Gravity Orders Discussion

[hmp10]

Remember all the discussions about why Lucid wasn't going to take reservations for the Gravity but instead only take orders?

Well, it turns out one thing is the other in this case.

In opening up orders, here's the deal:

- A $1,000 deposit gets you a place in queue
- the deposit is refundable up until a final order is configured
- no delivery date is given, or even a range of delivery dates, and at least one senior Lucid executive (Eric Bach) says delivery start will be dependent on an outside party's decision (i. e., the finalizing of agreement with Tesla to open the Supercharger network to Lucid)
- EPA ranges of the wheel option chosen are not yet released for two of the options
- one of the colors will not be available until an unspecified "late availability" date
- Lucid sales advisors cannot give any information about the Gravity, its options, or your "order" that is not found on the Lucid website.

Could someone please explain to me how this is any different from placing a reservation? It certainly looks pretty much like the situation when I placed an Air reservation many moons ago.

This whole "we're only going to take orders to be certain of this and that" logic seems to be more a marketing stratagem for the Gravity than any real difference with the Air rollout.

 

[steveairgt]

I wonder now that the Trump admin. is dropping the EV tax credits and other EV policies, will Tesla have less incentive to open up their network to other companies? Maybe that issue is still in play?

 

[hmp10]

Since Musk will be running a large swath of the U.S. government (while raking in gigantic government contracts), we'll know soon enough.

I really hope Bach's comment reported by "InsideEVs", if he actually made it, turns out to be wrong. The more Lucid ties anything it does to what Tesla is doing, the more worrisome.

Thank goodness the Saudis own most of Lucid and seem to have a long-term interest in supporting it, as there will be limits to how much U.S. policymakers want to step on Saudi toes.

 

[hydbob]

Since Musk will be running a large swath of the U.S. government (while raking in gigantic government contracts), we'll know soon enough.

I really hope Bach's comment reported by "InsideEVs", if he actually made it, turns out to be wrong. The more Lucid ties anything it does to what Tesla is doing, the more worrisome.

Thank goodness the Saudis own most of Lucid and seem to have a long-term interest in supporting it, as there will be limits to how much U.S. policymakers want to step on Saudi toes.

No matter what you think Lucid is stuck now with NACS for the foreseeable future. We've had many pages going back and forth on this topic, let's not rehash it.

 

[hmp10]

No matter what you think Lucid is stuck now with NACS for the foreseeable future. We've had many pages going back and forth on this topic, let's not rehash it.

I'm not talking about the plug standard, which I know is a done deal. And I actually support a standardized plug for the U.S., just as exists in Europe. (Early on in the NACS discussion, I was one of the posters who felt Rawlinson should just get on with it along with Ford, GM, etc.) What I'm questioning is why Lucid should delay Gravity deliveries until the Supercharger network opens up to Lucid, as Eric Bach said. That seems to be putting a decision about the Gravity launch in Elon Musk's hands and for which I see no reason.

Aren't adapters available that will allow a NACS vehicle to charge at a CCS station?

 

[Adnillien]

Aren't adapters available that will allow a NACS vehicle to charge at a CCS station?

I think that the current adapters are rated to 500V not 1000V. They are "probably OK", but I don't want to test it on my Gravity.

 

[Adnillien]

Aren't adapters available that will allow a NACS vehicle to charge at a CCS station?

In the OOS Gravity thread, Nick Twork said that an adapter would come with Gravity. Hence, I agree there is no reason to delay Gravity for the Tesla network. I took Eric Bach's comment to mean that the Tesla network was opening to Lucid very soon.

 

[hmp10]

I think that the current adapters are rated to 500V not 1000V. They are "probably OK", but I don't want to test it on my Gravity.

So CCS chargers, such as Electrify America and others, won't be usable for a Gravity until a higher-capacity adapter comes out or those stations convert to NACS plugs?

 

[hmp10]

In the OOS Gravity thread, Nick Twork said that an adapter would come with Gravity. Hence, I agree there is no reason to delay Gravity for the Tesla network. I took Eric Bach's comment to mean that the Tesla network was opening to Lucid very soon.

Oh, okay. So CCS chargers will be usable from the outset with the Gravity.

I just hope Bach is right if he's assuming the Tesla network will open to Lucid soon if Lucid, for some convoluted marketing reason, thinks the Gravity shouldn't launch until it can use Superchargers. That really doesn't say much for Lucid's decision not to put a NACS plug on new Air production units, though.

 

[tonybot]

Oh, okay. So CCS chargers will be usable from the outset with the Gravity.

I just hope Bach is right if he's assuming the Tesla network will open to Lucid soon if Lucid, for some convoluted marketing reason, thinks the Gravity shouldn't launch until it can use Superchargers. That really doesn't say much for Lucid's decision not to put a NACS plug on new Air production units, though.

Did we find a source for Bach actually making that comment? It was rumored to be an earnings call which wasn’t true. Wonder if he actually made the comment or was it taken out of context. I don’t think Peter alluded to anything like this in his recent interviews.

 

[DeaneG]

..I just hope Bach is right if he's assuming the Tesla network will open to Lucid soon if Lucid, for some convoluted marketing reason, thinks the Gravity shouldn't launch until it can use Superchargers. That really doesn't say much for Lucid's decision not to put a NACS plug on new Air production units, though.

Modifying a vehicle to use NACS involves more than mounting a different connector. A pretty big 1000V ~400A contactor (relay) is also needed, with control logic, so a redesign of the Air's already-tight Wunderbox. Maybe later in a product refresh, not soon IMO.

 

[hmp10]

Did we find a source for Bach actually making that comment? It was rumored to be an earnings call which wasn’t true. Wonder if he actually made the comment or was it taken out of context. I don’t think Peter alluded to anything like this in his recent interviews.

I found the comment again referred to in an "InsideEVs" article to which I posted a link. That article said it came from an interview they did with Bach.

Here's the link again:

https://insideevs.com/news/744393/lucid-gravity-production-eric-bach/

 

[hmp10]

Modifying a vehicle to use NACS involves more than mounting a different connector. A pretty big 1000V ~400A contactor (relay) is also needed, with control logic, so a redesign of the Air's already-tight Wunderbox. Maybe later in a product refresh, not soon IMO.

Yeah, I have the feeling the Air is going to move to the back burner at Lucid pretty much as the Model S did at Tesla. Lucid is still a relatively small organization for the ambitious goals they have in their sights, so it's understandable.

At least the Air is so far ahead of the EV sedan competition that a few stalls aren't likely to unseat it from the automotive engineering pinnacle it occupies for a good while yet.

 

[Batteryman]

No matter what you think Lucid is stuck now with NACS for the foreseeable future. We've had many pages going back and forth on this topic, let's not rehash it.

I'm in that school that the dumb cowardly decision by Ford and GM started this......other manufacturers had no choice but to follow. Great one detroit, handing your poker cards to Musk...they could have just chugged along as non-Tesla network improves, but no, they had sell their incompetent EV's.

 

[Batteryman]

Yeah, I have the feeling the Air is going to move to the back burner at Lucid pretty much as the Model S did at Tesla. Lucid is still a relatively small organization for the ambitious goals they have in their sights, so it's understandable.

At least the Air is so far ahead of the EV sedan competition that a few stalls aren't likely to unseat it from the automotive engineering pinnacle it occupies for a good while yet.

Gravity software coming to the Air I heard. Air will probably get a significant update after the midsize ramp.

 

[WeighingGravity]

From that inside EVs article:

"It’s also been conducting testing with Tesla Superchargers, seeing as the Gravity will ship from the factory with Tesla’s previously exclusive charging port design. (It’s one of the first such models since the entire auto industry announced it would migrate to Tesla’s plug.)

Lucid hasn’t officially announced access to Tesla’s charging network for its owners, but Bach says that will happen in advance of the first Gravity deliveries. "

Maybe there's a different part of the article that you're referencing, but I don't read this as Bach saying deliveries are constrained by supercharger access. I read it as him predicting that it will be done soon.

 

[DeaneG]

I'm in that school that the dumb cowardly decision by Ford and GM started this......other manufacturers had no choice but to follow. Great one detroit, handing your poker cards to Musk...they could have just chugged along as non-Tesla network improves, but no, they had sell their incompetent EV's.

It may still have been a reasonable move. If Tesla opens their network to Lucid, wonderful. If not, there are adapters while existing CCS charging stations migrate to NACS.

 

[msaunders9430]

I found the comment again referred to in an "InsideEVs" article to which I posted a link. That article said it came from an interview they did with Bach.

Here's the link again:

https://insideevs.com/news/744393/lucid-gravity-production-eric-bach/

Yeah, I have the feeling the Air is going to move to the back burner at Lucid pretty much as the Model S did at Tesla. Lucid is still a relatively small organization for the ambitious goals they have in their sights, so it's understandable.

At least the Air is so far ahead of the EV sedan competition that a few stalls aren't likely to unseat it from the automotive engineering pinnacle it occupies for a good while yet.

It's hard to get an accurate interpretation of what the article is quoting Bach as saying.

An announcement about access to the Tesla network will happen before Gravity deliveries begin.

• Does that mean the announcement alone or the actual access to the network? We don't know.
• How necessary is the announcement or even the access occuring prior to the start of deliveries? We don't know.
• Will the adapter provided with a Gravity be sufficient to be used at chargers outside the Tesla network? I would think so in order to minimize dependency on a competitor's network, but we don't know.

Statements can be made, but circumstances and actions can change, as warranted by Lucid.
These articles that are based on interviews with Lucid executives are informative, but we probably should temper our reliance on a different level of reliance than an official Lucid statement posted by an actual Lucid executive. It's challenging because we all are hanging on every word. And with @hmp10, our Chief Worry Officer, I have every bit of confidence, we won't miss any concerns. That's a compliment @hmp10. Every group/organization needs a balance of optimism, realisim, and informed skepticism.

 

[steveairgt]

So CCS chargers, such as Electrify America and others, won't be usable for a Gravity until a higher-capacity adapter comes out or those stations convert to NACS plugs?

If this is true that could be a deal breaker for many if you can’t charge at a super charger or the high power EA network.

 

[DeaneG]

If this is true that could be a deal breaker for many if you can’t charge at a super charger or the high power EA network.

It's not true. See above.