Gravity Orders Discussion

[TeslaOG]

Newbie here with first post, I just had to replace our December 2023 Model X (totalled after been struck by a negligent driver under the influence of drugs)and I was hoping to get a GRAVITY, LUCID in Tysons VA tried to push me into a AIR, and said they would get priority on the orders. If I were a sales guy that only had AIRS to sell I would say the same thing. I will lease our 2025 Model X for 3 years, by then LUCID should have production rolling at a decent rate. I thought about only doing a 24 month lease but it was almost $400 more per month… no thanks.

I want to drive it, and see if the 3rd row seats are power up and down like the new Tesla Model Y. I test drove everything on the market and was frustrated that my ended up in her second Model X, we got it just before the $5K price increase, which is effectively a $13K price increase as you lose the $7500 lease rebate (I dont qualify for this in a buy situation) when you add in the price increase and taxes is well over $13K increase, which puts the GRAVITY squarely in the strike zone, price wise.

 

[PS~L]

 

[DrZorro]

Here's a post I drafted late this afternoon but decided not to post as it would likely create a mini firestorm. Now I'm rethinking that, as the real point of it is that Lucid sales people -- sometimes in the same Design Studio on the same day -- can tell multiple, conflicting, mutually-exclusive stories simultaneously:

I just got off the phone with the manager of the Miami Brickell Design Studio. He told me that 50 Gravities have been delivered to bona fide customers, including a white one that went to Canada. (Coincidentally, this happens to be the same number of deliveries claimed by "Motor Intelligence", whose report was picked up in several recent articles.) I challenged that, but he said that Lucid released that figure in an earnings statement a couple of weeks ago and it's public knowledge. The last earnings call was on November 7, and I cannot find any other communication in which Lucid made such a statement. (There was a report on January 2025 deliveries that contained a 50-vehicle discrepancy that some attributed to Gravity deliveries.) I asked if the white car in Canada was on the show circuit up there, thinking it might be confused with the car we were posting about on another thread today, but he insisted this was a car delivered to a customer. He was very specific, saying that Gravity deliveries have started but are only going to customers who already own Airs and who checked the box for a cash purchase when they ordered. I told him that I was an early Air Dream owner, ordered a Gravity the morning orders opened, and am a cash purchaser. Yet I'm being told by my sales advisor (who works in the same Studio, by the way) that they don't know when deliveries are going to start.

I also told him that Rawlinson said the next production units after the nine December deliveries were going to be sent to the press and to Design Studios. He responded that "things change" and Lucid is now doing what they did with the Air Dream, i. e., beginning customer deliveries before any Studios receive test drive units.

So . . . WTF?

This reminds me of the Studio experience I had a few weeks back when the sales rep told me if I ordered that day, I'd have the car in 6-8 weeks and they were getting their prototype in a week or two.

 

[DrZorro]

This reminds me of the Studio experience I had a few weeks back when the sales rep told me if I ordered that day, I'd have the car in 6-8 weeks and they were getting their prototype in a week or two.

Correction...not prototype...they said it was a Production Demo vehicle

 

[borski]

They only had enough parts to deliver 9 cars and hold up all the rest.

Uh, that’s a major assumption, and I would bet many dollars that’s not true.

Also, a reminder to all: stop listening to salespeople. We have seen, time and time again, that some of them are not (on average) particularly knowledgeable about the facts. I am not saying it should be this way, but I am saying that presently it appears to be this way.

 

[hydbob]

Newbie here with first post, I just had to replace our December 2023 Model X (totalled after been struck by a negligent driver under the influence of drugs)and I was hoping to get a GRAVITY, LUCID in Tysons VA tried to push me into a AIR, and said they would get priority on the orders. If I were a sales guy that only had AIRS to sell I would say the same thing. I will lease our 2025 Model X for 3 years, by then LUCID should have production rolling at a decent rate. I thought about only doing a 24 month lease but it was almost $400 more per month… no thanks.

I want to drive it, and see if the 3rd row seats are power up and down like the new Tesla Model Y. I test drove everything on the market and was frustrated that my ended up in her second Model X, we got it just before the $5K price increase, which is effectively a $13K price increase as you lose the $7500 lease rebate (I dont qualify for this in a buy situation) when you add in the price increase and taxes is well over $13K increase, which puts the GRAVITY squarely in the strike zone, price wise.

the 3rd row is NOT powered

 

[TeslaOG]

Thanks for the response, our delivery date for the X is 21 February, once they get the Gravity in at Tysons, I will try and do a comparison since they will both be 2025 model year vehicles. One concern was the wind noise and exterior noise, I am not sure the model we drove had Noise reduction or acoustic glass for noise reduction as the car was louder than we expected, as our only comparison are the Teslas we have driven since 2012 (S, S, S, X, Y, X).

 

[TeslaOG]

I also felt the stereo was unpowered again I couldn't tell if it was the low spec system or the high spec system. I always laugh when they use XM for the source, its the worse audio quality, 8 track tape provides a better audio source, wasn't sure if it was the loud cockpit over riding the stereo or the stereo not setup right or a hybrid of the two as we didn't have time to play with it. I can tell you this the Rivian R1S I drove had a dead beat dog stereo in it.... decided not to pay Range Rover prices for a Jeep level of quality.

 

[PetevB]

We’ve got a car coming off lease in July and have a deposit down on a Gravity. At this point I’m already exploring extending our current lease as I don’t expect Gravities will be readily available and leasing well in that timeframe.

I will say I respect the “go slow” approach to deliveries. While I might be willing to put up with some of the early adopter bugs I see chronicled on these forums there is zero chance my wife would. Given the ear-full I’ve heard from her on Tesla phone-keys over the years (mine’s always worked flawlessly) I know with certainty software issues on a 100k car would be a deal breaker. Now’s the time for Lucid to make a complete, quality product. If early indications suggest otherwise we’ll almost certainly fall back to something like a two year lease on an EV9 while we wait for Lucid to work it out. Though if they can’t get it right on the second try I do question if they’ll be around at that point. In short, I’d rather see Lucid take the time needed to ensure it’s done right.

 

[TeslaOG]

We’ve got a car coming off lease in July and have a deposit down on a Gravity. At this point I’m already exploring extending our current lease as I don’t expect Gravities will be readily available and leasing well in that timeframe.

I will say I respect the “go slow” approach to deliveries. While I might be willing to put up with some of the early adopter bugs I see chronicled on these forums there is zero chance my wife would. Given the ear-full I’ve heard from her on Tesla phone-keys over the years (mine’s always worked flawlessly) I know with certainty software issues on a 100k car would be a deal breaker. Now’s the time for Lucid to make a complete, quality product. If early indications suggest otherwise we’ll almost certainly fall back to something like a two year lease on an EV9 while we wait for Lucid to work it out. Though if they can’t get it right on the second try I do question if they’ll be around at that point. In short, I’d rather see Lucid take the time needed to ensure it’s done right.

I'm not really worried about LUCID being around, the Saudi's have more money than Elon, and they are in this for the long play, I fully expect them to buy this company if they build a superior product, just for the cachet it would bring to K.S.A. If the product comes out as inferior it will go the way Jaguar exited, bought by Tata Motors or another OEM who is behind in EV powertrain development. I actually expect to see a LUCID halo sports car or Landcruiser like overland vehicle in the decade that will crush everything on the market. It might even beat the Tesla Roadster to market.

 

[HC_79]

I'm not really worried about LUCID being around, the Saudi's have more money than Elon, and they are in this for the long play, I fully expect them to buy this company if they build a superior product, just for the cachet it would bring to K.S.A. If the product comes out as inferior it will go the way Jaguar exited, bought by Tata Motors or another OEM who is behind in EV powertrain development.

Just because you have access to an endless honey pot of cash doesn’t mean you can just fumble your way through product launches. Keep in mind, this car was due out end of 2023 so it’s already a year overdue.

 

[TeslaOG]

Just because you have access to an endless honey pot of cash doesn’t mean you can just fumble your way through product launches. Keep in mind, this car was due out end of 2023 so it’s already a year overdue.

Tesla earned a PHD in missing market target dates and they just pulled in 70K orders for the new Y this past month projecting 1.1M units for 2025, they fumbled the CT launch, the Roadster launch and the 3 took forever to come to market. SpaceX has a better target date launch accuracy! I wouldn't make deliver dates the only measure of success, that new factory in Saudi is going to be a huge asset for LUCID, they may have import workers from China or the Philippines, but once it gets going it should be a huge success as they don't have to deal with the environmental bureaucracy in K.S.A.

 

[HC_79]

Tesla earned a PHD in missing market target dates and they just pulled in 70K orders for the new Y this past month projecting 1.1M units for 2025, they fumbled the CT launch, the Roadster launch and the 3 took forever to come to market. SpaceX has a better target date launch accuracy! I wouldn't make deliver dates the only measure of success, that new factory in Saudi is going to be a huge asset for LUCID, they may have import workers from China or the Philippines, but once it gets going it should be a huge success as they don't have to deal with the environmental bureaucracy in K.S.A.

I would argue that when Tesla actually goes into production though, they deliver. Lucid did its whole dog and pony show about Gravity production and deliveries in December yet where are they? Even their own stores don’t even know when they’re getting them.

 

[TeslaOG]

I would argue that when Tesla actually goes into production though, they deliver. Lucid did its whole dog and pony show about Gravity production and deliveries in December yet where are they? Even their own stores don’t even know when they’re getting them.

I waited 4 years for a CT, then cancelled when they missed the specs and got a Ford F150 Lightning Platinum, I am still waiting on the Roadster. It's frustrating, but it's a free market, vote with your dollars.

Its true once TMC goes to production they crank them out, witness all the QA issues for the BETA testers...

 

[gladtbx]

Tesla earned a PHD in missing market target dates and they just pulled in 70K orders for the new Y this past month projecting 1.1M units for 2025, they fumbled the CT launch, the Roadster launch and the 3 took forever to come to market. SpaceX has a better target date launch accuracy! I wouldn't make deliver dates the only measure of success, that new factory in Saudi is going to be a huge asset for LUCID, they may have import workers from China or the Philippines, but once it gets going it should be a huge success as they don't have to deal with the environmental bureaucracy in K.S.A.

Ideally Luci should learn from others' mistakes on missing delivery deadline.
Realistically the paper launch of all products seem a norm nowadays. As a consumer I really hate the trend.

 

[TeslaOG]

Ideally Luci should learn from others' mistakes on missing delivery deadline.
Realistically the paper launch of all products seem a norm nowadays. As a consumer I really hate the trend.

You have to realize the audience for the pitch isn't just for the consumer, it's for the investors to continue to have confidence to dump $B's into the development of the company. I hate it but it's a necessary evil of the free market and where LUCID is in their lifecycle as an emerging manufacturer.

 

[borski]

Ideally Luci should learn from others' mistakes on missing delivery deadline.

And if they were the same company, they might.

Building a new vehicle, especially an EV, from scratch, in a brand new factory, etc., is a very complicated problem. I think we can find agreement and common ground there.

I do not say that to imply some sort of superficial defense; I say it to mean that there are likely hundreds of thousands (at least!) of individual things that can go wrong. Where one manufacturer may have screwed up a few hundred of those, a different one may find a different hundred to screw up.

So you learn from the mistakes others have made, as best you can; but the implication of what most people mean when they say this is:
a) that the set of all mistakes has been previously made by others, and,
b) that all mistakes, once made, are avoidable in some way.

But neither of those assertions is necessarily true:
a) when you are making brand new things, especially ones that have not been invented before, you open up a whole new surface area of new mistakes to make, and,
b) a manufacturer cannot control all factors; suppliers can be delayed, a new president can impose huge tariffs on steel and aluminum, a factory might catch fire, etc.

Clearly not all mistakes are avoidable, even if they have been made before, either.

I do hope they are learning both from the mistakes others have made and from their own. There are tons to learn from.

This forum (I am not talking about you specifically, I promise) has a really bad habit of forming arguments based on the really common logical fallacy of personal incredulity. This comes up when discussing software (“how hard is it to just add a button here?!”), logistics, battery mechanics, etc.

“Complex subjects like [building an EV, or building software at scale], require some amount of understanding before one is able to make an informed judgement about the subject at hand; this fallacy is usually used in place of that understanding.”

 

[gladtbx]

And if they were the same company, they might.

Building a new vehicle, especially an EV, from scratch, in a brand new factory, etc., is a very complicated problem. I think we can find agreement and common ground there.

I do not say that to imply some sort of superficial defense; I say it to mean that there are likely hundreds of thousands (at least!) of individual things that can go wrong. Where one manufacturer may have screwed up a few hundred of those, a different one may find a different hundred to screw up.

So you learn from the mistakes others have made, as best you can; but the implication of what most people mean when they say this is:
a) that the set of all mistakes has been previously made by others, and,
b) that all mistakes, once made, are avoidable in some way.

But neither of those assertions is necessarily true:
a) when you are making brand new things, especially ones that have not been invented before, you open up a whole new surface area of new mistakes to make, and,
b) a manufacturer cannot control all factors; suppliers can be delayed, a new president can impose huge tariffs on steel and aluminum, a factory might catch fire, etc.

Clearly not all mistakes are avoidable, even if they have been made before, either.

I do hope they are learning both from the mistakes others have made and from their own. There are tons to learn from.

This forum (I am not talking about you specifically, I promise) has a really bad habit of forming arguments based on the really common logical fallacy of personal incredulity. This comes up when discussing software (“how hard is it to just add a button here?!”), logistics, battery mechanics, etc.

“Complex subjects like [building an EV, or building software at scale], require some amount of understanding before one is able to make an informed judgement about the subject at hand; this fallacy is usually used in place of that understanding.”

I agree to what you said.
But if Lucid stick to their word of only open to orders when they are ready to start production, they could have (or should have imo) pushed the opening of orders.
I am not saying there should be no waiting time. Even if there are only 20 Gravities rolling down the production line every month, I am fine with it.

With the information seen here (and lack of from Lucid), I can only assume there are only 9 Gravity produced, and then the production paused. This may not be true, but because the lack of communication from Lucid, this is what I feel as a customer.

Produce a new vehicle is hard. There could be million things that can go wrong. So imo the lesson here is to sort those issues out, make sure you can at least pump one car down the line each day, before opening orders.

 

[borski]

I agree to what you said.
But if Lucid stick to their word of only open to orders when they are ready to start production, they could have (or should have imo) pushed the opening of orders.
I am not saying there should be no waiting time. Even if there are only 20 Gravities rolling down the production line every month, I am fine with it.

With the information seen here (and lack of from Lucid), I can only assume there are only 9 Gravity produced, and then the production paused. This may not be true, but because the lack of communication from Lucid, this is what I feel as a customer.

Produce a new vehicle is hard. There could be million things that can go wrong. So imo the lesson here is to sort those issues out, make sure you can at least pump one car down the line each day, before opening orders.

I agree with almost everything you said. My only caveat is that I don’t have the context, and that *might* be important. I don’t know.

I do agree that the communication needs improvement, and the radio silence (even if for a really good reason, potentially) is a bad look.

 

[gladtbx]

I agree with almost everything you said. My only caveat is that I don’t have the context, and that *might* be important. I don’t know.

I do agree that the communication needs improvement, and the radio silence (even if for a really good reason, potentially) is a bad look.

I used to travel by train when I was a kid. One thing I learnt from my mom is that, as long as the train is moving, no matter how slow it is, the passengers are usually calm, because they know even if there is delay, they are slowly approaching their destination.

It is the stop with no explanation that irritates people. The train could stop for just a couple minutes, or it could stop for hours. It is the uncertainty that gets people.

Good thing is the reservation fee is refundable so we are free to jump trains should there comes another one.