with the Air reservations not resulting in sales, this move seemed smart. Orders opened on November 7th, and production commenced on December 5th, aligning with order holders expectations and Lucid’s planned launch strategy for the Gravity.

However, what people didn’t anticipate was the months-long wait without any communication, while Lucid continued to act as if everything was progressing smoothly. It’s evident now that the delivery event at the end of Q4 was merely a public relations stunt and a celebration point for next week’s earnings call. Since then, everything has seemingly ground to a halt, with speculation running rampant about the underlying reasons. The lack of communication has made it increasingly clear that the car wasn’t ready for customer delivery. Instead of being transparent and acknowledging their need for more time, Lucid pretended that everything was on track, as evident by celebrating the Supercharger access for only 9 vehicles, followed by opening KSA orders and then Canada. These tactics have little impact but present themselves as progress even though nothing is actually being delivered.

I won't say they're outright liars, but continually stretching the truth is not a favorable image, and this pattern seems to be recurring with Lucid. While Tesla faces criticism for false promises, Lucid is also falling into the same trap. Peter had promised “Hands Free Assist” availability by year-end (2024) back in August 2024, but where is it? It’s nowhere to be found. Lucid Assistant was promoted with promises of regular updates to enhance its capabilities, but the latest update made it even less functional and Android Auto is a running joke at this point. Lucid needs to either step up and deliver on its promises or Peter needs to tone down his narrative because continuing down this path isn't sustainable. Let's be real, if Lucid didn't have the PIF honey pot they'd be in serious trouble right now if not bankrupt already. If they can't master getting low volume vehicles off the line in a timely manner than how on earth are they going to get the mass market vehicle delivered on time.

So on the one hand, you call out Lucid and Peter for saying a thing and then that thing not becoming true. And then on the other, you complain that Lucid is being "silent."

Pick one.

If you open your mouth and say such and such a thing is going to be delivered, you run the risk of missing that deadline.

If you say nothing, people will scream that you are hiding something.

It's a no-win situation.

The reason Musk gets called out as a liar with Tesla is he says things that he clearly knows aren't true at the time he says them. Even if he believed his own hype at one point, it's been a long time since he's spoken truthfully about the FSD timeline, for instance.

Lucid is not at that point. Not yet, at least. I have no question in my mind Peter thought hands-free would indeed ship by the end of the year last year when he said it. He's learning the hard lesson that this stuff gets delayed all the time and you have to be careful what you say.

Meanwhile, the pressure to say "something" is ever present.
 
I disagree that Lucid has misrepresented anything. I agree with you on the lack of communication from Lucid, Lucid has not lied about anything. Your post clearly outlines where and why Lucid's communication has been poor but it does not show any misrepresentation.
Android Auto begs to differ… IMO, that was a clear timeline that they completely missed.
 
Android Auto begs to differ… IMO, that was a clear timeline that they completely missed.
A fair point but Gravity is the topic of discussion in this thread. Hence, I stand by my comment with respect to Gravity.
 
I disagree that Lucid has misrepresented anything. I agree with you on the lack of communication from Lucid, Lucid has not lied about anything. Your post clearly outlines where and why Lucid's communication has been poor but it does not show any misrepresentation.
I would argue the first deliveries was a misrepresentation. Peter said the next round of cars were destined for showrooms and where are they? in 2 1/2 months since deliveries started not one showroom has gotten a vehicle. Even if they were producing 5 cars a week you'd have expected a some cars to be showing up in showrooms by now.
 
I would argue the first deliveries was a misrepresentation. Peter said the next round of cars were destined for showrooms and where are they? in 2 1/2 months since deliveries started not one showroom has gotten a vehicle. Even if they were producing 5 cars a week you'd have expected a some cars to be showing up in showrooms by now.
During the December delivery event, Peter was transparent on the need to improve supplier quality and software before deliveries beyond Lucid employees and friends. He was also very open about who was taking delivery on that day. I did not take delivery event as anything but marking the milestone of being able to deliver the first Gravity. I do believe that the next round of cars is going to the studios. Like you, I am disappointed in the time line and did think production was closer than it is. However I do not think Lucid misrepresented anything.
 
Android Auto begs to differ… IMO, that was a clear timeline that they completely missed.
And clearly a mistake; nobody would disagree with you on that. But Lucid doesn’t generally set timelines at all, likely for this very reason.

I’m not saying I like it, but Lucid didn’t misrepresent AA’s timeline. They’ve been communicative and explained why it’s currently held up, and that they don’t have an ETA. That’s transparent, even if it isn’t good news.
 
And clearly a mistake; nobody would disagree with you on that. But Lucid doesn’t generally set timelines at all, likely for this very reason.

I’m not saying I like it, but Lucid didn’t misrepresent AA’s timeline. They’ve been communicative and explained why it’s currently held up, and that they don’t have an ETA. That’s transparent, even if it isn’t good news.
So, what about features like Dash Cam, Hands free eyes on road features? Where are they now?
 
So, in reading all the back-and-forth, I think we are saying:
> no, Lucid did not LIE. They are just INCOMPETENT in planning, execution, and communication, correct?

Don't we all feel better already?!
 
So, in reading all the back-and-forth, I think we are saying:
> no, Lucid did not LIE. They are just INCOMPETENT in planning, execution, and communication, correct?

Don't we all feel better already?!
I would not go so far as to call anyone at Lucid INCOMPETENT. The employees, including Peter, that I have met are extremely smart and capable people. I do think Lucid ran into an issue that was not expected. I also agree with both you and @HC_79 that Luicd could have handled the situation better and provided a lot more communication about the actual status of Gravity. However, I don't think it is fair to say that Lucid is incompetent or that Luicd lied.
 
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